What Nissan has to offer?

[300ZXttZMAN]

The Z is the heart and soul of Nissan -- don't need any GTR owner suggest otherwise.

That depends on where you are located, Jesda. There are people over here that will tell you the Fairlady is a great car, but the GT-R is what the people talk about in the Nissan crowd. Believe me, though...I am not taking ANYTHING away from the Fairlady. I will own an early 70's S30 before I die. Burnt Orange with black wheels and overfenders.

might I suggest black mesh wheels

Something about those damn quarter glasses just seriously kill me everytime I see one. Gah I love Z's.

And we know that your not taking anything away from the fairladys

[Jesda]

That depends on where you are located, Jesda.

Today's GTR is a rolling video game with styling that looks like a Chevy Cobalt on steroids. It's an engineering feat but it doesn't improve the connection between the driver and the road. It's also a dude magnet.


Some say the best sports cars make heroes out of amateur drivers, which the GTR does. I say, the best ones make the driver feel like a part of the car.


To Nissan's credit, a lot of people buy sports cars based on what they can do on paper, and the GTR, at least in brochures, is a masterpiece. Unfortunately, that mentality causes buyers to unfairly pass over real gems like the Ariel Atom, Honda S2000, and Mazda Miata.

[300ZXttZMAN]

^+1
How they went ~4 years here without one is beyond me.

This.

[Bubba1]

Today's GTR is a rolling video game with styling that looks like a Chevy Cobalt on steroids. It's an engineering feat but it doesn't improve the connection between the driver and the road. It's also a dude magnet.


Some say the best sports cars make heroes out of amateur drivers, which the GTR does. I say, the best ones make the driver feel like a part of the car.


To Nissan's credit, a lot of people buy sports cars based on what they can do on paper, and the GTR, at least in brochures, is a masterpiece. Unfortunately, that mentality causes buyers to unfairly pass over real gems like the Ariel Atom, Honda S2000, and Mazda Miata.

Well said.

[alphapig]

If you don't like CVTs however (you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on here that does), then that does eliminate a large part of Nissan's lineup for you.

Plus CVT removes some of the "fun to drive" factor, which enthusiasts like us find important. I think CVT and the return of a modest priced RWD, non-CVT,sporty coupe (last being the 240sx) would be among the best answers to the question, "what would you change about Nissan".

It's not just what you drive, it's how you drive it.

CVT is awesome for cruising.

There is absolutely no reason to use it in the hills, and Xtronic works very well.

[Bubba1]

It's not just what you drive, it's how you drive it.

CVT is awesome for cruising.

There is absolutely no reason to use it in the hills, and Xtronic works very well.

I agree with your statement BUT that only applies to the car as a whole. What I'm pointing is out the relative fun lost driving the SAME car but with different transmissions. Yes, one have have a hoot driving an Altima Coupe at it's limits, BUT if you think simply pushing a gas or brake pedal and letting a CVT make all the Alti's decisions for you is as much fun as sawing thru the gears yourself manually with a clutch or executing perfect heel/toe downshifts, (assuming you've learned how to do that) then I might question if you're a real enthusiast.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I might question if you're a real enthusiast.

Them's fightin words!

[Bubba1]

I might question if you're a real enthusiast.

Them's fightin words!

Okay,that might be a little too strong...

[tschatzinger]

Hey tschatzinger, has this been what you were looking for?

yep, good stuff guys!

[OriginalWheelman]

Nissan has them in their trucks! Infiniti has them in their vehicles, and SOME Nissans even offer manuals! (Note, I know you know this Chris, just pointing it out for the new guy).

If you don't like CVTs however (you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on here that does), then that does eliminate a large part of Nissan's lineup for you.

If you are comparing a CVT to a manual I agree. However, i would take a CVT over a normal auto any day of the week.

[Jesda]

I prefer a good auto to any CVT. GM's 4-speed Hydramatics are damn near perfect. ZF makes some excellent automatics as well.

[dre1507]

For me, aside from the not-so-cheap sports cars that nissan currently makes, the brand has has been dead to me since the '04 Maxima and Altima body styles were released. Over the years, my eyes have gotten used to the horror, but I distinctly remember when I first saw them how much I would just curse them. I tried my best to convince friends who were interested in them how ugly they were. Then the sentra took a hit. Nail in the coffin.

Nissan, aesthetically, before this era could have been summed up in one sentence. Simple styling that looks great. Now most of nissan's models are just gaudy and overly styled. There are many older nissans that I love and plan to own someday (aspiring collector of sorts). These newer abominations will receive no such kindness. This sentiment also goes for Toyota and Honda. Hopefully, Scion (I figure "Toyota" is now synonymous with blandness) will really deliver with the FR-S. Hopefully it will force nissan to get back into the cheap good-looking rwd sports car game, and honda back into creating something fun and aesthetically wonderful. Lord knows the civic is slowly becoming an all out bland mobile

[alphapig]

BUT if you think simply pushing a gas or brake pedal and letting a CVT make all the Alti's decisions for you is as much fun as sawing thru the gears yourself manually with a clutch or executing perfect heel/toe downshifts, (assuming you've learned how to do that) then I might question if you're a real enthusiast.

Of course not.

I have a 1974 Porsche 914 and I track motorcycles with me stepfather.

My point was that I drive my autotragic CVT 4banger very hard, and the nature of the car itself isn't nearly as important as how one drives it and what one does to it.

With some nice (not herrafrush) suspension and a reasonable driver an automatic Honda Fit can be a blast.

[MinisterofDOOM]

With some nice (not herrafrush) suspension and a reasonable driver an automatic Honda Fit can be a blast.

Right, but the whole point here is that automatic != CVT.

I tolerate the automatic in my LS because the rest of the car does things so right. The auto also has a manual mode that holds gears, which supports the kind of driving you're talking about. And it has a broad torque curve and well-designed ratios that rarely leave you with fewer than 3 good gear options.
With a CVT between the footwells, though, everything else the car does well would be undermined.

A CVT and even a regular automatic can only react, which is far less than a half-decent driver can do. The car will never be in the right gear BEFORE the apex of the turn. It'll never know to hold gears on that short straight where you're only barely going to top out 2nd. It'll never know exactly how many gears you want to drop when you trigger that downshift threshold. It can only guess, and only react based on limited input data. It doesn't know the road. It doesn't know your driving style. It can NEVER EVER think ahead. Driver can. Driver should always control gearshifts because he will always know what he needs.

Lots of cars have used tech to try and work around these failings, like Honda's system that holds gears through turns. But all that's really amounts to is more guesswork. Like walking through a hallway blind. Why leave the blindfold on when you can take it off?

CVT and Automatic transmissions are purely reactive. Manually shifted transmissions, even those without clutches (even those with torque converters!) are not. And don't give me 5 or 6 preset "gears" in a CVT as some kind of peace offering on those lines. If you feel the need to make your CVT not act like a CVT to make it tolerable, that's a pretty strong hint that YOU don't believe in it either.

I don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to be made dependent on THE CAR reacting correctly. That goes for transmissions, that goes for traction control, that goes for ABS, that goes for nonlinear electronic throttles, that goes for everything. I will tell the car what to do. It will do it. This is the order of things.

My Maxima was the same story as the LS: great car that does so many things right, held back by an automatic transmission. The Maxima's automatic was immeasurably more horrible, though. 4 gears, none of them right, terrible shift logic, sloppy shifts, and no manual mode. DESPITE that, the car was fantastic. But with a manual trans? That same Maxima is in a whole 'nother league.

[alphapig]

A CVT and even a regular automatic can only react, which is far less than a half-decent driver can do. The car will never be in the right gear BEFORE the apex of the turn. It'll never know to hold gears on that short straight where you're only barely going to top out 2nd. It'll never know exactly how many gears you want to drop when you trigger that downshift threshold. It can only guess, and only react based on limited input data. It doesn't know the road. It doesn't know your driving style. It can NEVER EVER think ahead. Driver can. Driver should always control gearshifts because he will always know what he needs.

Lots of cars have used tech to try and work around these failings, like Honda's system that holds gears through turns. But all that's really amounts to is more guesswork. Like walking through a hallway blind. Why leave the blindfold on when you can take it off?

CVT and Automatic transmissions are purely reactive. Manually shifted transmissions, even those without clutches (even those with torque converters!) are not. And don't give me 5 or 6 preset "gears" in a CVT as some kind of peace offering on those lines. If you feel the need to make your CVT not act like a CVT to make it tolerable, that's a pretty strong hint that YOU don't believe in it either.

I don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to be made dependent on THE CAR reacting correctly. That goes for transmissions, that goes for traction control, that goes for ABS, that goes for nonlinear electronic throttles, that goes for everything. I will tell the car what to do. It will do it. This is the order of things.

I'm a little confused with the reaction reasoning.

I completely agree that CVT is complete a** when it comes to guessing what you want. It is sluggish when you stomp on the gas, and any kind of anticipatory before-apex "shifting" is just a guessing game.

However Nissan did many things right, especially compared to the earlier Murano CVT.

Xtronic is not a peace offering, it is an integral part of the Altima CVT, and should be used regularly for full enjoyment of the car. Shifting into Xtronic while cruising automatically puts you in a lower "gear," as it guesses that you want revs to accelarate.

Like I said, when hitting the corners, there is no reason to rely on the CVT, and the pre-programmed "gears" are hardly guessing. Downshift twice before the corner, 4.5k revs for torque powerband, upshift on the way out.

Not as fun as manual, there's nothing like anticipating a turn with an a clutch.

However, I would never go back to a traditional automatic.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Xtronis is the name of the transmisson, not the shift mode. FWD CVT is Xtronic, RWD CVT IS Xtroid (not used in the US).

I'm confused by your confusion. Simple: I want the transmission to do exactly whatI want exactly when I want. I do not want it to guess what I might want after I already need it.

And manual mode being "integral" to three use of an automatic transmission is exactly what I take issue with. If what the CVT does is so wonderful why not stick to that?

[alphapig]

Xtronis is the name of the transmisson, not the shift mode. FWD CVT is Xtronic, RWD CVT IS Xtroid (not used in the US).

Good clarification.

I'm confused by your confusion. Simple: I want the transmission to do exactly whatI want exactly when I want. I do not want it to guess what I might want after I already need it.

When I want to cruise - auto.

When I want direct control over the revs - fake gears.

No guessing here sir.

Again, I agree with your manual transmission elitism. But CVT > traditional auto.

[Jesda]

Well, you can cruise with a manual too. It's not like you're shifting all the time when you have the cruise set.

As for CVTs, theyre prone to failure, expensive to replace, and that shiftless drone is obnoxious. Subaru does a decent job of simulating gear shifts. I'm on my way to Chicago right now in a 2011 Legacy with CVT.

[krash]

Right so, they make the CVT so women can put on their make up while driving and men can drink king size sodas while driving. Then after finding out how much it sucks, they have to simulate the gear changes.

I agree, CVT isn't my favorite thing in the world,

that shiftless drone is obnoxious.

just kind of leaves you hanging there. However, if your car has one, you really have no choice but to make the best of it.

Arguing about who has a better automatic trans is like arguing about whose turd looks healthier.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Arguing about who has a better automatic trans is like arguing about whose turd looks healthier.

QFT

That being said, dual clutch autos are the best. Best/fastest shifting, often the most efficient. Think GTR.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Well, you can cruise with a manual too. It's not like you're shifting all the time when you have the cruise set.

Or shifting ever. I can leave it in 5th (OD) and set cruise. Never need to downshift. Hills? Torque. 29mpg. CVT can suck my pubes.