What to use to tune an SR20DET?

For the RWD SR20DET cars! Sponsored by Wiring Specialties.
JO3JOES13
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What to use to tune your sr20det???

Postby JO3JOES13 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:35 am

I need some help finding the right way to tune my car. I have been leaning toward the apexi power fc. But there are a few other options i like as well. so i'm gonna ask you and you tell me which you have used and let me know how it has worked for you!

the mods i'm adding include: turbonetics turbo 60-1, custom topmount manifold/downpipe, synapse bov & wastgate, z32 maf, BC springs, retainers, and 264 cams, cometic 1.01 head gasket.

currently i have Apexi n1 3" exhaust, FMIC w/ 3" piping, Apexi SAFCII , blitz bov, J30 diff.

last dyno 220whp.looking to get 400+whp
Modified by JO3JOES13 at 2:11 PM 2/14/2008


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dickie
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Postby dickie » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:07 pm

lol... good luck dude. i moved this to the right forum for you.

ps, dont type in all caps, especially titles!

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inkslingers13
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Re: (d!ck)

Postby inkslingers13 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:24 pm

ive heard great things about the aem ems. my buddy Steve Oaks is running one and hes had no problems. hope this helps.

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Hijacker
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Postby Hijacker » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:59 pm

I'll tell you what I don't use. Caps Lock. Fuggin' fixed

TurboTagTeam
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Re: (Hijacker)

Postby TurboTagTeam » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:53 pm

You'd have a easier time finding someone to tune AEM EMS than Apexi Power Excel. And AEM has alot better user support.

I've ran Power Excel on my FD RX-7 and now I run it on my S13 SR. It's allways worked awesome for me. But, I tune cars for a living so I'm no too worried about user support.

Swappedandboosted
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Re: What to use to tune your sr20det??? (JO3JOES13)

Postby Swappedandboosted » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:27 pm

your only looking for 400 whp then perhaps save your money and run the safc2. otherwise powerfc all day long.

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Touge_Drifter
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Re: What to use to tune your sr20det??? (Swappedandboosted)

Postby Touge_Drifter » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:10 pm

I have a power fc w/dataloggit tuning software. Really helpful & Great/easy to use. I'm running 442whp & no problem!!!


JO3JOES13
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Postby JO3JOES13 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:51 am

well i guess im gonna go with a power fc! considering it cost half as much as the aem and the enthalpy is just does not seem like a very good idea i'll be posting here pretty soon to tell you if i made the right decision or not! thanks for your help!

JO3JOES13
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Postby JO3JOES13 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:52 am

oh and i guess this means an Apexi SAFC2 is for sale! any takers? lol

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leroiboy
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Re: (JO3JOES13)

Postby leroiboy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:03 pm

how much?

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Touge_Drifter
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Re: (leroiboy)

Postby Touge_Drifter » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:19 pm

You are going to love the Power fc. Made everything sooooo much easier. Able to hit 442whp at 15psi. Turbo able to hit 22psi (safe)


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homeslicej2
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Re: What to use to tune your sr20det??? (Swappedandboosted)

Postby homeslicej2 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:09 am

Swappedandboosted wrote:your only looking for 400 whp then perhaps save your money and run the safc2. otherwise powerfc all day long.
And this will lead to the tragic death of your motor costing you more $ in the long run. Leave "trickery" alone and spend the dough on an ECU tune or full standalone.

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Re: What to use to tune your sr20det??? (Swappedandboosted)

Postby codyace » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:14 am

Swappedandboosted wrote:your only looking for 400 whp then perhaps save your money and run the safc2. otherwise powerfc all day long.
You should stop giving advice.

Seriously.

Step away from the keyboard. Just ue the mouse to browse

SAFC's will forever be tuning tools of the....oh wait, they're not tuning tools.

Enthalpy or JWT for your ECU. Tell them your MAF and Injectors, they'll send you an ECU. You plug it in, everything kicks ***, and you can do big 2nd gear burnouts all day long right from day one.

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Postby codyace » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:17 am

...and ditch that cometic HG

DrifterProdigy85
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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:38 am

Enthalpy and JWT are rock solid Tunes. I know my Enthalpy is incredibly safe. I run 19psi on 9.0 CR pistons without a problem. I may even be able to do 20psi on 93 octane. I do think more power can be had from a standalone just because every engine is a little different so the timing maps have to be tweaked.

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby codyace » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:08 am

DrifterProdigy85 wrote:Enthalpy and JWT are rock solid Tunes. I know my Enthalpy is incredibly safe. I run 19psi on 9.0 CR pistons without a problem. I may even be able to do 20psi on 93 octane. I do think more power can be had from a standalone just because every engine is a little different so the timing maps have to be tweaked.
I'm sure you'll agree, but i'd rather have 9/10's of the power for 10/10's of the drivability with my our ROM tunes.

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homeslicej2
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Re: (codyace)

Postby homeslicej2 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:04 am

Just to clarify codyace, you're saying that a good ROM-tune will net better reliability than a good standalone tune (which gives better power capabilities). Never thought of that before.

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Neil
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Re: (homeslicej2)

Postby Neil » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 am

Not reliability... Drivability. ... when you can hop in your moderately modified car and have it not be quirky or feel like you need to go back for more tuning to smooth some things out, is what's worth giving up that extra 1/10th of peak hp potential.

I'm currently running an e-manage ultimate for my 555cc/gt2871r setup and it's teaching me all that... I have a pretty ghetto tune (leveled out afr's past 5500rpm, didnt touch timing) and it drives like crap on my commute to work. if I hold the throttle at one position to accelerate slowly, i can feel fluctuating hesitation as it climbs through rpm's... when it's cold it seems to idle fine but if I try to get the car rolling it will stall... bucking/misfiring at high rpm's.. it made 260whp at 10psi but it's just unpleasant to drive. Everywhere I go to ask for advice I get "why didn't you go standalone or get a rom-tune"

I'm seriously considering getting an enthalpy tune, but I've heard he tunes them just over the "too rich" line. in that case I assume an AFC would be in order to bring AFR's down to the high 12's instead of low 14's.

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grmreapr
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Re: (Neil)

Postby grmreapr » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:43 pm

http://home.aanet.com.au/nistune/i use it on my sr for 6 months now it it kicks *** never once had a problem freaking australians know their sh*t

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otterman
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Re: (Neil)

Postby otterman » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:11 pm

Neil wrote:I'm seriously considering getting an enthalpy tune, but I've heard he tunes them just over the "too rich" line. in that case I assume an AFC would be in order to bring AFR's down to the high 12's instead of low 14's.
This is not directed at you or anything so don't take it personally but I hate that kind of **** on forums.

"I've heard JWT tunes too rich""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too rich""I've heard JWT tunes too lean""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too lean"

One of these gets posted everytime people talking about rom-tuning. Where's the proof? I've never seen real proof to any of these claims. It seems to just be the classes case of "I heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."

Also, what's too rich? What's too lean?

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Re: (homeslicej2)

Postby codyace » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:42 pm

homeslicej2 wrote:Just to clarify codyace, you're saying that a good ROM-tune will net better reliability than a good standalone tune (which gives better power capabilities). Never thought of that before.
haha I did type that kinda odd huh?

I was saying, that most people dont' realize how nice stock ecu with a quality rom tune operates in a car. They just see HP and thats all they think about.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone has gotten in my car and said 'wait, this is a rom tune....it drives stock' or 'my XXXX has similar powre but doesn't operate nearly as easy as this' .... well I'd have a tr30r turbo
otterman wrote:
This is not directed at you or anything so don't take it personally but I hate that kind of **** on forums.

"I've heard JWT tunes too rich""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too rich""I've heard JWT tunes too lean""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too lean"

One of these gets posted everytime people talking about rom-tuning. Where's the proof? I've never seen real proof to any of these claims. It seems to just be the classes case of "I heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."

Also, what's too rich? What's too lean?
Rich and lean are obviously dependent on many things, including HP. It's hard to say what is and what isn't, without the setup. In the simplest and grand scheme of things, you want WOT and highest load in the 11ish AFR range....

The issue is, most of those shleps don't have the slightest clue of what they are even talking about. On top of that, it's funny how people AUTOMATICALLY blame a ROM tune.....before they even blame their missing vacuum caps, mis placed wires, etc etc.....

9.5/10 times people have a rom tune issue, it's due to a problem elsewhere in the car...not the tune....

ZL-Auto
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Re: (otterman)

Postby ZL-Auto » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:06 pm

otterman wrote:
This is not directed at you or anything so don't take it personally but I hate that kind of **** on forums.

"I've heard JWT tunes too rich""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too rich""I've heard JWT tunes too lean""I've heard Enthalpy tunes too lean"

One of these gets posted everytime people talking about rom-tuning. Where's the proof? I've never seen real proof to any of these claims. It seems to just be the classes case of "I heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."

Also, what's too rich? What's too lean?
That is because of all these BULK tunes dont perform identically on cars with different setups. Some people have really nice intakes, really nice turbo manifolds, injectors etc....and others use Garbage EBAY crap that flows like a dirty K&N filter.

So to have a somewhat rude answer for all of this, any custom tune will always be better than a "chip" .........UNLESS a tuner is burning that chip while your car is being TUNED. And a management system leaves the door wide open for upgrades........ a chip = buy another one
Modified by ZL-Auto at 9:30 PM 2/27/2008

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Re: (ZL-Auto)

Postby codyace » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:23 pm

ZL-Auto wrote:That is because of all these BULK tunes are garbage, no computer chip will perform identically with 100 different setups. Some people have really nice intakes, really nice turbo manifolds, injectors etc....and others use Garbage EBAY crap that flows like a dirty K&N filter.
All garbage? Every one.

400+whp on my car on a rom tune, on my turbo, with my garbage stock manifold is plenty more than anyone with any custom setup with my turbo. Did I mention an off the shelf, first time go chip from JWT?

My buddies Sentra dynoed 360 on a spud at 17 psi on his Sentra....not to bad for another 'garbage' tune.

At this point in the game, with companies like JWT and Enthalpy having tuned hundreds of SR20 cars, they have a very good clue of what mods require what changes in the tuning, and can offer a truely off the shelf solution for their customer. On top of that, any user can easily datalog their car, send the parameters back to JWT or Enthalpy, and get a second chip burned for thier car. I wouldn't say that's a bad deal, especially for total cost involved, and easy of install (one 10mm bolt and a harness plug).
ZL-Auto wrote: any custom tune will always be better than a "chip"
Any? Forget about it. Why on earth do you say such things?

Again, sure you can 'potentially' (key is potentially) make more HP than a rom tune, but 85% of custom tunes never ever ever retain the driveability and niceness that the stock ECU offers.

No offense, but spending another 1200-1500 for a standalone to 'squeak' a few more HP out of my setup is out of the question....there is just NO need for a standalone on a car under 400 whp. Heck my ECU (garbage according to you) has launch control built in, has a water injection program, built in, and will soon have a second higher launch control (for drag tires) built in.... not to shabby for a garabge ROM huh?


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Re: (codyace)

Postby ZL-Auto » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:29 pm

I am sure your ECU is not the run of the mill program that everyone gets....

As i said in my post each setup will respond differently to these chips.

I have seen your build threads, you didnt use any junky parts, so good results are to be expected.

just my $.02 - almost every car that we build that is going to be more than a 300whp car gets a management system, plain and simple, PFC for the most part, our race car and my S14 are AEM equipped. It makes life simpler!

I am not saying that alot of people opt to use the ECU chip procedure, especially easier for a do it yourselfer who may not have the access or contact to a Tuner.

- Rephrased some of my wording in first post -

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Re: (ZL-Auto)

Postby RPS13 DRIFTER » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:26 pm

i heard that bad tuning is what messed up my engine.i have not compresstion tested it yet but im pretty sure its a bad ring.(it might be detenaton) I ran 14PSi on stock ECU, SOHC MAF, and a walborro pump and i started having blow by threw the dipstick untill it up and died.i dont know if having a filter on the T from the valve cover help the crankcase venting.

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Re: (RPS13 DRIFTER)

Postby grmreapr » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:21 pm

RPS13 DRIFTER wrote:i heard that bad tuning is what messed up my engine.i have not compresstion tested it yet but im pretty sure its a bad ring.(it might be detenaton) I ran 14PSi on stock ECU, SOHC MAF, and a walborro pump and i started having blow by threw the dipstick untill it up and died.i dont know if having a filter on the T from the valve cover help the crankcase venting.
What where you running with a sohc maf??? that would def cause your afr to be messed up especially being boosted I dont think it was you tune a little more ibfo on the subject and we might be able to help where you running ka-t or sr or rb????

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Re: (grmreapr)

Postby RPS13 DRIFTER » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:56 pm

SR20,front mount,turbo back,14 psi,walboro.

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grmreapr
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Re: (RPS13 DRIFTER)

Postby grmreapr » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:06 pm

ok you sure your running a sohc maf and not a sr maf??? second if your running a stock t25 pushing a full bar of boost is pushing its limits and it wont last for long at that amount.

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homeslicej2
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Re: (ZL-Auto)

Postby homeslicej2 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:51 am

Okay, I got you guys. I only plan on ~300whp one day. I plan on just getting a ROM-tune by a good tuner while on the Dyno. JWT and Enthaply are good, but I remember SCC's JWT ECU'd Silvia getting ~17 more whp with fine tuning on the dyno with same good driveability. Didn't mean to start a Standalone vs Rom-tune debate. Interesting stuff though.

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Postby slik_s13 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:30 am

im currently running a sr w/ gt2871r, 740cc injectors and a z32 maf, and im not looking for huge power. i went with a enthalpy tune. my hopes are retain good driveability with my setup.


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