When does the transmission go?

[datechboss101]

To MODS and Admins: I know there is a gigantic thread about fail-safes, whining, temps, etc., but doesn't talk about what I am actually concerned about.

So, I was wondering when I should expect the CVT to go bye-bye. In other terms, when do I need to replace the transmission? My Rogue is near 41k miles and I haven't replaced the CVT fluid at all, due to the car not coming with the transmission dip-stick to let the owner check color and level of the CVT fluid (a dumb move by Nissan). What are the signs and symptoms that shows the transmission is going out? I ask this because I am looking at roughly anywhere between adding 100k-200k miles within the next 4 years due to university.

[rowlands57]

I cannot comment on exact timing but seems that 70,000 to 90,000 would be about the average I have read about. Again, not scientific but based on a general trend - at least on the Rogues. What I would suggest is an external cooler and the addition of that accessory may actually save the transmission for the long run. It appears that heat is the primary enemy of these units and the cooler removes that from the list of potential reasons for failure.

Also, you should consider paying for the fluid change at a competent shop as it's certainly a lot less expensive than a replacement of the transmission.

[bill875]

Mine went out this month at 118,900 Miles and right before the 10 Year Warranty Extension expired on 11/15/2017. The local Nissan dealer replaced my CVT this week and my Rogue now feels like a brand new vehicle! I didn't realize just how messed up my CVT was. Note: I did have Nissan Drain/Fill the CVT Fluid somewhere between the 50-65k mile mark. I am not certain on the mileage without pulling out the paperwork.

A month ago, the car started pulsating/jerking while moving forward at idle or just above idle speeds. The sensation would go away if you pressed harder on the pedal, but it was very concerning. The techs couldn't figure it out at first and it required a call to their Tech Hotline to further diagnose the issue since codes were not being thrown. They approved the repair last Thursday and had it fixed by today, 11/22. I am very happy the repair was covered and I wasn't left with a $3500+ repair bill for the CVT. I will seriously reconsider the purchase of a Nissan (or any CVT) vehicle in the future. It just isn't worth the hassle.

[WILLDOGS]

One thing I dislike about this forum is that people talk about the rogue and issues with the transmission or other issues that a year or generation specific and they are all lumped in together.

OP has a 2016 with a newer CVT and the last reply is a person with a 2008 Rogue with transmission issues and a replacement. Two totally different cars when it comes to the transmission, but it confuses people and hard to get straight answers.

Why isn't there a FIRST gen and SECOND gen forum to separate the two?

[amc49]

To the OP.................if somebody could accurately tell when the trans will die he would be a millionaire. The way the trans is used and the driving style of owner has much to do with that and on this design random chance figures in bigtime as well. This type will fail more at varied mileages than the normal ATX design which I've rebuilt a lot of.

As an extension of the above answer and in response to the post above this one as well the trans works based on the interlocking SIDE bite of a chain on metal sprockets and the fails generally will come from wear on those mainly and simply no way to determine when that can happen to begin to slip at all. Even the way the trans gets broke in could affect it. Later year model should be somewhat better but in this design case it depends on newer materials coming into play to simply last longer. An external cooler will not help as much as on conventional transmissions as the fails usually come from a non-heat related issue. The later ones add a planetary to make the chain range more on the sprockets and that in effect is like renewing the sprockets at least. I personally feel the oil change interval is too long and needs to be at 30K miles as this type by virtue of the drive mechanism should make for more metal particles in the oil to fail other hydraulic parts faster. They better have killer magnets in these. And no dipstick? Don't get me started on that one! More OEM scam trying to force more dealer work in the doors.

Again to OP, based on the wide open 100-200K number you gave you can just about expect 100% that something will happen in that set of numbers.............which is not realistic.

From someone who worked on CVT drives in industry for many years.

[Rogue Jarhead]

Amc49, it sounds like you have some experience with this type of transmission, I have likened it based on what I have heard to a big belt that slides back and forth on a cone. Is that any where near correct? To simplistic? I’ve never split a CVT case to look so I’m relying on hearsay.

As far as failure though, think of all the transmission shops across this country. Automatic transmissions fail, while there are a few that will go way over 200k most fail between 100-150k. How many people trade their vehicle in because “it’s not shifting right” or they take it to a transmission shop to have some “work”done?. I recently had two friends have that “work done” thing, one a complete transmission replacement, Ford Explorer, the other I think was solenoid replacement on a Toyota pickup, whatever they did it didn’t solve the problem and the truck was traded off. Both vehicles were between 100-150k.

I realize this is only two examples, but auto transmission’s of almost any flavor tend to be failure prone. Remember the dodge vehicles from the 90’s to the mid 00’s? VW from 99-05 and others. The Nissan CVT is just a continuation of that great automatic tradition.(sarcasm)

[amc49]

It's a big belt sliding around between FOUR cones, two to a pair. As one pair opens up the other pair gets smaller in between. The 'V' space in between each two cones is the driver and gets bigger or smaller in opposition to what the other does. Making the belt settle down low in one pair and high in the other to change rollout distance and thus the effective gear ratio.

Normal ATX does have pretty much unpredictable fails too and one goes 200K while the one next to it on the assembly line only goes 100K. There is simply no way to tell as the differences can be so minor as to not be detectable on the assembly line. The transmissions are so easily affected by the way they are even put together it can lead to massive numbers of fails from 50 different reasons based on the trans design. The same with rebuilding them, one has to be super picky about attention to detail in every way, much more so than with engines if one wants a single unit to go the entire distance guaranteed. The more parts any mechanical thing has the more difficult it becomes to tell how long they will last.

Most people now follow the conventional wisdom that 'solenoids fix everything' and it seems nobody even thinks anymore that the parts can simply wear to have all the solenoids on earth fix nothing. I have fixed more than one trans with a simple say band adjustment (which have largely disappeared from transmissions) when the shops declared 'the trans needs to be rebuilt'. The shops don't like to do that any more as the results are too variable and they don't like having to mess with unhappy customers when the 'rig' didn't work. The rig of course CAN work for years if done correctly (I've gotten 20 more years out of a trans by using a 30 cent washer before!) but the skills to properly diagnose that are sadly lacking in today's shops. They do like the car dealerships do now, it's replace the entire trans everything all at once and then get the old ones rebuilt by a 3rd party that can be remotely blamed when things don't go right. That allows the spread of blame and also gets the shop the max cash it can get right off the bat. The way of the rest of the planet now, that allowing the hiring of much less skilled lower paid help as all they do is change trans all day long. CEO gets his bonus and everybody is happy except for the lower paid help and the way the planet works best. (sarcasm)

The CVT design is worth going out on a limb for Nissan over because they are (or have been) so much simpler than normal ATX, they can have more than 50% fewer parts (unless you count all the pieces it takes to simply build a chain) in them but the big issue is that chain to pulley friction thing which is 90% of the trans operation and the technology is still lacking to make the interface between those two parts as long lasting as they would like to see. Added to that is that when an older type non-CVT breaks in one gear then you often could limp the car home in another gear but with CVT that won't happen as the entire drive path still has to go through that CVT drive section. Meaning a much higher % of stranding out there and that makes nobody happy at all. Another CVT issue is the oil pumps, normal ATX does everything with up to 250 psi but CVT just to clamp the pulleys together tight enough to get a solid no-slip drive uses up around 800 psi and of course that leads to more reliability issues. And what leads indirectly to failures of the all important driving 'tooth bite' of the chain to the sprocket, once the tooth bite is gone from wear or insufficient oil pressure the trans slips and then any slip quickly removes the rest of the teeth gripping ability to bring the trans down fast.

I have no practical experience with CVT other than the drive type in industry (reinforced rubber belts on those instead of metal on cars, other than that the trans works the same) but I can tell what is what in trans blowups and I had zero experience in normal ATX either but every one I've ever built runs forever when I'm done with it. I have never paid for any car repair in my entire life and do all work including the most major type myself and for the last 40 years. Just call me super eccentric. Coming off Fords for forever, I'm tired of the way the company has gone so sh-tty with how they build the cars to intentionally break so they can sell you more parts. It seems they use the engineers more for that now than to make the cars last longer and it makes me want to throw up. Seriously, the Focus cars I have have failed so many parts and the replacement ones fail just as quick that I cannot even count them any more. Decided after a lot of years of Japanese motorcycle to try another line (Nissan) to see how bad the Japanese can screw things up, the domestic brands seem to have run that off a cliff. I personally don't like to pay too much for a car and paying too much and STILL having them break way too much stuff, well, that's simply unacceptable to me.

[amc49]

A thought struck me that the whole CVT thing could be an extension of other major very cynical thinking out there in industry today.

I worked in parts in the late '70s and around '10 as well. The major difference there being the 'lifetime warranty' thing which has grown to be the 800 lb. gorilla in the room and it's not a good thing at least in my view. The idea is simply heavily flawed in its' typical American capitalistic translation into reality. You make the mistake of thinking that type of warranty means you get a much better part while the exact opposite is what really happens. The way it actually works is that you pay 3X-4X the normal price for a part as you used to and what you really get is not a better part, rather a long series of much lower quality parts, the Chinese builders being able to supply as many of them as you need and they STILL make money doing it based on what they pay their workers. The alts and starters got so bad we were forced to pretest them right out of the boxes and fully 20% would fail right there on the spot. Then scads more fails in a month or two months. The quality of almost all other parts dropped as well. ENDLESS warrantying out of parts, that alone took up another 20% of worker output each day it seemed. Along with that most world known brands have been bought out just for their names only and most parts are actually supplied by huge consortiums so that it becomes impossible to tell who even makes most parts anymore other than the country of origin. The big parts chains have pushed that ala Walmart procedures with their vendors to greatly lower the price of parts to make them more applicable to the lifetime programs they think they have to have to compete. Look at your parts in boxes and the boxes themselves, often they have nothing in common at all.

If Nissan has applied that thinking to CVT then it will not be a good thing for the average man. I don't even want to think about that...................look at what it is, they want to do nothing there except get the biggest money there is for the least amount of output and to only change all transmissions only with no messing around with them much at all before they come to that decision. It screams cheap crap part. All the people getting wowed by Nissan simply giving them a new trans may well be getting suckered the same way.

[Rogue Jarhead]

Understood, the FOUR Cones make sense. I guess whoever described it to me or what ever I read about it was simplistic or maybe just my simple mind.

I know all these cheap parts from China keep prices low, the downside of that is the absolute crap quality that's sold in major car parts stores across the country. I went into a parts store for a wheel bearing one time the kid brought me the one in stock. I looked at the box 'Made in China' so I just flat out asked "don't you have another choice?". Then I asked for a FAG bearing, turns out it was $3 less than the lifetime crap they tried to sell me. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to ask.

Dealers and others just pull the wool over many peoples eyes, the person that posted a couple of days ago about the rear hatch not staying up and the dealer telling them it was a $900 motor and not 2 $20 lift struts that take 10 minutes or less to fix. What I suspect would happen is the dealer would change the struts and charge for a new motor. Of course I hope I'm wrong.

[Car guy here]

<if somebody could accurately tell when the trans will die he would be a millionaire.>

Uh, that would be the CEO ...

[datechboss101]

amc49 Thanks for explaining about the CVT. It makes total sense for me now! IME whenever I get a car part, I make sure it is equivalent to the part that was originally installed on the car from the factory or made out of better quality. If Nissan does make its CVT out of cheap parts, more likely I am going to trade in the Rogue for another Honda or Acura, as I have never experienced any automatic transmission issues at all, yet. I think I just got to wait until the CVT cannot push any more power to move the vehicle.

How I have been driving the vehicle is mostly at or under 3500 rpms, once in a while between 4000-4500 rpms when I am in the "sport" mode or normal mode, and 5000k rpms on very extremely rare occasion.

[j10013]

<if somebody could accurately tell when the trans will die he would be a millionaire.>

Uh, that would be the CEO ...

lol. I just bought a rogue for my wife. in 2007 I bought an altima and every message board on the internet was filled with horror stories of the (then new) CVT blowing up and not lasting very long. well, that car has 130k miles on it and the transmission is fine. never changed the fluid either as the OM only says to inspect. the only time replacement is called for on a maintenance schedule is for the extreme driving. seeing the same kind of thing here in the rogue board made me chuckle. guess some things never change.

[prj]

My daughter has a 2008 Altima with CVT.

170,000 miles and has never changed the fluid. Still drives fine.

[sirthanh]

One thing I dislike about this forum is that people talk about the rogue and issues with the transmission or other issues that a year or generation specific and they are all lumped in together.

OP has a 2016 with a newer CVT and the last reply is a person with a 2008 Rogue with transmission issues and a replacement. Two totally different cars when it comes to the transmission, but it confuses people and hard to get straight answers.

Why isn't there a FIRST gen and SECOND gen forum to separate the two?

I agree. It's hard to find information on a specific generation without reading through the search list, and even when you do find a topic that relates to what you're searching for, it has mixed responses from both 1st gen and 2nd gen owners. Most forums I've been to would have separate section or even a separate forum to distinguish between generations.

[datechboss101]

<if somebody could accurately tell when the trans will die he would be a millionaire.>

Uh, that would be the CEO ...

lol. I just bought a rogue for my wife. in 2007 I bought an altima and every message board on the internet was filled with horror stories of the (then new) CVT blowing up and not lasting very long. well, that car has 130k miles on it and the transmission is fine. never changed the fluid either as the OM only says to inspect. the only time replacement is called for on a maintenance schedule is for the extreme driving. seeing the same kind of thing here in the rogue board made me chuckle. guess some things never change.

Yep. Some things (Nissan and Toyota) never change at all. If the Rogue was equipped with a tranditional transmission, then nothing would be an issue. I am not sure what even the benefit of the CVT is when the last tank gave me 23 MPG (equivalent to the city gas mileage on my Honda Accord).

One thing I dislike about this forum is that people talk about the rogue and issues with the transmission or other issues that a year or generation specific and they are all lumped in together.

OP has a 2016 with a newer CVT and the last reply is a person with a 2008 Rogue with transmission issues and a replacement. Two totally different cars when it comes to the transmission, but it confuses people and hard to get straight answers.

Why isn't there a FIRST gen and SECOND gen forum to separate the two?

I agree. It's hard to find information on a specific generation without reading through the search list, and even when you do find a topic that relates to what you're searching for, it has mixed responses from both 1st gen and 2nd gen owners. Most forums I've been to would have separate section or even a separate forum to distinguish between generations.

This forum and another dead Nissan forum has both Rogue generations under one tab, so it is making life hard to find out and help for a particular generation. And most of the threads here are for the 1st gen Rogues.

[amc49]

The CVT idea is for Nissan not the general public. Super simple transmission with 2/3 less parts and a kept secret so only Nissan gets the business for them. Like with all things business it's all about the money........

[Rogue Jarhead]

i know Nissan has really invested in these CVT and they seem to have more of them than anyone else on the roads, but I think some Jeeps and Mini Coopers have CVT ‘s also. Of course with each of those you have the option of another transmission, not so with Nissan.

[prj]

Yep. Some things (Nissan and Toyota) never change at all. If the Rogue was equipped with a tranditional transmission, then nothing would be an issue. I am not sure what even the benefit of the CVT is when the last tank gave me 23 MPG (equivalent to the city gas mileage on my Honda Accord).

CVTs are built with fewer parts compared to conventional transmission thus they are less expensive to manufacture. In turn the car companies either charge us less for the cars or the same and reap the profit.

The Rogue competitors...Honda CRV and Subaru Forester/Outback/Crosstrek all use CVT transmissions as well.

The 2018 RAV 4 continues to use the 6 speed conventional transmission.

[prj]

---

[j10013]

i know Nissan has really invested in these CVT and they seem to have more of them than anyone else on the roads, but I think some Jeeps and Mini Coopers have CVT ‘s also. Of course with each of those you have the option of another transmission, not so with Nissan.

you do realize most every manufacture uses them now don't you? and they're made by Jatco, not nissan. can't tell you for sure every manufacture, but I do know for certain Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all use them now. like I said, saw all this on the (i think) nissan club boards concerning the altima back in 2007, 08 etc. in fact, go to the message board of any car and there will be the same type of threads about whatever particular facet of that car people have determined was only done by the manufacture to screw their customers. Last car I bought was a camaro. go over to one of their boards and you'll hear all the horrors and accompanying anecdotes of direct injected motors. like the cvt, there's no hard data to show anything to be concerned about, but it's still the bugaboo. buy enough new cars (my Rogue was my 6th or 7th) and you see the same pattern and learn to just laugh at it.

[Rogue Jarhead]

i know Nissan has really invested in these CVT and they seem to have more of them than anyone else on the roads, but I think some Jeeps and Mini Coopers have CVT ‘s also. Of course with each of those you have the option of another transmission, not so with Nissan.

you do realize most every manufacture uses them now don't you? and they're made by Jatco, not nissan. can't tell you for sure every manufacture, but I do know for certain Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all use them now. like I said, saw all this on the (i think) nissan club boards concerning the altima back in 2007, 08 etc. in fact, go to the message board of any car and there will be the same type of threads about whatever particular facet of that car people have determined was only done by the manufacture to screw their customers. Last car I bought was a camaro. go over to one of their boards and you'll hear all the horrors and accompanying anecdotes of direct injected motors. like the cvt, there's no hard data to show anything to be concerned about, but it's still the bugaboo. buy enough new cars (my Rogue was my 6th or 7th) and you see the same pattern and learn to just laugh at it.

Yes I do, there are not that many transmission manufacturers, Jatco is probably the biggest, however Nissan seems to be the company that is all in on these CVT's. Some other manufacturers have 8 and 9 speed conventional transmissions so the transmission is always hunting and shifting for the right computer designated gear, and probably the majority of those trannys are made by Jatco.

By its very nature a forum is where all the people with a problem come to see if others are having similar problems.

[datechboss101]

you do realize most every manufacture uses them now don't you? and they're made by Jatco, not nissan. can't tell you for sure every manufacture, but I do know for certain Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all use them now. like I said, saw all this on the (i think) nissan club boards concerning the altima back in 2007, 08 etc. in fact, go to the message board of any car and there will be the same type of threads about whatever particular facet of that car people have determined was only done by the manufacture to screw their customers. Last car I bought was a camaro. go over to one of their boards and you'll hear all the horrors and accompanying anecdotes of direct injected motors. like the cvt, there's no hard data to show anything to be concerned about, but it's still the bugaboo. buy enough new cars (my Rogue was my 6th or 7th) and you see the same pattern and learn to just laugh at it.

Yes I do, there are not that many transmission manufacturers, Jatco is probably the biggest, however Nissan seems to be the company that is all in on these CVT's. Some other manufacturers have 8 and 9 speed conventional transmissions so the transmission is always hunting and shifting for the right computer designated gear, and probably the majority of those trannys are made by Jatco.

By its very nature a forum is where all the people with a problem come to see if others are having similar problems.

The 8spd and 9spd are made by ZF, and the 10spd is made by Honda, GM, Ford, etc. Our Rogue is the 4th new car and MDX is the 5th, so this CVT is the only question markable transmission that we own, as the others never gave us issues. However, the Honda CVT is quiet and doesn't go to 3k rpms when putting 1/2 throttle or even 1/4 throttle (engine is the 2.4L NA).

[amc49]

It matters not one whit who makes the trans, the reliability issues still go back to affect the marque of vehicle itself and deservedly so. Study what 3rd party suppliers are in existence for, they are there simply to take the monetary hits for the larger company when a thing repeatedly errors over and over. The entire idea is about the spreading out of liability. Again, all about the money.

Think Takata, now the companies have somebody they can point a finger at when they complain they as well are victims like everybody else.

[ras_oscar]

I purchased a 2012 rogue and replaced the CVT after 125K miles. The manual calls for fluid replace at 60K, but with the new CVT I'm doing it at 30K.