Which car should I test drive?

[ZPmadA]

What about VW GTI? Excellent chassis and one of the safest cars out there. A chip gets you into the 14s with the 1.8T.

[jdmfreak]

Reliability. He on a limited budget. No money for repairs and probably cant afford the downtime if his 240 is down as well due to what ever he's planning on doing to it.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I vote Mazdaspeed Miata.

Amen. Just get a new FMIC or bumper so it doesn't look like a teething baby.

[BadMojo]

I miss voted. Meant to vote Redline, take away one from ScionTc and give to to Ion Redline

Fred..

OK, Fred...you win! Actually, I drove a Saturn Ion Redline today since the Saturn dealer was very close to where I live.

So, we've got this:



Luckily, the base model comes with a much more subdued rear spoiler. The one I drove had an optional sunroof and floor mats. I'm not sure when this trend started, but I still can't figure out why I have to pay $80 extra for mats.

The Seats

To start off with, the Recaro seats *are* wonderful. I'm 6'2" and about 210lbs and they were a perfect fit. They look cool and the bolsters hold you in but aren't so high that they keep you from reaching around in the cabin. They seem well made, they're height adjustable and felt very firm. They seem a nice mixture between sporty and comfortable. Best of all, they say Recaro on 'em! Honestly, I think for everyday use they're a superior seat to the "Viper inspired" seats that come with the SRT-4.



The Outside

The exterior of the car is fairly non-descript with the stock spoiler. It looks pretty much like any other Ion quad coupe. The optional spoiler is a bit much, in my opinion, though not it's nearly as gaudy as the SRT-4 wang. I still suspect it would obscure visibility through the rear window (which is otherwise excellent).

The 17" alloys are shiny 6-spoke things that honestly didn't do much for me visually. Really, the only clues that this is a more than a normal Ion are the shiny little exhaust tip, the alloys, the 4 wheel disc brakes peeking out from behind said wheels, a slightly lower stance and a pretty cool little Redline logo.

The Inside

The interior was, unfortunately, pretty standard for GM other than the seats. Switches and air vents felt cheap. I didn't mess around with the various storage compartments, but I'd wager they would feel the same.

IMO, the center mounted gauge panel is a design disaster. The white-faced gauges are pretty much par for the course in sporty compacts and look nice enough. The whole thing is really ruined by some very odd gauge placement. Not only is the whole pod center mounted, the tach was on the far right so to look at the tach or speedometer you have to look away from the road towards the passenger side of the car. The water temp and fuel gauge are on the left. I would have at least preferred that the tach and fuel/water temp gauges were switched. Hell, I'd prefer to have the whole damn thing in front of me where it's supposed to be.

Doors shut with a satisfying thump, and there were no squeaks or rattles for the most part. However, with the front windows down at highway speeds (65mph), the sunroof (closed at the time) made an ominous rattling sound.

The steering wheel was actually quite nice and avoided the recent trend of wheels that look like they belong on 18-wheelers instead of compact cars. The shifter was unremarkable in appearance (all Redline Ions come only with a 5 speed Getrag gear box).

The "Go, Stop and Turn Parts"

Now, on to the important bits. Unfortunately, I was test driving this vehicle during rush hour so I was limited in how much I could really get on the car. Despite the claimed 205hp and 200 lb ft of torque, the car just didn't feel as quick as I thought it would. That's not to say it was slow. I just expected a bit more.

It also had a rather pitiful redline, ironically enough, of something like 6500 rpm. I know some professional reviews pointed out that the gearing on the Ion Redline is less than optimal. Perhaps the factory limited redline and poor gearing led to the perceived lack of power.

The car had decent "get up and go" once I managed to get in its power band, but the throttle wasn't terribly responsive. The exhaust note with the windows up was barely noticeable. With the windows down, it was a bit more high pitched and "buzzy" than I would like but the whine of the supercharger *was* satisfying.

I didn't really get a chance to drive the car hard enough to find out much about the brakes, unfortunately.

The clutch pedal was mildly stiff and felt pretty much right on; not too high and not too low. The throws on the Ion shifter were pretty short and it went in to gear with a satisfying click. One odd little quirk is that you have to lift a collar below the shift knob before you can slip the car in to reverse. I guess this is to prevent unfortunate missed shifts at high speed, but it was kind of a pain in the ***.

The car felt pretty well planted in the few corners I took it through at speed. I got a little squeal out of the tires on a highway on ramp, and I suspect it would have gently understeered had I pushed it. For the MSRP, an LSD would have been a nice addition. The ride was firm but not harsh with pretty minimal body roll.

The Verdict

At almost $21000 MSRP, I'd have to pass on this car. IMO, with the possible exception of handling this car is outdone by the Dodge SRT-4. The 3 year/36,000 miles warranty is underwhelming for a car of this price, the interior is much worse than the Dodge, it's got less power and is lacking an LSD.

It's certainly not a slow car, and I'm sure if I had the chance to drive it harder it would have been more fun. As a side note, the standard stereo that players MP3s burned on CD is a nice feature that is often an option other cars in its class. The battery located in the trunk is a nice touch too.

While I wouldn't say the Ion Redline is worth its $21K, it may be worth the approx $17K they were selling a 2004 model for. At that price, it's a hell of a bang for the buck at about $5K less than an SRT-4 and even less than the much lower powered Ford Focus ST.

If this car sold for $17-18K MSRP, I think it would be a great bargain. At $20K plus, it just doesn't quite stack up.

Next up: Mazda 3 5 Door.

[BadMojo]

2004 Mazda 3 5 Door

Shot down! They didn't let me test drive the damn thing. Now, I was up front with the sales guy and told him I wouldn't be buying a car until next Spring, most likely.

Despite the fact that they had at least a dozen Mazda 3's on the lot, he felt it was "too early" for me to test drive it. I'm quite thorough when it comes to spending close to $20K on a car, so I like to do a ton of research. For the record, I'm 30, a well-dressed professional who showed up with my fiance in tow. I am quite serious about buying a car early next year, unless something unforseen happens.

So, the best I could do was sit in the car (which was an automatic, to make things worse) and make car noises with my mouth. So, I have no idea what the would feel like on the road. I've heard that the ride is pretty sporty, and the 2.3L Duratec sounds like a competent engine.



Interior

From what I could tell, the Mazda 3 5 Door (I only glanced at the sedan). Looked like a very well engineered and assembled vehicle. The seats were comfortable, but not nearly as body-hugging as the Recaro's in the Saturn. The cloth seat material in the 5 door consisted of a black with red polka-dot motif that was, well, kind of ugly. At least it seemed durable.

Everything else in the car from switches, compartments, the moon roof seemed to have excellent fit and finish for a sub $20K car. The gauges were in front of the driver (hey, imagine that!) and had a very cool gauges set in large round...errr cup-like structures.



The Exterior

Again, excellent fit and finish. Paint jobs looked great, all body panels were very straight and tightly fitted. No Saturn-esque gaps between body panels.

The 17" wheels were nice and the 4 wheel disc brakes were absolutely *huge* for this type of car. If only I'd been able to try them out.

Anyway, so far out of two cars (Saturn Ion Redline and Mazda 3 5 Door) the Mazda is in the #1 spot even without a test drive. The thing would have to drive like complete **** to be beat out by the Saturn. Mazda also has Saturn beat by a year (4 year bumper to bumper) on the warranty.

*If* I decide to buy this car in the spring, I'll be sure to buy it from another sales guy at the dealership. I'll also bring along the other guy's business card just to make sure he knows he lost a potential sale. I have to say, that's the first time I've ever been denied a test drive on a vehicle. Very disappointing.

[Bubba1]

Nice write ups, Brad. I enjoyed reading them. I saw a valuable lesson learned from your experience with that Zoom Zoom guy. That lesson is ro never tell a salesman you're not intending to buy a car for many months. If you tell him you were "working on narrowing your choices as there are so many out there...." (which you were) you might get more cooperation and a test drive.

Good job.

[Jesda]

Strange, I always say I'm just looking and not interested in buying (which is true) and theyre eager to hand me the keys.

The gauges on the Mazda 3 are tempting me to shove a slurpee in there sideways.

[BadMojo]

Strange, I always say I'm just looking and not interested in buying (which is true) and theyre eager to hand me the keys.

The gauges on the Mazda 3 are tempting me to shove a slurpee in there sideways.

The gauges do look somewhat like cutting-edge horizontal beverage holders. Still, I like them. The fact that they change colors depending on whether it's day, night or...something else is kind of cool without being overly gimmicky.

I'm still quite shocked and somewhat pissed off about the old Mazda dude not letting my drive a Mazda 3. I'm always up front with the sales guys and never had a problem before.

Unfortunately, Subaru didn't have any 5-speed 2.5RS on the lot so I couldn't drive one. I'd like to have the opportunity to speak with any NICO members who've drive the 2.5RS and WRX and can compare either to a 240SX. I'm expecting that the 2.5RS will feel pretty much like a 240SX in terms of power and the WRX will feel a little weaker on the low end but kick *** up high.

[574-240sx]

That sucks they didn't let you test drive it. I drove my neighbors new mazda 3 a few weeks ago. It was nice but I like my maxima better even though its a 97'.

[Bubba1]

Unfortunately, Subaru didn't have any 5-speed 2.5RS on the lot so I couldn't drive one. I'd like to have the opportunity to speak with any NICO members who've drive the 2.5RS and WRX and can compare either to a 240SX. I'm expecting that the 2.5RS will feel pretty much like a 240SX in terms of power and the WRX will feel a little weaker on the low end but kick *** up high.[/QUOTE]

I've driven all 3, My neighbor owns a 2.5 RS , I used to own a 240sx, plus I've taken some hot laps at a race track in a WRX. If you're talking straight line acceleration WRX will blow the doors off a 2.5 rs or 240sx. Kinda neat when that turbo spools up (heh). But the 2.5 rs is much closer in performance to your 240sx. That is, it'll feel a bit peppy, but is actually pretty slow.

All 3 cars (2.5rs, wrx, and 240sx) have their good and bad points. If you want me to list them I will, but if you test drive them yourself, I'm sure you'll make the best decision that fits your needs. Besides. the things you want from your car is likely different from what I want from a car, so you may agree or disagree with my views.

I say, if you're not desperate to buy a car this week, then have a little patience and invest the time necessary to test drive them all. But don't be so brutally honest with car salesman. I'm not saying lie to them, just tell them what's necessary so you'll get your test drive. Think of it from the salesman's perspective for a moment. IF you were a car salesman who works on commission, would you want to spend 2 hours with a guy armed with a digital camera, and a ton of questions, who freely admits he has no intention of buying a car for several months, or would you rather wait for someone who's seriously looking to put down a deposit down today. Saturn salesmen are salaried, Mazda salesmen (and most other dealers) work on commision. That's why you got a Saturn test drive and not a Mazda test drive. Food for thought.

Enjoy

[BadMojo]

IThink of it from the salesman's perspective for a moment. IF you were a car salesman who works on commission, would you want to spend 2 hours with a guy armed with a digital camera, and a ton of questions, who freely admits he has no intention of buying a car for several months, or would you rather wait for someone who's seriously looking to put down a deposit down today.

I definitely see your point. Either way, the guy lost a potential sale. If I like the 3 and decide to buy it, it won't be from him. He was more than willing to blather on about the various compartments and storage configurations in the 3, despite the fact that I told him we (my fiance and I) aren't really concerned with hauling stuff other than a few bags of groceries.

He then proceded to talk about New Orleans for a good 10 minutes...don't ask. I saw perhaps two other people in the showroom and on the lot. It was pretty much dead since it was the middle of the afternoon on a work day (had vacation).

He just seemed like he wanted to keep his fat *** in the showroom instead of outside in the cold. Dodge and Subaru (if they had the car) would have happily let me drive the car.

Anyway, the only urgency *would* have been if I was dead set on getting the Mazda. The company I work for gets the Ford X-Plan (I think it's X) which would apply to the Mazda 3, but we're dropping the plan in favor of Daimler Chyrsler at the end of the year.

By this spring, I'll most likely be able to get a Mazda at invoice anyway, I suppose.

For the record, the good old 240SX is staying and becoming the full-time project car.

[Bubba1]

I hear you. A bad salesman can really sour one to the car buying experience. That is one of the reasons that Saturn has been so successful. Their cars are rather mediocre but their dealers with a strong positive approach to customer service results in surprisingly strong brand loyalty. I've had both good and bad experiences with car salesmen. The worst car salesman I ever encountered was at a Nissan dealership of all places. Fortunately living in a densely populated area, meant 4 other Nissan dealers within a 30 minute drive.

I have no doubt you could get a Mazda 3 at or close to invoice. Very competitive market. I was thinking that If you're in Reading, you might want to consider checking out the Philly Auto Show which I believe is coming up in January. Gives you a good opportunity to inspect all the cars you like under one roof. Plus no high pressure salesman lurking like vultures.

I actually did that when I went shopping for my wife's Altima. You could make it a fun day with your fiancee and go to a nice dinner afterward. Food for thought... and thought for food.

[Mr1der]

you should've gone to Rev It Up this year....good oppurtunity to test drive a 3 : biggrin:

three cheers for food...think I'm gonna go hunt some down as well...