SR20DET - what tuning setup should i run lots of mods?
SR20DET - what tuning setup should i run lots of mods?
ok ive got a s13 black top with hks 264 cams,greddy valve springs,rocker arm stopers,plenum intack, fmic, koyo, aem fic, tru boost controller ,z32 maf, flex o lite fans, blitz 850cc, walbro, fuel pressure regulator, 2 way nismo dif, and a t2871r and need some help whith what i shold do about the tuning iny help wold be great. im thinking rom tune but not shur maybe a piggy back? help
Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (j u ice)
Well me I just went with a Tomei stand alone ECU and love it.As far as piggy backs I will tell you an Apexi AFC is going to do you no good the biggest injectors to tune safely with them is 500cc after that its pushing it.
Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (James@CI)
JWT tuning
post pics of the motor...
post pics of the motor...
Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (j u ice)
there are several people in the Atlanta area that run power FC units and swear by them. I think the D Jetro unit is the most preferred so you can run the MAP system and dump the need for the MAF. Some of them have said its nicer if you can find a tuner, because it keeps you from having to having to send off your ECU when you want to make upgrades, but we will see. I am thinking thats where i will be going as soon as I get some injectors.
Re: (j u ice)
Well as long as you run the stock maf it will run just be alittle ruff idle and as far as stock injectors with your turbo I would just set around 10psi to be on the safe side if you are not going to have any tunning.But yes it will run.
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TonyStarks29
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Re: (j u ice)
I put 740cc's in my car it runs SUUPPPER rich to the point that it idles to 4 rpm's you eaither need to do something with the ecu or put the old injectors in if you keep the 850's your also gonna kill your spark plugs...
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the converted
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Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (j u ice)
Use that?j u ice wrote: aem fic
Re: (j u ice)
I'll never understand why people install higher flowing fuel injectors without at least getting a rom tune to compensate for them. Fuel injectors are only valves, they only open and close. 740cc injectors flow twice as much fuel than 370's do over the same static time frame. The ECU isn't ever going to figure out on its own that you changed the injectors, so without a tune the entire fuel map is going to be twice as rich as it should be. You're MUCH better off not installing your injectors until you get a tune to go along with them. Actually, you're not just much better off, that's literally the only way to do it right.
I dunno maybe wasting gasoline, fouling plugs, killing O2 sensors, and burning everyone's eyes out with pig rich fumes is the new cool thing and I'm just too old school to catch on.
I dunno maybe wasting gasoline, fouling plugs, killing O2 sensors, and burning everyone's eyes out with pig rich fumes is the new cool thing and I'm just too old school to catch on.
Re: (Neil)
As far as tuning itself is concerned, forget piggyback unless your car is OBDII (built from 1996 on), in which case it unfortunately becomes your only option.
Standalone management is great if you don't have OBDII to worry about. The main advantage over rom tuning is that you're pretty much guaranteed that you'll be able to take your car to one of probably half a dozen legit race shops within driving distance from you and have them be able to understand the tuning software to get you fine tuned on their dyno. It's just typically over $1000 for the setup + $400 in tuning time and dyno runs.
Rom tuning makes a lot of sense to a lot of people because it's a proper tune and a lot more cost effective. The down side is that since the person burning your chip can't test your car on dyno, he has to tune conservatively to be safe. And likewise because not everyone has the special hardware needed to interface with the EPROM chip and modify the stored bin files, it'sunlikely that your local dyno will be able to tune the car, either. That means means for any changes you want to make, you have to mail your chip back. That can be inconvenient if you plan on doing major upgrades all the time, but for the most part you wouldn't have to unless you change out items whos function are determined directly by the tune maps such as fuel injectors. I was told most bolt on's such as a set of cams and a header are "gray area" enough to produce good results while not specifically necessitating tuning for.
I got my ecu tuned through eMance. Some people will bark all day about how he only copies Enthalpy and JWT bin files, and while that's plausible, it's really only speculation coming from the guys who are butthurt that they spent $400 more for the same thing from a "name brand" provider. Justin definitely does know what he's doing. I think he's pretty active on KAT.org since his personal car is KA-T running tweaked out on bioethanol. If you buy from eMance, you have the option to save like $20 and just order the daughterboard w/ EPROM installed for you to solder into your own ECU. If you're at all skeptical about your abilities with a soldering iron then I'd suggest coughing up the $20 and supplying your ECU for him to modify.
Modified by Neil at 10:36 AM 9/27/2008
Standalone management is great if you don't have OBDII to worry about. The main advantage over rom tuning is that you're pretty much guaranteed that you'll be able to take your car to one of probably half a dozen legit race shops within driving distance from you and have them be able to understand the tuning software to get you fine tuned on their dyno. It's just typically over $1000 for the setup + $400 in tuning time and dyno runs.
Rom tuning makes a lot of sense to a lot of people because it's a proper tune and a lot more cost effective. The down side is that since the person burning your chip can't test your car on dyno, he has to tune conservatively to be safe. And likewise because not everyone has the special hardware needed to interface with the EPROM chip and modify the stored bin files, it'sunlikely that your local dyno will be able to tune the car, either. That means means for any changes you want to make, you have to mail your chip back. That can be inconvenient if you plan on doing major upgrades all the time, but for the most part you wouldn't have to unless you change out items whos function are determined directly by the tune maps such as fuel injectors. I was told most bolt on's such as a set of cams and a header are "gray area" enough to produce good results while not specifically necessitating tuning for.
I got my ecu tuned through eMance. Some people will bark all day about how he only copies Enthalpy and JWT bin files, and while that's plausible, it's really only speculation coming from the guys who are butthurt that they spent $400 more for the same thing from a "name brand" provider. Justin definitely does know what he's doing. I think he's pretty active on KAT.org since his personal car is KA-T running tweaked out on bioethanol. If you buy from eMance, you have the option to save like $20 and just order the daughterboard w/ EPROM installed for you to solder into your own ECU. If you're at all skeptical about your abilities with a soldering iron then I'd suggest coughing up the $20 and supplying your ECU for him to modify.
Modified by Neil at 10:36 AM 9/27/2008
Re: (Neil)
The more I think of to tell you the more I realize you're just a noob with deep pockets.
Enjoy sorting out your bugs.
Modified by Neil at 9:09 AM 9/28/2008
Enjoy sorting out your bugs.
Modified by Neil at 9:09 AM 9/28/2008
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TRBOMOFO
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Re: (Neil)
i think i am missing something here becase i have S13 redtop and 91 240sx wiring harness so no OBDII and i am running the greddy ulimate piggy and i like itNeil wrote:As far as tuning itself is concerned, forget piggyback unless your car is OBDII (built from 1996 on), in which case it unfortunately becomes your only option.
Standalone management is great if you don't have OBDII to worry about. The main advantage over rom tuning is that you're pretty much guaranteed that you'll be able to take your car to one of probably half a dozen legit race shops within driving distance from you and have them be able to understand the tuning software to get you fine tuned on their dyno. It's just typically over $1000 for the setup + $400 in tuning time and dyno runs.
Rom tuning makes a lot of sense to a lot of people because it's a proper tune and a lot more cost effective. The down side is that since the person burning your chip can't test your car on dyno, he has to tune conservatively to be safe. And likewise because not everyone has the special hardware needed to interface with the EPROM chip and modify the stored bin files, it'sunlikely that your local dyno will be able to tune the car, either. That means means for any changes you want to make, you have to mail your chip back. That can be inconvenient if you plan on doing major upgrades all the time, but for the most part you wouldn't have to unless you change out items whos function are determined directly by the tune maps such as fuel injectors. I was told most bolt on's such as a set of cams and a header are "gray area" enough to produce good results while not specifically necessitating tuning for.
I got my ecu tuned through eMance. Some people will bark all day about how he only copies Enthalpy and JWT bin files, and while that's plausible, it's really only speculation coming from the guys who are butthurt that they spent $400 more for the same thing from a "name brand" provider. Justin definitely does know what he's doing. I think he's pretty active on KAT.org since his personal car is KA-T running tweaked out on bioethanol. If you buy from eMance, you have the option to save like $20 and just order the daughterboard w/ EPROM installed for you to solder into your own ECU. If you're at all skeptical about your abilities with a soldering iron then I'd suggest coughing up the $20 and supplying your ECU for him to modify.
Modified by Neil at 10:36 AM 9/27/2008
granted it craps out due to it needed all the stock sensors to be appropiate and able to handle what i want
for example:
stock T25 stock MAF and i have it at 14 psi Built SR so i had it Dynoed Tuned and it would not get more then 240 RWHP due to the MAF maxing out at the 5 volt at 3 k RPM and then the ***** T25 crapping out at 6 k RPM and not able to hold boost
BUT
it did everything what i wanted it to and i will be able to EASILY adjust it later on for future setups
AEM standalone would be TITS but it costs alot and im in college
if i had that, it comes with its own MAF and sensors so i could have got 250 RWHP out of the T25 till it crapped out and i would been fine
so that is the trade offs between Greddy Ultimate and AEM
my problem with ROM tunes
if you cant do it then you have to travel to someone to do it for you and it is only good for THE SETUP YOU ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING YOU CHANGE SOMETHING AND ALL GOES SOUTH until you go back and get it reflashed
i would rather have the felexibility to change it when i want it
but i also have a SO SO concepts of tuning but i have seen all methods done
just my .02 cents
Modified by TRBOMOFO at 9:42 PM 9/30/2008
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the converted
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Re: (TRBOMOFO)
Juice, in your first post you listed that you have an AEM F/IC. That's a damn nice piggy back and you can do pretty much whatever you want to with it.
AEM does not come with a MAF. You can run pretty much any MAF you want to, or you could switch over to speed density.TRBOMOFO wrote:
if i had that, it comes with its own MAF and sensors so i could have got 250 RWHP out of the T25 till it crapped out and i would been fine
Re: (the converted)
...what is speed density ( enligten )the converted wrote:or you could switch over to speed density.
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TRBOMOFO
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Re: (the converted)
that what it wasthe converted wrote:Juice, in your first post you listed that you have an AEM F/IC. That's a damn nice piggy back and you can do pretty much whatever you want to with it.
AEM does not come with a MAF. You can run pretty much any MAF you want to, or you could switch over to speed density.
it ran off the MAF and air temp
Rom tune Haltechor Power FC
As far as running bigger injectors on a stock ecu. That's really really really stupid.
Sure it MIGHT 'run.' Run in the sense that the motor turns over and starts... with a lot of black smoke and gas pooling in your exhaust.
But will it drive? No
For you, I'd say get a Rom Tune. You can get more power (better tune) out of the Power FC or Haltech but if you do get those, take it to someone who knows how to tune (no offense).
As far as running bigger injectors on a stock ecu. That's really really really stupid.
Sure it MIGHT 'run.' Run in the sense that the motor turns over and starts... with a lot of black smoke and gas pooling in your exhaust.
But will it drive? No
For you, I'd say get a Rom Tune. You can get more power (better tune) out of the Power FC or Haltech but if you do get those, take it to someone who knows how to tune (no offense).
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the converted
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Re: (Kalypso123)
Sorry, technobable for MAPKalypso123 wrote:
...what is speed density ( enligten )
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the converted
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Re: (j u ice)
I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why you would pay for a rom tune when you could just have the FIC do everything you need.
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crashcourse
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Re: (j u ice)
Take it to a tuner ....... but my first thought for you is, stock injectors untill you have the cashflow, go to a tuner and install those massive injectors.
I know with the stock maf and a 2871 with stock 370cc injectors will run run 15psi which is stupid but I have heard of it the only reason I think its not killing his motor is the stock maf (in the summer heat). I agree Run 10psi stock setup then upgrade when tuning is available.....
I know with the stock maf and a 2871 with stock 370cc injectors will run run 15psi which is stupid but I have heard of it the only reason I think its not killing his motor is the stock maf (in the summer heat). I agree Run 10psi stock setup then upgrade when tuning is available.....
Re: (the converted)
your right im not thinking i dident fully understand be for wat it dus but i do now.
Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (j u ice)
Juice,With your set up, the very simplest tuning set-up would be to pitch the FIC, and the Z32 MAF and go with MAP-ECU speed density tuning. MAF-less. The MAP-ECU unit is cheap at $425, and it has an on-board MAP sensor. It's A/F only and piggy-backs on the SR ECU, which will continue to do the timing control. The software is very much like the AEM-FIc, and any good dyno tuner should be able to get you about 375 to 400 to the wheels at about 1 BAR to 1.25BAR. The 264s and the GT2871R is an excellent combo on a Redtop with proper tuning.
Your 850cc injectors are too big, but not if you chose to tune with E85. For gasoline, 550cc or 650cc will work better for injector scaling. Buy to MAP-ECU unit from the money you get from selling the Z32 MAF, and the FIC. Happy. Stable. No fuel cut/boost cut problems.
MACAutoParker, CO
Your 850cc injectors are too big, but not if you chose to tune with E85. For gasoline, 550cc or 650cc will work better for injector scaling. Buy to MAP-ECU unit from the money you get from selling the Z32 MAF, and the FIC. Happy. Stable. No fuel cut/boost cut problems.
MACAutoParker, CO
Re: what tuning setup should i run lots of mods? (MACAuto)
thanks for info and not giving me sh** i wood do it, but i need my car be for nov 1( the ter tech event in fl) and dont think i can get rid of the maf or fic it in time
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