What kind of gains from N/A motor?

[mkory]

Well... I'm needing monies for college, so I'm most likely going to sell my turbo kit. I am trying to think of a cheaper alternative that will still be quite some fun, and was wondering what kind of gains I could expect out of a good header (hotshot?) teamed with my 3" catback BRM exhaust system, intake, and mild polish job. What about if I add cams?

[dickie]

please search, the answers are all over the place!

for example, theres a thread about brm exhaust w/ dyno sheets just a few lines down...

[tonynalli]

i presume when you say "mild" polish job your refering to port and polish...well ive done one to one of my other motors and it made a pretty big difference..but what i figured if you head is off the car then why not do a heavy port and polish??? anyways....the 3 inch cat back will be LOUD with no snail to back it up...you car will be a little faster then it would be stock mabey3/4-1 second faster..adding cams is a great way to go..but you need to remeber..if you want more lower end toruqe you will sacrafice high end power... and visa-versa..but in a 240 your more then likely wanting high end power...but those will cost you a pretty penny for some decent ones..hell if you already have a kit then with all of these mods your talkigna bout you might as well save the money and finish the kit...

[Edub1]

I'm ditching my turbo too. If you're SOHC there is a great post on cams - "camshaft guide." DOHC you have more options.

Anyway, I'm going with the Pacesetter header & a custome 2.5" because a steel pipe is a steel pipe.

Anyway, I'm betting 15HP from a cam + 15 from exhaust (I've seen the dyno) + another 10 from a good tune. Then probably a few more with everything together.

I'm betting on gaining a solid +40 HP but I'd settle for 30.

Stay away from over priced name brand crap and it can be had for $500

[InsanityInc]

Stay away from over priced name brand crap and it can be had for $500

I wouldn't say a lot of it is overpriced. Pacesetter headers suck because they're just painted, which chips off, and then they rust and crack. Hotshot and DCsports headers are both ceramic coated. Also, crap exhaust systems usually sound like it, and they generally have crap mufflers as well (louvred core a lot of the time). Bad welds with cheap stuff is always a concern as well.

[Edub1]

Dude, it's a steel pipe. That slut can rust all it wants - and I don't think it will crack. If it does, I'll weld it. BTW, a 2.5" pipe from Tuffy with a thrush muffler up front will do everything the expensive ones will and probably sound better. Hate to break it to you but you're just paying for a name.

[mkory]

The exhaust system I already have is awesome. BRM 3" catback with a 22" resonator. It sounds absolutely amazing on my totally stock motor. I'll come up with some sounds if anybody wants them. Anyways...

I thought I could polish my head without actually taking the head off. That's why I didn't say port and polish.

[tonynalli]

you can but....its dangerous...not really for the exaust side but more the intake side...but youd be getting real close to the valves..and if you nick a valve with a die grinder or dremel.. then your screwed..you can open the ports a litle with no problem....or match the gaskets

[dickie]

yeah id like to hear your 3" exhaust on stock motor, cory. im thinking about getting one, but i live in a little burb with nazi cops... and i like my neighbors.

[mkory]

I'll see what I can do to get you a clip real quick like. It's damn cold here and I dont like running her too hard, but I'll do what I can.

Where is Benbrook anyways? I spend my summers in Sugarland (SW side of Houston) and I'll be down there the first week in January, and with my car this upcoming summer.

BTW... It's Mike Kory.

[InsanityInc]

Dude, it's a steel pipe. That slut can rust all it wants - and I don't think it will crack. If it does, I'll weld it. BTW, a 2.5" pipe from Tuffy with a thrush muffler up front will do everything the expensive ones will and probably sound better. Hate to break it to you but you're just paying for a name.

Let's see. The DC sports header is CARB approved. The hotshot and DC sports headers are both ceramic coated. The OBX header is neither CARB approved nor ceramic coated. So how exactly am I "paying for a name"? Personally I like the **** I buy to last for a while.

Also, I have a 3" BRM with the 22" resonator as well. It's well under the legal limit for noise.

[A34D4ME]

What exactely does a ceramic coating do? What is the benefit of a CARB approval?

[mkory]

Insanity... Do you have any sound clips of your car?

[InsanityInc]

What exactely does a ceramic coating do? What is the benefit of a CARB approval?

Ceramic coating improves heat dissipation so it doesn't crack, and it also prevents rust in such a way that won't peel off after a week (like the OBX paint does). CARB approval is required if you want your car to be smog legal in California. Point is, it isn't just a brand name price difference, there are legitimate differences in the product.

Quote »Insanity... Do you have any sound clips of your car?[/quote]Nope.

[Chezedik]

The paint on the pacesetters doesn't chip, it burns off. Oh, and what turbo parts do you guys have for sale?

[A34D4ME]

Has anyone ever seen one of the PaceSetters crack?

Also, if I'm not building a show car why do I care if the paint comes off and it rusts a little? My current manifold is rusted - so what?

All I want is the flow. Plus, with the $300 I'll save I can get a lot of welding done.

Real simple.

PaceSetter header - $160 ebay2.5" thrush muffler- $60 Autozone2.5" custome exhaust $150 - local guy ----------------------- Total $370

Put the Thrush up front and I'll have a free flowing, stealth system with a tastfull rumble that won't get me pulled over.

Or, I can get a name brand exhaust for, what, $1000 that is too loud and has a big, loud as hell can in the back that screams "racer boy here, come arrest me."

[Bigvinnie]

IMO I felt the most power with my full exhaust set up.Dc sports header, Catco High flow cat, and the pacesetter cat back exhaust.For the price I paid(under $630) it literally showed the best results.Of coarse cams or an ecu tune would show great results as well, but for 15~20 WHP gain for JWT cams is a bit pricey @$700. ( I believe my engine is making between 19~21 CHP just with my full exhaust system.A Jim wolfe ecu tune is also good for ~15 WHP gain, but again too pricey at $600.

I don't have a sound clip of my exhaust and I haven't dynoed yet, but I have defenitely felt the most power from my full exhaust set up more than any other mod I have done so far.I highly recomend the DC sports header. DC will also replace the header under warrantee as long as you do not NOS feed, or header wrap the header. The ceramic coating is excellent and the engine bay doesn't get too hot either.

[AelSic]

My personal opinion would be for you to keep the turbo kit and hold off on it until you have the time and money to install it. With that said I think aside from the header and exhaust (which I believe should be hotshot or dc sports and catco hi-flow, you won't be disappointed) the intake will need to be your next step. Type in the search button ITB for the KA forums. It would be a benefit to you to properly research such an interesting and rather inexpensive(around 600 ducats) modification for your motor. If you choose the standalone system with it, it would open many more doors for you to achieve a nicely balanced NA KA such as custom ignition, cams, head work, more beneficial and efficient air/fuel ratios for your modifications. It would also start to run into the same price range as the turbo kit. You may be able to turn out a nice and sporty 160-180(if your even close to lucky) on the rear wheel horsepower with some decent gains in torque as well.

[A34D4ME]

There are a few good cams for much less and an I got a blue emanage with link cable and ignition/injector harness for $200 from ebay.

[InsanityInc]

Has anyone ever seen one of the PaceSetters crack?

Yes. They're piles of ****.

Quote »Also, if I'm not building a show car why do I care if the paint comes off and it rusts a little? My current manifold is rusted - so what?[/quote] The rust leads to cracking, that's the point. Also as I already stated the ceramic coating aids in heat dissipation.

Quote »All I want is the flow. Plus, with the $300 I'll save I can get a lot of welding done.[/quote]$300? Try closer to $100. "Name brand parts" aren't as expensive as you seem to think.

Quote »PaceSetter header - $160 ebay2.5" thrush muffler- $60 Autozone2.5" custome exhaust $150 - local guy ----------------------- Total $370

Put the Thrush up front and I'll have a free flowing, stealth system with a tastfull rumble that won't get me pulled over.[/quote]Yeah, right. "Tasteful rumble". Not all mufflers are created equal, in sound or in flow. Not to mention that a 2.5" system is not ideal for a KA, even NA.

Quote »Or, I can get a name brand exhaust for, what, $1000 that is too loud and has a big, loud as hell can in the back that screams "racer boy here, come arrest me."[/quote]Or, you know, a 3" BRM system with a magnaflow muffler and a 22" resonator which is so far under the dB limits as to never even have drawn a second look from a cop, which is also made out of aluminized steel, for ~$450, and that's only because I opted to have the dual-tip muffler instead of the single.

Once again, you're wildly overestimating the cost of name brand parts and assuming that everything is created equal.
Modified by InsanityInc at 3:44 AM 12/17/2005

[Chezedik]

Having apparently being the only person who has ever ran the pacesetter, let me put in my $.02:The fitment sucks. When I installed it, I already had the AIV removed, that helps. But fitting the EGR was only done by WELDING it together. Power was okay, a lot better in the 4K-red, but lacking in the low end (more than you would expect). This is because of the 4-1 design. It is all out race or nothing. In terms of noise, it actually got quieter with the header install. This was with a custom 2.5" exhaust with a Magnaflow straight glass-packed muffler. If I had it to do again (which I did!) I would buy the OBX DC clone (which I did). For a show car, it looks better, and gives the 4-2-1 design which is better for streetability. Although, if you are in CA then you need to just get DC. Then you can get your approval.

[Chezedik]

Oh yeah, tubing is larger by at least a 1/4" on the OBX.

[A34D4ME]

No kidding, OBX? Nobody has anything good to say about OBX. But I'd take the word of 1 actual owner over 1000 "I heard" guys any day.

Do they make one for the SOHC or just DOHC?

[TrueSlide]

I also have the pacesetter, have had it for 2 years. It sucks.

[A34D4ME]

How much was the total system? Installed? Where did you buy it?

Also, have you seen dyno results because I don't trust that resonator. It's bound to cause turbulence regardless of the manufacturers claims.

I am always willing to compair prices. As for performance differences, I don't really want to argue about it. If you want to believe manufacturers hype, as many do, that there is significant difference in muffler technology it's your perogative.

Having studied the physics involved and having totally silenced a rifle by taping a 2L pop bottle on the end I know for a fact that all mufflers of similar design do exactelly the same thing.

Fitment and genuine physics is an issue with me, but I know for a fact most of that other stuff is bunk.

[Chezedik]

I bought it on eBay. Fitment and quality were 80X better than Pacesetter. It is simply a nice header. I would not worry too much about what everyone says about OBX. Most of it comes from the fact that all they do is counterfiet parts. But in cases such as this one, I have no qualms with it.

[Bigvinnie]

SOHC Headers:Doug Thorley (frontier truck KA's)PSUEDOOBXPacesetterHot Shots

DOHC Headers:OBXDC SportsHot Shots (2 Versions to offer)PSUEDOPacesetterGreddy (will be reintroduced, and redesigned within the next few months)

[BadMojo]

Have both a Hotshot Header and BRM exhaust. Both are very well made. The Hotshot is very nice and I got a good deal on it through a NICO sponsor.

The BRM exhaust is nice. The welds are sturdy if not neat, and the price was right. Besides, with the BRM I know that Greg will stand behind his product 100%.

[mkory]

BadMojo, sound clips from you?

Anyways... the reason I want to sell is not because I dont have enough money to install the kit. I have the entire thing. If anyone's still watching this looking for parts I have EVERYTHING except whatever vacuum line you'll need, and an oil return bung. I'm at the point now where I really want to have my car paid off, and not risk the reliability of a KA-T by bolting on a turbo. Don't even start with the stoutness of the motor, either. I know there's very little chance of blowing it up with it being in good shape, and only running 7 pounds. But still, there's even more risk than if I were running an I/H/E setup.

[Bigvinnie]

ITB for the KA forums. It would be a benefit to you to properly research such an interesting and rather inexpensive(around 600 ducats) modification for your motor.

For $100 http://www.maxbore.com can bore, and port your stock TB to 65~70mm, includes the new larger butterfly as well. The KA defenitely needs to breath. It is more cost effective and reasonable to enlarge the TB diameter instead. Engine maintains a smooth power band, and it would run better in colder weather, and optimizing swirl. You wouldn't need to remove the OEM ECU either or need a more detailed tune. It is also 100% smogable.....ITB's defenitely have there place as a performance gainer, but it defenitely shows difficulties for street use, and there are still many problems that need to be worked out with ITB's (such as designing a well made plenum for colder weather and swirl use). Plus ITB KA's still aren't pushing over 210CHP on stock internals ( without raised compression).
Modified by Bigvinnie at 7:34 PM 12/17/2005