What the Versa Sport should/could be.

[feloniousmonk]

But it won't happen.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/0...hatch/

[CodeRed]

It should have been turbo.

[Andrews Chalmers]

Unfortunately, Nissan thinks that the hot hatch market is too small in the United States for them to spend the resources to create it.

I don't blame them. They'll be going head to head against great platforms like the Golf GTI, or Mazdaspeed 3. Ford is currently contemplating whether to bring over the Focus RS... but I think the market is just too small.

In addition, the Versa's platform is just not very good for a cheap adaption to a hot hatch. The center of gravity is too high, the torsion bar suspension will have to be replaced, and Nissan frankly doesn't have a high torque at low rpm 4 cylinder at the moment...

[feloniousmonk]

I sort of agree with what you're saying, but did you look at the link I posted? The Versa shares a platform with the Clio. As long as there is a Renault Nissan alliance, it's a safe bet that future evolutions of the Clio platform could also underpin future Versas. Just about any platform can spin off sport versions with some tweaks to suspension components. Some times the suspension geometry is unchanged (GTI). Other obvious changes would be gearing, engine, steering ratio, limited slip, traction/dynamics control, etc.

Nissan as a brand is quietly moving away from performance. The spike we had in high gas prices taught every car manufacturer a painful lesson. They are all reacting to that, a bit too hastily in my opinion. The current fad to go green and be seen as green only reinforce that notion. For these reasons, I think it's pretty much a sure bet that we won't see a hot hatch any time soon. Once hybrids become common place, and battery technology catches up, only then will there be a chance for renewed attention to performance as an overall brand image. A performance hybrid Z (and there are already rumors for that) is more likely than a hot hatch though.

[feloniousmonk]

It should have been turbo.

And then it would in a higher price bracket with less to offer compared to the competition in that bracket. A 200 hp compact is no slouch. Want more? There's always the aftermarket.

[Andrews Chalmers]

I sort of agree with what you're saying, but did you look at the link I posted? The Versa shares a platform with the Clio. As long as there is a Renault Nissan alliance, it's a safe bet that future evolutions of the Clio platform could also underpin future Versas. Just about any platform can spin off sport versions with some tweaks to suspension components. Some times the suspension geometry is unchanged (GTI). Other obvious changes would be gearing, engine, steering ratio, limited slip, traction/dynamics control, etc.

I looked at the link. But while the Clio is related to the Nissan B platform, there is no "bet" that the Clio can also be the underpin of future Versas.

The basic Clio design indeed shares a platform, but so does the Nissan Murano and the old Altima, and current Maxima. The Clio had to make significant interior sacrifices, and it isn't even a particularly competitive hot hatch. The Clio isn't even considered a compact car, and is seen as a "super mini" on the other side of the Atlantic.

And I agree that any car can be made into "sport." It isn't hard to upgrade an existing car so it performs better than the original; that being said, it doesn't mean the new "Sport" car will be any good compared to its competitors. And if it can't compete with its competitors and generate profits - then the car company is just wasting money.

I've driven the Clio 197, I would never pick it over the Golf GTI. And the Clio 197 even has a lower center of gravity than the Versa and its front and rear torsion beam is better tuned for aggressive driving. But it is horrible on bad roads. As the saying goes - the grass is always greener on the other side.

Quote »Nissan as a brand is quietly moving away from performance.[/quote]Nissan introduced the 370 and the GT-R. How is that moving away from performance? Nissan is just smart enough to realize that in the entry-level market, Japanese cars are valued by most consumers ($$$$) if they have good interior space, a nice comfortable ride, and good fuel economy.

I hate to sound like Red Devil - but if you wanted Nissan to get you a performance vehicle, buy the 370. If you wanted a hot hatch? Buy the VW GTI. In the United States, Nissan never will create a compact entry-level model as a hot hatch. Why? Partially because the vehicle is unsuited, but most importantly? There simply isn't enough of a consumer demand/spending power.

Stereotypically, hot hatches appeals to young poor males who can't afford to upgrade. The profit margin for a car below 20,0000 is already slim enough. Spending millions more to develop a hot hatch from the Versa, while keeping it price-competitive with something like a Golf... is quite difficult if not impossible for Nissan.

I wouldn't call it a fad - just smart market research. Being boned-headed in product development will put Nissan in a situation like Chrysler or GM.

As for the rumored 370... I wouldn't dismiss it as a hybrid green fad. KERS can be beneficial in boosting performance.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Nissan an Renault have both done better:Micra 350SR:VQ35 in the back of a Micra.

RenaultSport V6 Clio. 3 liter V6 in the back.

Nissan as a brand is quietly moving away from performance.

About as quiet as a rock concert. HERE. TAKE OUR CVT. TAKE IT. TAKE IT OR WE'LL BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH IT.

[robj80]

Now if anyone from the SR20 boards see this post I will totally get flamed but I think the versa is a great platform for an SE-R type upgrade. Now I'm not talking about new SE-r but like nissan did back in the day.

Take the sedan for example. My 1.6 weighs about 2500lbs. Now I know I don't have alot of goodies but who cares for a tuner car. I think nissan should do a versa sedan or even hatch but cut weight down, add rear discs, upgrade suspension components and slap in a more powerful engine and a transmission with lsd. I'd hate to say it but the qr25 would do mighty fine in such a light car. And still get impressive mpgs.

Maybe just call it a sport and give it tiida type styling and I think nissan would have a hot little car.

[feloniousmonk]

Nissan introduced the 370 and the GT-R. How is that moving away from performance? Nissan is just smart enough to realize that in the entry-level market, Japanese cars are valued by most consumers ($$$$) if they have good interior space, a nice comfortable ride, and good fuel economy.

I work on the marketing. The brand positioning is different from last year. Yes, the Z and GT-R are performance vehicles. But those are two vehicles. Not the entire brand. The was a time when the direction was to speak to performance and dynamic handling as an overarching personality of the brand and all of its products.

Quote »I hate to sound like Red Devil - but if you wanted Nissan to get you a performance vehicle, buy the 370. If you wanted a hot hatch? Buy the VW GTI. In the United States, Nissan never will create a compact entry-level model as a hot hatch. Why? Partially because the vehicle is unsuited, but most importantly? There simply isn't enough of a consumer demand/spending power. [/quote]You have no idea who you're talking to. I've owned a Mk3 GTi with exhaust, custom cams, custom transmission gearing, limited slip differential, software, intake and coilover upgrades. Sold it to help start a business just before turbocharging it. Now, aside from the Versa, I have a BMW that has the same engine as the E46 M3. 3.2L M division motor with 6 individual drive-by-wire throttle bodies. In 2001 when it was introduced, it was the quickest production BMW ever. You don't need to educate me on what a hot hatch is and who it's meant for. I believe in Nissan enough to say with confidence that if they wanted to beat the GTi, they would (GT-R vs 911T, hello?) The will just isn't there for now.

Quote »As for the rumored 370... I wouldn't dismiss it as a hybrid green fad. KERS can be beneficial in boosting performance.[/quote]Did I call the rumored hybrid Z as a fad? No I didn't. The "fad" statement a general statement in context of the current market mood. And some fads do become convention. As for KERS, McLaren and several top notch F1 engineers have publicly said that it is irrelevant to road going cars. But the experiment will help to push the envelope on battery technology, which is never a bad thing.... fad or not.
Modified by feloniousmonk at 7:36 PM 5/6/2009

[Andrews Chalmers]

You have no idea who you're talking to. I've owned a Mk3 GTi with exhaust, custom cams, custom transmission gearing, limited slip differential, software, intake and coilover upgrades. Sold it to help start a business just before turbocharging it. Now, aside from the Versa, I have a BMW that has the same engine as the E46 M3. 3.2L M division motor with 6 individual drive-by-wire throttle bodies. In 2001 when it was introduced, it was the quickest production BMW ever. You don't need to educate me on what a hot hatch is and who it's meant for. I believe in Nissan enough to say with confidence that if they wanted to beat the GTi, they would (GT-R vs 911T, hello?) The will just isn't there for now.

I'm not sure why you're appearing so defensive. Of course I don't know what you do for a living or what you have owned in the past. Your long ownership history doesn't address my fundamental point.

Which is "In the United States, Nissan never will create a compact entry-level model as a hot hatch. Why? Partially because the vehicle is unsuited, but most importantly? There simply isn't enough of a consumer demand/spending power."

There are not enough Nissan fans in the United States who will make a Nissan hot hatch profitable. In addition, the Versa platform, as it exists today - is not going to be competitive against icons like the GTI, making entry into the market even harder.

[2dr_sentra]

I am so tired of hearing " should have bought a Z or something along those lines. Not all of us can afford a $30,000+ car. If you can GOOD for you!

Honeslty, the versa wouldnt be a bad car but its design on the MR motor is bad, i hate the exhaust facing the firewall crap. It makes everything that much harder.Even though im not a huge fan of the QR25, they should have thrown that into the versa with 165-175hp, besides its recalls and all its BS, i dont think it would have been a bad idea for the Versa, However, It is what it is. The Versa is probably going to stay the way it is.

I dont understand the need for all these threads about "how nissan should have done it differently" cause yes they should have but didnt. End of story.

Every other little hatch is flying past the Versa and its not looking back, even the Yaris has more aftermarket support for it, the Fit, Mazda 3, everything is blowing past the Versa in every which way.

Sometimes i regret buying the Versa, other than its roomy and has a 6 speed.

[Bubs daddy]

It would seem that that many (including me) that are satisfied with the Versa because it is used as intended. A versatile, low price point, commuter hatchback.

If one is disappointed in the Versa because of lack of aftermarket go fast accessories, one may consider why they bought the car in the first place. It's marketed, sold, and built to be what it is-an entry level small car.

Buying it and crossing your fingers for aftermarket support for hot rod goodies may not have been the best strategy. Buying a car that has been around much longer with an established aftermarket rather than buying a new entry level economy car would have been the better choice.

[Papercarz]

I think....

My versa may be rebadged with that C L I O symbol on the back of that RS 200

[MinisterofDOOM]

Nissan introduced the 370 and the GT-R. How is that moving away from performance? Nissan is just smart enough to realize that in the entry-level market, Japanese cars are valued by most consumers ($$$$) if they have good interior space, a nice comfortable ride, and good fuel economy.

The 370z and GTR are two models out of a dozen-plus and the exception rather than the rule. Compare any current model to it's early-90s (nissan's heyday) counterpart and you'll see evidence of what monk said.

Nissan has done what Toyota did 10 years ago and started abandoning anything with soul in favor of things that move in profitable volumes. And understandable business move, but for those of us who grew up loving the company for it's inspiring products of the '90s, it's quite the disappointment. Everything's being blanded down to appeal to a wider audience and the soul is being stripped away because soul is offensive to the Camry cross-shoppers Nissan is looking to pick up. Everything has a CVT now. Models that have ALWAYS historically had manual transmissions have lost them suddenly. Big cars are shrinking and little cars are growing. Cars with well-defined roles are being redefined to sell to more profitable demographics. Ghosn's European small-car roots are carrying over to Nissan whose best products were big cars before he stepped in things. He's killing off models that were NEVER big sellers because they're not selling well. He doesn't understand how to operate an American luxury-tier brand, as he's proven as he's stomped everything good about Infiniti into the ground. He's so busy selling lots and lots and lots and lots of Versas that he's forgotten to keep what ONCE made Nissan Nissan alive. Now the chrome hamburger just represents Renault Japan and any of the old Nissan meaning has disappeared in exchange for volume volume volume. You're all driving Renaults for crying out loud.

Where's my "too aggressive for most people" M45? Where's the Maxima that gets mentioned in the same sentences as the 3 series? Where's the Sentra that dominates autocross events? These cars all died to make way for increased sales. Now we have an M45 with last-years engines, a Maxima with a CVT and a midsize interior, and a Sentra that not even a mother could love (and I don't just mean the looks). If it's not a Versa, Altima, or G Ghosn couldn't care less about it. If that's not a move away from performance I don't know what is.

I don't think Ghosn understands how brand image works. Just because a halo car doesn't sell well doesn't mean it's a bad investment. Even if you lose money on THAT model, if it reinforces your brand image and helps sell more of a DIFFERENT model (Altima?) you've gained from it. But instead of embracing that, he's making EVERYTHING "efficient" from a corporate standpoint. Nissan needs something more interesting to stand behind than the G35 and Altima.

[Ginsu]

I have very mixed feelings on this discussion (OP). Some days I see a Mazda 3 and think that I should have splurged for the Speed3. I don't like how gutless the Versa is, especially with the CVT. On the other hand, if I did have a performance hatchback, I would probably look at the Versa's driving by and wish I had better fuel economy, build quality, and resale value than the Mazda.Perhaps a good compromise would be about 140-150 hp?

[versaspeed.com]

I have very mixed feelings on this discussion (OP). Some days I see a Mazda 3 and think that I should have splurged for the Speed3. I don't like how gutless the Versa is, especially with the CVT. On the other hand, if I did have a performance hatchback, I would probably look at the Versa's driving by and wish I had better fuel economy, build quality, and resale value than the Mazda.Perhaps a good compromise would be about 140-150 hp?

When I started my Versa project over a year ago my idea was to keep the Versatility and Gas millage of the Versa or if you will the original concept of the car while making it more fun to drive both day to day and when the occasion arises....spirited and keeping in mind the total price being palatable for the upgrades and I think I’ve been able to do it and just to make sure of durability I’ve got about fifty thousand miles on most of the components with out any problems either to the components or to the car.....just the oil/filter changes every seven thousand miles. People in the SoCal region that has been to the events and seen/driven the car I think can back me up on this.

[APEXi240]

You are paying almost $24,000 for the "stripped down" Clio Cup car. Too much money for what you are getting. Too many other options at that price point.

Cool looking car though.