which turbo kit for s14 automatic?

[671spiritracing]

yes I'm gonna keep my car auto, so plese no "swap the transmission comments". I was wondering which kit would be better or can work with an automatic the Greddy kit or the Turbonetics? I have read that the Greddy kit with the emanage will work fine with the auto transmission, but haven't heard anything about the turbonetics management system. I like the turbonetics because it has a ball bearing system, but if anyone can shed some ight on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

[turbo2nr]

both kits should have no effect on the auto transmission, thats not a big factor. the turbo kit will preform for the mostpart the same...

your choice

[WDRacing]

Both will mount up...it really depends on your preference. The best thing to do, would be to post a link to both kits you're looking at...or do we have to track down every kit made by each and try to figure out what you want??

WD

[671spiritracing]

Thanks for all the replies. I thought that the EMS system that cam with the turbonetics kit wouldn't work with the automatic ecu. Here are the links that I could find for the kits.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1V

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

[turbo2nr]

you would spend alot less putting a kit together yourself.. dont spend 4g on a turbo kit....

i peiced together a pretty good kit (imo better then turbonetics kit for 1400 and its more potient)

alot of people are doing this and seeing good gains, its just a headach some times having to fab up custom parts for your setup... but i rather fab some parts up them pay1-2g more for someone else to put something simple together..

my 0.02

[WDRacing]

Show me a kit for 1400 and I'll show you parts that are waiting to fail and were made in China. Turbonetics makes a great product. $4000 aint that much for a bolt kit that has everything. Trust me, I'd done the fabrication thing before, I've also done the piece **** together stuff before.

Buy the kit...

[Edub1]

A kit will certainly save a lot of time and hassle. I'd see what boost level these are designed for as they don't mention upgraded injectors or MAF. My guess is that they use a fuel pressure regulator and that BTM for a low boost app.

You'll want larger injectors, a Z32 MAF and an exhaust.

[671spiritracing]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I can go at this in two ways. Buy the Greddy kit, then upgrade later with an intercooler when the funds arive, or I can go with the whole kit from turbonetics. What is the difference between the two turbo's? I know that turbonetics is a ball bearing, but what else. I am not looking to make excessive hp, since this will be on an automatic.

[turbo2nr]

when i say $1400 kit i dont mean a ssa kit..

i peiced togeher my kit form parts people had for sale. i concider them pretty hi quality. im pretty sure all my parts will not fail..

[aquaman]

If you haven't already check out enjuku racing (one of our sponsors). They have the Greddy kit (right now) for 2900 plus shipping. Cheaper than the auction and comes from one of our sponsors FTW.

[GEO]

get the iap kit... its gpot a good turbo size for the auto ... .48 a/r and .57 trim on a t3/t4 hybird.. I know cause I have been driving one for well over a year.

[671spiritracing]

If you haven't already check out enjuku racing (one of our sponsors). They have the Greddy kit (right now) for 2900 plus shipping. Cheaper than the auction and comes from one of our sponsors FTW.

I forgot to mention that I am a parts dealer and can get parts at dealer prices.

get the iap kit... its gpot a good turbo size for the auto ... .48 a/r and .57 trim on a t3/t4 hybird.. I know cause I have been driving one for well over a year.

Is there a link where I can see the IAP kit? i have never heard of them before.

[Edub1]

Did you read my post?

How much HP are you looking for? Those kits will by no means have everything you need if you are looking to go much over 200HP.

A good low cost setup would start with a manifold, super 60 turbo with internal waste gate, Ebay intercooler (see my post), 460 injectors, a Z32 MAF and some type of tuning.

The afformentioned kits have no injector or MAF upgrade and little or no tuning management. Are you E or DE?

[WDRacing]

I'd also start with a turbo that has room to grow. A straight T3 is to small, super 60 or not.

Buying a kit is a good thing, as long as you know you're going to need upgrades if you're going to want big boost/power.

[Sukesada]

The GReddy kit does include new 370 cc injectors and a pre-programmed eManage to handle the fuel situation. The Turbonetics kits includes the same size injectors, but no fuel controller.

It also includes an intercooler, wastegate and BOV - all lacking in the GReddy kit.

The Turbonetics kit comes with a 1 year no fault warranty (repair, not refund, it looks like from their website), while the GReddy kit is evidently non-refundable (some, but not all sites indicate this) and I am not clear on whether there is a warranty (I've seen a reference to a 1 year warranty, but no details).

The GReddy kit is CARB legal and the Turbonetics kit is not.

The GReddy kit runs ~$2600 to $2900 and another $700 for the FMIC kit. The Turbonetics runs about $3500 to $3900, so they are similar in price.

This question is very interesting to me because I am mulling over the same decision. I want a bolt-on form of forced induction: either conventional supercharger or turbo-supercharger. While there are some belt-driven and electric superchargers specifically designed for the KA24DE (namely the Eaton M62), bolt-on kits that don't entail permanent engine mods are either nonexistant or possibly the Knight kit is of that type (although that kit seems to evolve with an uncomfortable frequency and apparently involves some engine mods). The turbo kits seem to be the most straight-forward option and at least have prominent developers with reputations to consider.

My mechanic has warned me off of home-made turbo set-ups. That's fine for a DIY tuner who has another car to drive and free labor. At $60 per hour shop time, its a non-starter. I need something that can be done in a day or two because its my only vehicle. I am also not looking for some kind of strip monster to impress the young folks or do some midnight drifting in research park. I'm way too old for that and the hotties don't go for 40-somethings even if they have a sick ride. I just want more passing authority when cruising on the highway.

I've already put in a GReddy EVO TT cat back, but I have held off on the intake until I decide about a supercharger / turbocharger because the kits come with intakes.

And, incidentally guys, if you literally know absolutely nothing whatsoever about the question don't burden us with having to wade through your opinions in order to finally deduce that. Experience is golden. Conjecture is of dubious value. That's a common problem on all forums and I'm not pointing a finger at anyone specifically. We all do it. Just a thought.

[WDRacing]

Welcome to Nico and KAT. I must say for a first post, yours was one of the best I've seen so far. You are on the money when it comes to opinions vs applied knowledge.

The IAP Kits, Greddy Kits and Turbonetics kits all offer a similar setup for a fairly close price comparison.

I personally don't like the Emanage unit that comes with the Greddy kit. If it were the Emanage Ultimate, then I'd back that kit in a second. Perhaps a deal can be arranged for a few extra bucks.

Here's the best "kit" for sale at the moment. Only because it's the most complete in my opinion. This is a bolt on kit, no tuning required and every parts is quality.

http://www.import-autoperforma....html

Hal at 41...is your heart still up for boost...lol sorry man, couldn't resist

[Sukesada]

I've been reading these Nissan and 240SX forums religiously for weeks now, looking for insights regarding forced induction, exhaust, intake, and other street mods that are worthwhile for improved performance and handling characteristics.

I love the KA. My mechanic first suggested that I consider a swap for an SR or even an RB, but that would be like a soul transplant. When she dies, I'll consider reincarnation, but not before. Besides with the XTerra and Altima using the KA, I should be able to grab a low mileage engine for years to come. The 240SX is a classic and I intend to drive my girl until she's a legal antique (2023) and then some. My best friend got 280K miles on his Maxima and then sold it for $2500. I've babied mine through 133K and I can see no reason why another 130K+ isn't there.

Things I have observed in reading these forums:

Most pundits agree that it costs far more and is a lot more difficult to get meaningful gains in power from NA mods to the KA than by going with forced induction. By the time that you include all the parts and the tuning involved, its a major undertaking.

The virulence of despite for electric superchargers is simply breathtaking, but almost none of these haters has any first hand knowledge of the subject, particularly as it relates to the 240SX. That combination of vehemence and ignorance I really cannot abide. These people seem to become hysterical over the mere existence of a thread discussing a subject that they consider closed - even though their knowledge of the subject is at best second hand and very limited in scope. You see that in all kinds of forums. I think psychiatry should examine online behaviors for new sub-classifications of obsession neuroses.

Most pundits agree that 6 - 8 psi boost about the most that stock engines can take without some serious tuning.

Most agree that the fuel controller is mainly what needs correction, not so much the engine guts, which are frequently touted as being surprisingly robust. Somewhere around 300 hp most pundits contend that you need to start considering internals (pistons, rods, cams, etc.), although the views differ greatly as to what is weaker or stronger and at what point you should be concerned. I am staying out of that territory, so I really don't care.

Opinions differ over whether you need an intercooler for low boost, ~200 - 225 hp conversions. My mechanic says going turbo without FMIC is not worth the effort. I am concerned about adequate engine cooling with a big IC blocking the radiator, but I haven't seen much discussion of that topic. I am far more concerned about overheating the engine than overheating the turbo or losing some fraction of thermal efficiency.

No one seems to have much to say on the subject of fuel efficiency post-turbo. I got 29 mpg HWY before the EVO TT was installed. I haven't checked it since. In theory it should improve slightly, as would be true for the intake. But a turbo that draws more fuel to compensate for more air will get worse mileage - at least while under boost. On the other hand, a turbo-supercharger is more efficient in producing power and should get you going faster with less fuel than a naturally aspirated engine (ie, the time under acceleration will be less). So, I wonder if it will be about the same or conspicuously worse? Again, I am talking about normal driving with no changes.

There's an online article for the GReddy kit, so I guess that counts, but I'd like to see an install writeup by someone who isn't afraid of losing ad money from a major sponsor. You know? I haven't yet seen a case of someone installing a Turbonetics kit.

PS-- Thanks for the welcome WD!

Modified by Sukesada at 4:42 PM 11/25/2006
Modified by Sukesada at 5:51 PM 11/25/2006

[671spiritracing]

Did you read my post?

How much HP are you looking for? Those kits will by no means have everything you need if you are looking to go much over 200HP.

A good low cost setup would start with a manifold, super 60 turbo with internal waste gate, Ebay intercooler (see my post), 460 injectors, a Z32 MAF and some type of tuning.

The afformentioned kits have no injector or MAF upgrade and little or no tuning management. Are you E or DE?

I am not looking to become a track king or a speeed demon. I am just looking for a little extra zing in the car. I think between the two kits, the greddy seems to be a bit more bang for the buck. I know that my automatic transmission limits how much hp/performance that I can make out of the turbo, but that is something that I am not worried about. I have a KA24DE
Modified by 671spiritracing at 5:16 PM 11/25/2006

[Florida240sx]

A good turbo kit under the hood $2000-2500 Then add in your wideband and ecu/piggyback and gauges. and Clutch. I say get a revhard mani and go from there. OR wait a Bit for AMS to release their kit

[671spiritracing]

SUKESADA....Welcome!!!! I like your responses and insight to the questoins and post on this thread. At 31, I don't feel like the oldest person here (i'm sorry, I had to just let that out).

In regards to the Greddy kit not having a wastegate, BOV, and intercooler. I believe that the Greddy kit has an internal wastegate (someone correct me if I am wrong). The intercooler and BOV and MAF can be purchsed seperately which I am not worried about.

I think the turbonetics kit is too new and some people may not have the funds for the complete kit readily available. I do remember a install and write up being done in super street some time back.

You have lots of pundits and I agree with them all.

I am going to take this task slowly. I have just finished bringing my brake system back to life after some down time. My next move is going to replace my blown suspension set up with either stance or TEIN hyperflex suspension. I will be going with a tanabe exhaust and the only thing internal will probably be a set of BC cams.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am learning some great infomation on the web site. Keep it coming.

[Sukesada]

No need to apologize... 40 is the new 30. At almost 42 I am having a blast and can finally afford to do some of the things I dreamed about in my teens and 20s.

I am going to search for info on that AMS kit. Had not heard of that one.

[WDRacing]

I hit 32 on the 29th...I still look at all the same girls I used to...although they don't always look back

The AMS kit will be awhile in coming and will be expensive when it does come. But they make a VERY quality product. The manifold is the best one made, or will be when it goes on sale. The guys who run AMS all know what they're talking about and they sponsor a drag car. Which happens to be a buddy of mine...oh, did I mention it was also the fastest KAT in the world, yeah it is.

WD

[Edub1]

I thought I was the old guy around here at 39. WD I was just thinking about how fewer smiles I get these days. Young hotties do in fact go for old guys in flashy cars though. That's what Corvettes are for.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Having done a DIY turbo I can definitly say that a kit is going to save quite a bit of time. However, for what you are looking to do and given that you are paying a mechanic to do it, I'd go with an SR swap no contest. Your biggest factor is your mechanic's time at $60/Hr. Having done it, a turbo upgrade is no small task and the labor will probably be more than you think. Even an SR swap is going to be a 2 day job.

As for electric turbos, most people here understand enough about how turbos work the physics involved to know that they don't work. There is one that attaches a true turbo to an electric motor. The current draw is so huge that it can only provide boost for brief periods and then must wait untill it's array of batteries recharges. Electric is not a viable option at this time.

[Sukesada]

My reasons for not doing a swap are mainly sentimental, partly practical. I have taken excellent care of this engine, so I know its in great shape. I know nothing about the maintenance history of a swap clip. Also I have a depression-era parenting complex about wasting anything, so I can't bring myself to pull a perfectly good engine. I agree with the economics and the argument about all the aftermarket mods. The SR is also the "correct" engine for the 240SX apparently, but despite my analytical, logical side I have an intuitive, emotional side and its rebelling at the thought.

Having investigated the electric superchargers I think they are probably too awkward. Feasible, but not quite ready for prime time. It requires significant additional battery capacity and some fairly sophisticated charging and/or switching arrangements. Getting that right would be beyond the experience of most mechanics and I am no EE. I am not crazy about giving up my trunk volume for extra batteries and I'm not convinced that the optimum solution has been worked out. Its a bit kludgy for my taste. When hybrids begin to dominate, then it will become the norm. You heard it here first.

BTW, I have concluded that men continue to notice gorgeous girls - no matter how old we get! Its just disheartening when they call you "Sir". LOL

[WDRacing]

I assume since you're an engineer we're thinking along the same lines when you say "electric supercharger". They had a nice display at SEMA two years ago. They had to versions mounted to a table with standalone batteries..etc. One was a T3 compressor that pushed 8 lbs of boost, the other was T4 of a trim I can't remember, which was putting out 14lbs IIRC. I was very impressed, because I'm into drag racing and having a the benefit of instant boost without the parasitic loss of a roots style SC or refilling of N2O bottles was interesting to say the least. I never looked into it further though after SEMA. I don't even know of anyone using that setup. I was thinking about using the T3 compressor which would allow me to run a HUGE turbo without the awful lag I currently experience.

Do you have any info on these, are they even the same thing you're referring to?

WD

[Sukesada]

Mainly what I've seen is being promoted by Geoff Knight, but he's got at least three configurations, so its a bit confusing since the site doesn't clearly distinguish or provide much in the way of detail. One of the three is an electric supercharger, but I don't know if its a modified turbo or a straight centrifugal SC with an electric motor. I think the latter. He also has a belt driven turbo and an Eaton supercharger. The Eaton may actually be a good option, depending on the nature of the kit. The only install I have seen so far required some additional engine mods to make it work (like rerouting all the pulleys with a new pulley mount plate that the owner made himself). That's hardly a bolt-on. There are no photos or installation instructions or descriptions to make a judgment. The other problem with the Eaton type is that I think its always engaged. No mention of a clutch so far. That would mean more power at all engine speeds, but also worse fuel efficiency across the board.

Of course, there is the eRam... that thing has most of the downside of the "real" thing and provides only 1 psi boost. Some dispute even that, but I give them the benefit of the doubt since they have dyno data. I just think its a bit of a jury-rig and only amounts to 5 - 7 hp. And like others, I am spooked by the thought of that plastic impeller going to pieces at 10,000 rpm and getting sucked into the throttle. They say it should last 20 years in 10 second bursts, but that assumes that something doesn't go wrong with the switch and it stays on too long, overheats and lets go. I suppose there is a small risk like that with a supercharger and turbo as well, but at least they are made of metal and better handle the heat and stress.
Modified by Sukesada at 10:59 AM 11/26/2006

[WDRacing]

I'm pretty up to speed on the M62 Eaton install. Thats the SC from the Xterra, I believe its the same article you're thinking of. I was considering it for quite some time. Again, instant boost would allow great daily driving and give me the option of running a very large turbo for drag racing.

I'm familiar with Knight, I've been reading some of his stuff for years now. I've never found him to be on the up and up. My gut is usually correct about these things.

I was looking at rigging a KenneBell blower awhile back, but the used units are very expensive, without mentioning the fabrication cost..etc. So I bailed out on that idea.

WD

[Sukesada]

What do you think about DIY with the Eaton M62? Too much work involved in the conversion? I don't want to sacrifice AC. That fact that its done on the XTerra (and the Frontier?) is encouraging, but really implies nothing more than that the thing will bolt up to the engine. Apparently, there is just enough space to do it, but the pulley mounting seems to be the trick. I saw one guy do it himself, but he had to make all the adapters starting with the mount plate and it was a non-trivial undertaking. Its all starting to run together in my head, so I can't recall who did what to which engine for which install.

Right now I am probably leaning toward the GReddy turbo kit, although I could be persuaded differently. The Turbonetics kit may be safer, unless the GReddy does indeed have an internal wastegate. I think I want a mechanical backup to the electronics in case they fail. Its no guarantee that the thing won't run too lean or overboost, maybe, but it may minimize the damage. Thoughts on that score? Is there a way to rig a mechanical FMU in with the eManage? I'd like the wastegate set to about 8 psi, but most people I've seen comment have run at around 10 psi for a nominal 6 psi of boost (no statistical significance to that observation, BTW). Maybe with 370 cc injectors and reliable fuel control, running 10 psi is not dangerous. Is it advised to have a boost gauge and/or O2 sensor for even these bolt-on kits? I don't know how else you would ever know if something had failed or the settings had drifted off the design spec.

It amazes me that there aren't more people out there who have used these kits. I guess most KA-Ts are DIY projects.

[Sukesada]

I just looked at the installation instructions for the GReddy turbo kit at their website. Other than welding the oil line to the oil pan and cutting the factory fuel lines to install the new parts, I did not catch any permanent modifications. However, I did see that GReddy pointedly disavows any warranty of any kind on this kit. No repair or replacement on parts or anything. While it looks very benign, for that reason I am now leaning toward Turbonetics. I recall seeing their installation instructions somewhere, so I am off to read them.

[Edub1]

I'd go for the Turbonetics due to the FMIC and pipes. It does come with a BTM to pull timing but you'll probably want to get a Bikirom anyway. Getting your IC pipes and down pipe in there is tough. I'm on my second attempt to fab a DP.

And a sweet ball bearing T3/T4 turbo. What does the Greddy come with?