Wheel bearing cause of vibration?

[elwesso]

As I posted in Infiniti general I went to get ym driveshaft balanced.. Long story short they put a mic up to it and said it was as smooth and quiet as can be... Case in point they said the driveshaft wasnt causing the issue..

However they did mention that a. my wheels were out of balance (by an ounce?) and also the RR wheel bearing was bad..

I dont know if i buy the wheels because the vibration is no worse since I switched form my OEM vs OZ wheels..... My OEM wheels have newer firestone tires on them and were just balanced... No apparent change in vibration due to wheels...

So eliminating the possibility of the rims being messed up, could a wheel bearing cause this sort of vibraiton...

It is a sort of fast vibration that gets real bad around 70-80.. Doesnt feel real rumbly like driveshafts sometimes do and i know (at least i trust this shop) that the driveshaft is not bad.....

[rsiwicki]

I am really interested in this also...I don't have any vibrations, but every car I have owned has needed the wheel bearings replaced by 125,000 miles and I have never heard mention of this hear on NICO before. Is there general guide line on when one should consider replacing them? Need the Q to roll down the road with a little less friction for better 1/4 ET's

[elwesso]

Also for the record I jacked up the car and didnt feel any play inthe bearing..

[DAEDALUS]

Next time ask them how they came to that conclusion. Without some pretty nice equipment, they're guessing at best. Even if they used a dial indicator to check the bearing, it wouldn't tell them for sure the bearing's causing the vibe. Yes, it is possible. Just a little play you can't feel can become quite an issue at 80mph. But bad bearings usually come with other symptoms--by the time they start to wear like that they often make some noise. Probably lots of possibilities.

I have what I think is a bad bearing on the right front...it groans just a bit over the right kind of slow bump. Bought the bearing from Joe but never got around to installing it. Upper link and struts/rubber are fairly new, though I suppose it could be the kingpin bearings. Car's been parked for a while now, as I attempt to finish my garage. Front bearings are around $50, and rears around $200 as I remember.

[maxnix]

I am still wondering if some silicon bushing has leaked in the past and is not up to snuff. Differential mounts would be the No. 1 suspect.

Sounds like the guys who diagnosed it were close, but no banana.

[jamesmost]

wes i have the same stuff happening and i did all my bushings drive shaft and have always had a sneaky suspicion about the wheel bearings but i have no play a larger size rim is more susceptable to imbalance i suspect it is a balancing issue

[elwesso]

I have checked the subframe bushings and they look OK to me...

If I get bored and have some extra time i mayhave them replaced...

The diff bushings are newish, replaced with 2 years (when the engine swap was done)

Next time ask them how they came to that conclusion. Without some pretty nice equipment, they're guessing at best. Even if they used a dial indicator to check the bearing, it wouldn't tell them for sure the bearing's causing the vibe. Yes, it is possible. Just a little play you can't feel can become quite an issue at 80mph. But bad bearings usually come with other symptoms--by the time they start to wear like that they often make some noise. Probably lots of possibilities.

They said they could hear it howling when they had it on the lift... And I recall being able to hear it when i did the same thing as well......

They also said they could see the rear wheel hopping up and down... He said if you held something up to it you could see it moving back and forth... I dont think is the problem because like i said, i had my OEM wheels on before and it made no difference.....

Heres the new OEM pricing and a diagram below

43202-40P11- HUB ASSY, REAR- 93.2043280-40P05- Bearing assy, inner, RR, 43281-40P05- BEARING ASSY, INNER, LR

No prices for the latter two online...

What do you think id want to replace? ANd do you think itd be OK to use the ones off the old Q as they seemed to be OK

[rsiwicki]

Wes...I have a good possible solution for you. You may somehow have a bent wheel hub from brushing a curb and somehow bending the hub. Therefore your wheel would be in balance, but the hub itself is bent causing it to look like the wheel is not balanced when mounted. Take the wheels off and just spin the rears at a high speed to see if you can see the hub wiggling back and forth. I had a bent hub on my 1987 Bronco from being out in the woods going mudding and it took for ever to diagnose what I had done to the truck as we went through everything until one guy at the tire shop suggested we take off the wheel and watch the hub to see if it was bent and sure enough there was a very slight wobble and when you bolt up a larger diameter object to it the wobble is more noticeable. Just a thought to try....

[elwesso]

Good show rob, the Q will be on stands this weekend anyway for brakes so ill try it.....

Anyone know how hard it is to replace it?

[elwesso]

I took a videos today of both sides of the car

The first is of the passenger side and the other is of the drivers side

http://q45.spilky.com/Q/111-1138_MVI.AV ... 39_MVI.AVI

Notice on the frame you can see it start to shake... im not sure what to think now.....

[rsiwicki]

that is a difficult one to tell from the video but I think I see a slight wiggle on the 2nd video link? I am sorry about saying sping it at high speeds (don't know what I was thinking) but you should be able to see the wobble at the lower speed (idling in gear) easier. If you did notice a slight wobble then then remember that the hub itself is a lot smaller in diameter and so when you attach a wheel to it the wobble will be amplified even more and may be causing you the vibrations....

btw...thanks for the advice and info earlier today as always you are very helpful.

[elwesso]

I took 2 more videos that i can post but none of them really show the vibration...

When I look at it, i see that the differential looks fairly steady and the rotors are shaking and thats whats causing it... The driveshaft does indeed look fine as most of the vibrations feel like its isolated to the rear... The subframe bushigns i reckon are doing a good job!! But they cant do it all!!

As you work your way out from the center of the rear subframe thats where it gets bad.. i think what I may do sometime is swap out the entire subframe from my old Q with poly bushings and then be done with it...

[texasoil]

Have you checked the axle half shafts to be sure they turn smooth and don't have a 'hitch' from a bad CV joint?Run-out on the wheel outer rim has to be kept low to avoid virbations. Typically well under 1/8 inch, preferably 0.010" or less. A bent wheel you can measure easily. A bent hub you can find by indexing the wheel around--measure rim run-out mounted in all 5 positions and see it it is 'with the wheel', or 'with the hub."

[elwesso]

Have you checked the axle half shafts to be sure they turn smooth and don't have a 'hitch' from a bad CV joint?Run-out on the wheel outer rim has to be kept low to avoid virbations. Typically well under 1/8 inch, preferably 0.010" or less. A bent wheel you can measure easily. A bent hub you can find by indexing the wheel around--measure rim run-out mounted in all 5 positions and see it it is 'with the wheel', or 'with the hub."

Good thinking, ill check that... Wouldnt surprise me that they may be bad considering the high power theyve been stressed with in past years.....

I still dont think its the wheels as it shakes just as much with my OEM wheels and with the wheels OFF!

After i do my brakes ill continue diagnosis.. What im thinking about doing is just dropping the whole subframe out of my old Q (which was smooth as butter) and installing the poly subframe bushings and then be done with it...

[FarFetched]

I want to stress there are several different vibes out there!In case low pitch(slow) vibes corresponding to speed (not engine speed) look into half shafts(cv joints) tires, rims, bearings (will be noisy if shot). In case of high pitch vibs look into d-shaft, d-shaft support bearings, Rotoflex joint, defferential assembly(worn pinion) and pinion bearing. Also, transmission can produce vibs at high speed. Hard to diag the problem. In each instance there might be a fluctuating vibe (either mechanical or audible) or constant vibe corresponding with veh speed or speed of a component . Don't forget d-shaft is spinning very-very fast (if thransm is 1:1 gear ration, the RPM on the dash represent d-shaft speed). In OD speed is even higher!Vibes could be felt in steer wheel (shimmy), bottom of the seat, on the dashboard (put the palm of your hand on it). You need to determine what kind it is and go from there!A lot of peole can't describe the vibes for a proper diag!

Just a fresh info!Cheers!

[Jesda]

Usually when the wheel bearing is failing, the vibration will go away while steering, like on a sweeping curve on the highway.

[elwesso]

I want to stress there are several different vibes out there!In case low pitch(slow) vibes corresponding to speed (not engine speed) look into half shafts(cv joints) tires, rims, bearings (will be noisy if shot). In case of high pitch vibs look into d-shaft, d-shaft support bearings, Rotoflex joint, defferential assembly(worn pinion) and pinion bearing. Also, transmission can produce vibs at high speed. Hard to diag the problem. In each instance there might be a fluctuating vibe (either mechanical or audible) or constant vibe corresponding with veh speed or speed of a component . Don't forget d-shaft is spinning very-very fast (if thransm is 1:1 gear ration, the RPM on the dash represent d-shaft speed). In OD speed is even higher!Vibes could be felt in steer wheel (shimmy), bottom of the seat, on the dashboard (put the palm of your hand on it). You need to determine what kind it is and go from there!A lot of peole can't describe the vibes for a proper diag!

Just a fresh info!Cheers!

Interesting informaiton, i think what im going to do is get an opinion from my "mechanic" and we'll go from there...

ITs definitely a faster vibration.. Id liketo rule out the driveshaft and say that itsnot the problem bceause they said it wasnt, but i suppose i cant do that.....

Its hard to diagnose vibrations over the internet, but ive driven cars with bad driveshafts and its definitely more of a higher pictched, faster vibration..... The bad driveshaft car sounded like there was a subwoofer g under the seat, constantly rumbling... This is the same sort of thing, but somethign higher pitched and faster.....

This feels definitely like its coming from the rear... When I crawled under the car with it running at 80ish, i felt under the seat and didnt feel much, but when i felt the rear subframe it was shaking like crazy.....

[FarFetched]

That sounds like a subframe missalignment causing pinion to "walk" from its normal position. Worst case, diff bearings are "shot". There is equipment to listen to vibes, When I worked for Chrysler, we had a special tool with remote microphones (magnet) and sensors to detect vibes on VIPERS! Worked 99%. Takes time to set up but at the end worth every minute spent explaining it to a frustrated customer!I know vibes are "killers" of driving joy!Cheers!

[elwesso]

So do you think if i took it to a dealer (nissan?) i could have them diagnose it?

[elwesso]

That sounds like a subframe missalignment causing pinion to "walk" from its normal position. Worst case, diff bearings are "shot". There is equipment to listen to vibes, When I worked for Chrysler, we had a special tool with remote microphones (magnet) and sensors to detect vibes on VIPERS! Worked 99%. Takes time to set up but at the end worth every minute spent explaining it to a frustrated customer!I know vibes are "killers" of driving joy!Cheers!

This could be caused by bad bushings, yes?

[John Nordling]

I have the same question. After 18 months of working on my Q, I finally got it on the road. I only drove it less than 50 miles before working on it and a vibration problem was masked by a bad injector stumble.

Anyway, I have a vibration too, the kind you feel in the seat, but not so much in the steering wheel. Jacked it up and couldn't see any vibration in the driveline, but the tires seemed out of round. I pulled them off, but the vibration continues, although somewhat subdued. I didn't notice any vibration in the wheel bearings, the differential bushings (new), or any of the rear sub-frame bushings. The only thing I noticed is the right axle shaft seems to wobble a little on the differential side.

So, since I don't have any special tools, will a dealer be able to diagnose the kind of vibration problem you have been discussing? The car is a '90 Q45 with the hicas steering and the hicas chrome wheels. It has about 92,000 miles on it. Now that I have it running, I can't wait to get the bugs worked out and DRIVE it!

Hey, if it is the rear axle shaft, are there repair kits available? The axle assemply is really expensive, about like a driveshaft, so I'm looking for alternatives---even used ones if that works.

Thanks for any help. Throwing these kind of parts at a problem mounts up in a hurry.

John in Seattle