When did giving to charity become giving BACK?

[stebo0728]

Ok another one of my inane rants

When did it become normal lingo to refer to giving to charity as "giving back"? As to say that what you are giving was originally given to you, not earned? When I give to charity I dont "give back", i just GIVE. I earned what I have, it wasnt given to me, and not that I want any super credit for giving, or that I give to make myself look good, but I surely dont want to be labeled as "giving back". Maybe this sounds crazy to you guys, but little things like that really get to me sometimes. Most people pay it no mind, but small nuances like that help to contribute to our increasing notion of "progressivism", which humorously is now the new word for "socialism".

[audtatious]

A lefties "wet dream" is a world in which everyone makes the same, has the same opportunities, has the same needs, etc. Kinda like "Star Trek" where there is no "want" anymore on Earth. The problem is that human nature does not work that way and some people have more "wants" than others or more drive. Since the whole "wet dream" is unobtainable then people who have more than others, for whatever reason, should feel like they have benefited from _something_ and should give back to the community which allowed them to succeed.

Yes, it's screwed up.

[IBCoupe]

As per some of Aud's statements, I've always understood it to be a recognition of the fact that your social success is only possible where there's a society within which for you to succeed. In that sense, you are giving back to the less fortunate, as a thank you for letting you step on their backs, however indirectly, on your way to the top.

On a less utilitarian stroke, and more like "giving" than "giving back," it's also a recognition that much of your success is due to a certain amount of luck (never having been crippled by accident or inheritence, never having had a mental illness, never having been beaten by a spouse, etc.), and that given a certain set of circumstances, you'd be no different than the people who aren't as well-off.

But I've never seen it as an attempt to guilt others into giving. I see the Salvation Army Santas and the nun's standing in front of an orphanage with a folding table and plastic banner as doing that.

[stebo0728]

Wow, well there is where we disagree in a very large fashion. Everyone has different circumstances, but barring mental disability, every other case you mentioned just revolves back around to laziness. Any of the situations you listed, plus the thousands other that exist, you can easily find people who overcome the situation and make something of themselves. That you want to label yourself "less fortunate" as an excuse as to why you are a lazy-a** just doesnt cut it. And this whole notion of success only existing upon the broken backs of the "unfortunate" is ludicrous in my mind. Success most often revolves around your own broken back. We are all a product of our choices, our choices are what sculpt us into what and where we are in life. The old saying, "you made your bed, now lie in it" rings true. If you have a change of heart, temporary assistance is available, make us of it, and pick your a** up off the couch and make something of yourself.

I of course am not speaking DIRECTLY to you, as you seem to be following the very model I lay out, and making wise choices for yourself, I am speaking to those you deem "less fortunate".

[IBCoupe]

...you can easily find people who overcome the situation and make something of themselves.

Confirmation Bias: I've always been suspicious of an argument that proposes an experiment that sets out to find only the people that would confirm its own premise. I can easily find people that can taste the color purple and see the sound a police siren makes (http://www.synesthesia.info/), but what does that prove? That the people who can't taste the color purple aren't doing their darndest to achieve that not-so-lofty goal?

You know what would be a neater trick than showing me people that have, by some means or another, overcome their hindrances? Convince me that nobody who tried "hard enough" ever failed. Yeah, I know - it's asking you to prove a negative.

I was taught that success takes equal parts effort and opportunity. Now, you can dispute the ratio, but you can never escape the fact that opportunity involves a certain amount of luck. The more hard work you put in, the less you need to rely on luck, sure, but you can't ever eliminate it completely. Yeah, that means people can always excuse themselves from hard work because they say, "I've done it all." But that doesn't really matter, does it? So long as we can point to things that they haven't done that they reasonably could have, we know they're wrong.

It's another balancing act between abuse and injustice. The thing is, I think it's a lot easier to identify abuse - reminding people of the obvious things that they haven't done - than it is to identity to justify withholding help - constantly coming up with something else they could do.

And I'd like to correct something you seem to have taken about what I was saying: individual success does not only stand on the backs of the unfortunate - it involves successful manipulation of society. What I was saying is that society rests upon a heirarchical structure, where one person builds success from the needs of others, and where no one is born to equal needs.

[Cold_Zero]

When did it become normal lingo to refer to giving to charity as "giving back"?

When giving became more about one's self and not about the people you are helping. I have always cringed at that phrase. Because either someone is making an apology for having money (which they really shouldnt have to do) or they just want everyone to know how great they are.

[themadscientist]

I apologize for none of my meager success. I stepped on nobody that I am aware of to get where I am. I do not plan on adopting the practice. If someone has done their best, played by the rules, and been cheated of the fruits of their labor and i can help, I will. Otherwise, get the hell off my lawn!