What's my next road trip car?

[Jesda]

This morning I finished yet another road trip, 6500 miles. The Seville has tacked on about 40,000 miles in just a year (currently 147k). At this rate, it will see almost 200k by the end of 2012.

In a year or two, maybe sooner, I'll perhaps sell this Cadillac and find something else to rack up the miles. I'm quietly sniffing around the used car market, which is unfortunately overvalued due to the side-effects of Cash for Clunkers. The deals I used to come across quite easily have become a bit scarce.

So, for $5k-$10k (closer to $5k, preferably), I'm wondering what's out there.

The Seville's good points:
Ride quality!
Seating comfort and driving position
Smoothness
Powerful sound system
Styling and appearance
Quiet cabin
Better than expected real world fuel economy (25 mpg highway)
Surprisingly good reliability, so far.
Outstanding in snow and rain
Heated front and rear seats
High grade of leather
Generous luggage space

The Seville's bad points:
Repair costs
Big turning radius
Not DIY-friendly due to being a FWD V8
Front wheel drive
Smallish back seat
A few cheap interior bits (I had to reglue the dashboard top)
Expecting the Northstar's head gasket to take a dump on me at or before 200k


Bear in mind that whatever I buy will primarily be an 80mph jukebox on wheels, roaming flat interstates for days at a time. I need room for the dog, two or three people, and four suitcases.

Contenders:
04+ Jaguar XJ8 [aluminum body] -- High repair costs, very high build quality, light weight, wonderfully snooty looks, intoxicating leather scent, expensive aluminum body repair costs, a bit narrow.
05+ Chrysler 300C -- Big V8, surprisingly good handling, gobs of interior space, rat fur carpeting, cheap door panel and dashboard materials, belt line is too high to hang my arm out the window, pretty gauges, big comfy chairs, unfortunate theft target.
03+ Lincoln LS -- Rides well, good ergonomics, THX multimedia system, handles exceptionally and surprisingly well, smells too much like a Ford inside, sharp and clean styling, tendency to eat through coil packs, low resale value makes it a tremendous bargain
97+ BMW E39 -- Handles well, cramped interior, sensitive cooling system, preferred E39 would be powered by an inline-six with rack and pinion steering. Potential electrical issues. Aging.
06+ Cadillac DTS -- Wrong wheel drive, outstanding in the snow, generous interior space, high level of comfort and refinement, preferred by too many old folks and taxi drivers, solid reliability, cheap insurance, pleasant interior, annoyingly huge turning radius.
03-04 M45 -- Powerful V8, bold styling, loads of technology, small back seat

Does anyone have personal experience with any of these? What else am I leaving out?

The Lincoln Town Car would be #1 for comfort but the ride is just a bit too squishy and disconnected for my tastes. I like how my Seville STS [with CVRSS] feels solidly and firmly planted to the road without floating, bobbing, or weaving. And it never feels rough or excessively taut. I'm looking for that same perfect balance.

I don't really trust anything Mercedes-Benz made between 2000 and 2008.

The Jaguar S-type looked sharp when it first hit the market but now it seems a bit dowdy. Never driven one, however.









F*** Lexus.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Hard to pick.

Y34 or LS8 would be my first choices.
E39 and XJ8 are second.

[Bubba1]

Too bad about the F*** Lexus. I would have suggested an old LS400. Dull but very reliable road trip vehicles. Gobbles up the miles in comfort. Some thoughts.

JAg. Besides being unreliable, expensive to fix, the aluminum body is also ridiculously expensive to repair. I have a good friend who leased one. It's plenty comfortable, handles well despite its heft, and has an old school charm to it. But that charm disappears when it starts breaking. His was new, you're talking older used one out of warranty. I'd avoid it. FWIW, He drives an Audi now.

Chrysler 300. I rented one in Chicago and was impressed with it. Not thrilled about the small windows but it is comfortable, roomy, nicely styled, and the hemi's got some oomph, and reasonable priced. the issue with Chrysler is it uses uber cheap components that don't last as long as other cars. If you can find a low mileage garage queen, you might fare okay. Oneof my closest friends just bought a new one, but he also trades his cars every 3 yrs.

Lincoln LS. My mechanic bought a used one for his wife, and it's been generally reliable, he did have some major transmission problems with it. It came in handy that he could fix it himself. Would have been very big bucks. It's a pleasant driving car, but it's got a similar problem as Chrysler, cheap components.

BMW: ridiculously expensive to fix when (not if) something wears out or breaks.
Like the Jag, nice to drive, painful to own.

Infiniti M: nice choice. Reliable, fast and comfortable, but you nailed it , the back seats are a bit disappointing and the styling is love it/hate it. I found it blandly styled.

Caddy DTS: Not big Caddy fan, though it is big/comfortable and better than a Town car. As info CR put it's reliability at only average.

OTher cars to consider: Infiniti G (smaller, more reasonably priced than an M, yet comfortable on a long trip, and competent for a fling on the Carlisle autocross course)

Acura RL (pre smiley face nose), no one notices them, but they're nice road trip vehicles.

1995.5 Audi S6. LAst of the over engineered Audi Sedans. Coveted by Audiphiles.
Fast, reliable, comfortable, handles well, real back seat, real trunk, good looking.. The S6 Avant (the wagon version) is a wonderful road trip vehicle. My buddy is selling his. Been on some looong roadtrips in that car. Very comfortable.

[Kompresshun]

Y34 or LS8 would be my first choices.
E39 and XJ8 are second.

^Ditto

I think the LS is the best out of the bunch, but i've never driven a Q at all, so I might have a different opinion if I did. The last two LS's i've driven have been nothing short of awesome for the money they can be purchased for. If I were replacing the I30 right now, it would be with a LS or a Q hands down.

As for other models - If I were to consider anything else it would be a Mercury Marauder. It makes good power, is comfortable, and super reliable because it's a P71.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Lincoln LS. My mechanic bought a used one for his wife, and it's been generally reliable, he did have some major transmission problems with it. It came in handy that he could fix it himself. Would have been very big bucks.

Trans problems were largely fixed by '03. The car changed a LOT between '02 and '03...enough that most people consider the '03+ the second generation model.

[Mr1der]

Mustang GT.

Get American as s*** up in there.

what's more American than a road trip and what's more iconic than a Mustang GT for such a purpose.

I'm talking 60's GT.

you said you wanted old American iron anyway.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I'd try a pontiac G8

I drove my friend's GTO over thanksgiving, and was pretty impressed with the room, powertrain, and comfort. Downside is questionable looks. Bigass highway gear will chew up the miles, and you'll get kickass gas mileage to boot.

[Kompresshun]

I'd try a pontiac G8

I drove my friend's GTO over thanksgiving, and was pretty impressed with the room, powertrain, and comfort. Downside is questionable looks. Bigass highway gear will chew up the miles, and you'll get kickass gas mileage to boot.

A buddy of mine has a 04 GTO with the LS1 and I absolutely love that thing. He get's 28mpg hwy out of the thing with a 6spd manual and the power is always there when you need it, but it still has good ride comfort and is fairly reliable. He has 200k miles on his as of right now(I'm pretty sure he drives more than Jesda) and has had not major issues yet. He's put in a clutch and replaced the rear CV Axles with upgraded ones, but other than that it's just kept going. He's laying down about 415hp with it now too. It's probably one of my favorite coupes that can be had for less than $15k.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Oh yeah, I guess I sort of neglected Jesda's budget requirements. Oops.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I occasionally wish I had bought an LS2 GTO rather than my Lincoln.

I think the LS8 has a better chassis, though, and it's actually lighter than the GTO to boot.

[Jesda]

I had a 1998 LS400 for about 2 months. Silky engine, amazing Nakamichi sound system, exceptional fuel economy (27mpg!), annoying transmission. That 5-speed Aisin gearbox really hates being told what to do (and it wasn't just that particular car). It ruined an otherwise excellent vehicle. Body motion was also a bit too loosey goosey, though that wasn't a big deal to me.

You know, the Mustang isn't a bad suggestion. Modern Mustangs are comfy, powerful, reliable, and handle well. The problem is the lack of space for passengers and a month of luggage.

Audi frightens me a bit more than Jaguar. WTF is up with all the weird secondary coolant pumps/pipes and such? It's as if someone went in there and did a round of last-minute engineering just to troll people.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

To this day, I think Wes' Q is the most comfortable sedan I've ever been in, possibly the most comfortable mode of transportation (including trains and airplanes).

[MinisterofDOOM]

The Q has amazing driver ergonomics and one of the best driver seats of any car I've ever driven. You can be very comfortable and relaxed and still have every control in the car within easy reach, even if you're tall.

[Bubba1]

I had a 1998 LS400 for about 2 months. Silky engine, amazing Nakamichi sound system, exceptional fuel economy (27mpg!), annoying transmission. That 5-speed Aisin gearbox really hates being told what to do (and it wasn't just that particular car). It ruined an otherwise excellent vehicle. Body motion was also a bit too loosey goosey, though that wasn't a big deal to me.

You know, the Mustang isn't a bad suggestion. Modern Mustangs are comfy, powerful, reliable, and handle well. The problem is the lack of space for passengers and a month of luggage.

Audi frightens me a bit more than Jaguar. WTF is up with all the weird secondary coolant pumps/pipes and such? It's as if someone went in there and did a round of last-minute engineering just to troll people.

After 1995, Audi followed the same dark path the other German manufacturers did, Added gobs of unnecessary technology and forgot that the simple teutonic goodness is what got them their reputations. those 1995 Audis are the last ones before Audi veered from quality and toward complexity, and when its reliability began trending down, like the other German marques. But I'd fear Jag more, as they've consistently ranked among the least reliable vehicles you can buy.

As far as the current generation mustang. The general rule is the newer the better. The brand new ones, like the Boss302 Laguna Sega, are very good. But the older ones were built cheaply, and not have not been particularly reliable. As far as a mustang for a long distance road warrior, it would suck compared to those luxury sedans you're looking at.

The most comfortable seats I;ve been in is unfortunately out of your price range. It was a newer Mercedes S500. It had over 30 electric motors, and not only had memory once you got just the way you wanted it, it had heat and a/c in the seats + two different types of massage modes with several intensity settings. Aaaaaaaah. I could easily endure a road trip in that.

[Jesda]

I'd fear Jag more, as they've consistently ranked among the least reliable vehicles you can buy.

That hasn't really been true since the early 90s.

The brand tends to rank above average, with the main areas of concern being electronic accessories (mirrors, power seats, radio, etc) and specific years of the AJ V8 (1997-2000) with timing chain tensioner issues and nikasil problems. Fortunately, all of that was before the aluminum XJ8 arrived. What does concern me, however, are the costs when a repair or service actually comes due. All of those little things that like to break, whether its a hose here or a blower motor or who knows what else, can add up to thousands. Ugh.

So, I'd never get stranded, but my wallet might. We also lost our only Jaguar dealer in the St Louis metro area. While there's several independent Euro specialists here, they mostly do German cars or much older British cars.

My old Saab is an ongoing project and expense, and I want to restore and drive it until its dead. So I'd like my long-distance car to be cheap to run for a change. Unfortunately, anything cheap to own and operate has a tendency to be pretty boring.




My favorite Audi is the D2 A8, but their disposable transmissions make Dodge Intrepids look dependable. Do you know anything about the D3s?



I've also ruled out the 2005+ RWD Cadillac STS since they have potentially painful non-mechanical repair costs. It's not something I'd want to own out of warranty. The CTS is too small. Volvo S80 has costly electrical issues, which is unfortunate because the interior is beautiful.



I can't find any bad reviews of the Y34 M45. I'm not a fan of having to use the LCD screen to access certain functions; I generally prefer a mess of buttons and knobs to layers of menus. And then there's the stories of VK45 V8s taking a dump on their owners and guzzling several quarts of oil for no reason at all. It otherwise seems like a pretty outstanding driver's sedan with muscle car proportions, appealing strongly to the Reagan-era side of my brain.

I could find a decent M for $8-$10k. A Lincoln LS of the same year and mileage would be $6k-$8k.

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/m45/ ... i-m45.html

[Bubba1]

According the publication you use to line your birdcage, JAg's reliability as a brand has been consisitently below average. Though it did improve a couple years under Ford from much worse than average to worse than average. I suppose one could argue that's an improvement. But what's always been interesting about Jaguar is that despite poor reliability, owner satisfaction has always been above average. Both my dad and my Jaguar owning friend have always maintained their Jags were their favorite cars......when they ran right, which unfortunately was not often. But the typical Jag owner also has a backup car when the Jaaaaag is tied up in the shop.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eWIrBOc3zE[/youtube]


I've had a couple students in D2's, (Yep, on the race track) but have only driven a D3 on the street. They are quite nimble given their size and weight. I think prefer the D2 over the D3 too. Both are extremely comfortable cars, the D2 has fewer gimmicks and look nicer. Both interiors are just gorgeous. The two things that scare me about them is the cost to repair them out of warranty, and the high cost of doing bodywork to that aluminum body. I'd be afraid to park it in a mall parking lot for fear of dings. If I were looking for a similarly sized German sedan, I might look more at a VW Phaeton (without the W12) before an A8/S8, as they have a steel body.

FWIW, CU liked the Infiniti M's a lot, both new and older ones, moreso than the Lincoln LS. M is a lotta car for the money.

[Jesda]

The Q has amazing driver ergonomics and one of the best driver seats of any car I've ever driven. You can be very comfortable and relaxed and still have every control in the car within easy reach, even if you're tall.

I've yet to be in anything as ergonomically perfect as the G50 Q.

[frapjap]

I can't find any bad reviews of the Y34 M45. I'm not a fan of having to use the LCD screen to access certain functions; I generally prefer a mess of buttons and knobs to layers of menus. And then there's the stories of VK45 V8s taking a dump on their owners and guzzling several quarts of oil for no reason at all. It otherwise seems like a pretty outstanding driver's sedan with muscle car proportions, appealing strongly to the Reagan-era side of my brain.

I could find a decent M for $8-$10k. A Lincoln LS of the same year and mileage would be $6k-$8k.

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/m45/ ... i-m45.html

THIS. Until you posted it, that was going to be my suggestion.

Have you got anything against the new Taurus? Used are coming around and from renting them from various companies, I really like the car. Might be worth looking into. Big, quick, extremely comfy, tech goodies to boot.

[Jesda]

Are the Taurii down to $10k already?

I don't want to finance depreciating assets anymore.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Have you got anything against the new Taurus? Used are coming around and from renting them from various companies, I really like the car. Might be worth looking into. Big, quick, extremely comfy, tech goodies to boot.

I sure have. It's 33% as big inside as it is outside, like some kind of reverse TARDIS. Where'd all the space go?!
And the AWD system is useless.
And it handles like a dead whale.
And the SHO costs as much as $45K. That's mindnumbing. For FORTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS there's a whole FLEET of real options.
And the Fusion is ten times the car the Taurus is, for comparable pricing to non-SHO models. Passenger/interior space is BARELY different between the two.

New Taurus is a joke. It's not good at anything, its size isn't justified by passenger space or visual proportions, and it isn't fun to drive.

[Bubba1]

Agree. I think Ford went in the wrong direction with the new Taurus, and the right direction with the Fusion. Despite it's plummeting resale value, the current gen Taurus is still a bit more money than what Jesda wants to spend.

[skydragoness]

My vote is for the Q!
Especially since it's a car you're already familiar with.

[elwesso]

I would vote for a 97-01 Q In your case. More reliable than a G50, more room and cruises really nicely. The g50 has way more power on the interstate but 0-60 is pretty close.

The main thing I don't like about the y34 is they have basically the interior right out of a g35, which I'm not terribly impressed with.

Since you like the Cadillac i wonder if you could get into a Buick Lucerne. Yeah it's an old folks car but 3800SC has enough power, reliable and cheap repairs. Also has a great ride, awesome seats, huge trunk, and a massive back seat.

Why don't you get 95 fleetwood brougham? it cannot get any better than that for a road trip car.

[Mr1der]

Just sayin'...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mus ... 2c61aa32aa

[Jesda]

I would vote for a 97-01 Q In your case. More reliable than a G50, more room and cruises really nicely. The g50 has way more power on the interstate but 0-60 is pretty close.

The main thing I don't like about the y34 is they have basically the interior right out of a g35, which I'm not terribly impressed with.

Since you like the Cadillac i wonder if you could get into a Buick Lucerne. Yeah it's an old folks car but 3800SC has enough power, reliable and cheap repairs. Also has a great ride, awesome seats, huge trunk, and a massive back seat.

Why don't you get 95 fleetwood brougham? it cannot get any better than that for a road trip car.

Fleetwood would be more of a collector car, and they've aged quite a bit.

A late-model Y33 Q isn't a bad idea at all. I don't know why I didn't think of one before. Maybe its because they're always in the shadow of the G50. I don't really even think of them as Infinitis.

That neutered 4.1L motor would be quite a step down from the 300hp Northstar, and fuel economy would be a step down too, but it does have rock solid reliability in its favor (no transmission issues that I'm aware of?).

You've given me something to ponder.

[elwesso]

The y33 is an awesome cruiser. It's just a tiny bit more plush, a tiny bit bigger back seat, a tiny bit bigger trunk which all add up to a better cruiser than a G50. Most the common issues on those cars are easy to fix, no major mechanical issues and many see 250k on the original transmission.

Without having driven a STS on the highway it will be hard to compare. I thought about getting a Y33 as a daily driver and almost went and looked at one , until the CTS-v came along.

[frapjap]

Instead of one car, why not 5 cheaper cars?
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/2768620358.html
'91 M5

http://worcester.craigslist.org/ctd/2664803928.html
'90 Allante

http://providence.craigslist.org/cto/2724245673.html
'91 Olds Trofeo

http://southcoast.craigslist.org/cto/2674001995.html
'91 volvo 240

On a serious note- Volvo S60R?
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/2766159180.html

[Rex]

My suggestions given your price range (some are hard to fit <$10k) in age order
1995 Q45 - something from the south to avoid the rust
2000 Q45
2003 Maxima Better styling, and no timing belt, manuals can be found
2004-ish Maxima - only b/c I'd want one with the "2 passenger" rear seat.
2004-05 Audi 4.2 allroad - good styling, plenty of room, no timing belt, trans issues seem to be limited to the 2.7t (which was available as a stick)
2004-07 Mazda6 Wagon - good styling (if optioned correctly), plenty of room and no timing belt, manuals can be found

If you could find a stick shift W8 Wagon with document proof the cam adjusters had been replaced, that would be nice as well.

Maybe even an XC90 if you're into the Saturday morning soccer field scene, just watch out for the early V8's.

I like the 2006-ish RL as well, but I just don't see you getting anywhere near one for $10k.

1999 Q45 $5k http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/2770589280.html
2000 Q45 $5k http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/2750483621.html
2003 Maxima $10k http://stlouis.craigslist.org/ctd/2759899830.html (they have it listed 2 more times, same day, raising price?!?!?!)
2003 Maxima $9k http://stlouis.craigslist.org/ctd/2731922883.html

If you look at the Mazda 6 Wagons, look for ones with the extra body parts


Crazy Maxima Sports Coupe rear seat

[Jesda]

Ray:

They're too old. I've got one old one already.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I like the 2006-ish RL as well, but I just don't see you getting anywhere near one for $10k.

I don't get the 2nd gen RL at all.

--It will never own the highway like a DTS or Seville, because it lacks torque.
--The chassis yields good ride quality but isn't particularly balanced or refined.
--I still don't understand the point of FWD-based AWD. Ford's is a waste. Honda's is more advanced but still feels like a lot of buzzwords that add up to a halfassed attempt at reaching a middle ground no one ever wanted in the first place. DTS never needed "up to 70%" of its power going to the rear. And it made a lot more power. MKS and RL both fail. Either turn the engine 90 degrees or leave the rear wheels alone.
--$50k+ for an underpowered V6. FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!! You can buy a 5 Series for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, for under $60k you get a V6 in the Bimmer, too, but at least it has a chassis designed by the Germans. Oh, and torque.
--The looks are ultra-bland bordering on ugly. It's just a blob with a grille. Remember those paintbrush-stroke sillhouette ads Infiniti ran (still runs?). If the RL had one, it'd be a 120 degree arc. And the nose is pointy for some reason. It's so inoffensive looking it's offensive.
--It's really not particularly luxurious, especially for the pricetag. It's certainly no nicer inside than my dad's similar-age, $15k-cheaper Maxima. Which also happens to make more torque and handle better. Without sending "up to 70%" of it's power to the rear. And weighing less. And looking far more interesting.

Compare the RL to any other car and it comes up short. It's either far less car for the money, or far more money for the car, or far less power for the package, or far less luxury...
It just doesn't cut the mustard. It's an Accord with a rear differential and less ugly. I can't imagine ever getting enthusiastic about one.