What is up with these paint shops!!!

[dangeris]

OK,..here's the situation. My wife and I went out parting yesterday for St. Paddy's day! So we start off at my buddy's house and got primed then we went down to the local bar where they just installed a mechanical bull. It's always fun to see the local drunks on one of them. Anyway, there's a dip going into the parking area and I told my wife to be careful and to approach it on an angle. Well, she did but not enough and with the drop on the car and the Stillen bumper a little lower than stock guess what happened? My freaking heart just about stopped when I heard the scrape and my wife saying Oh S**t! I have to say that my wife wasn't going that fast either as she saw the car in front of us hit that dip too. Yeah... well when we finally parked, I checked it out and I felt some gouge marks on the bottom left side of the bumper. And I thought to myself, "that's ok,..I can touch this up tomorrow. We went into the bar proceeded to have fun. We went home and went to bed and in the morning, I brewed a pot of coffee and went out to survey the damages. As I was sipping my coffee, I abruptly spit it out when to my horror I saw that the damage wasn't only at the bottom of the bumper but also at the top of the bumper where the Stillen piece meets the OEM fender. I just about cried I knelt down to look at the dages closely and that is when I noticed that the shop that sprayed my bumper NEVER used primer! The scuffed it up and shot the paint right over the urethane! At that pint my sadness turned into

Needless to say, I'll be going into work late tomorrow and stopping by at the shop to point this out to the owner. I can only assume that the rest of the bumper is not primed and there will need to be sanded down to the urethane. Now I have to deal without having a vehicle for another week.

The only good thing about this is since their going to repaint it, they might as well paint the side skirts too that I will be definitely ordering tomorrow! It just annoys me that the shop didn't paint the bumper the right way the first time. Now I'm going to wonder if their going to paint it right the second time around. Sheesh!







Modified by dangeris at 6:07 PM 3/16/2008
Modified by dangeris at 6:13 PM 3/16/2008

[generic808]

And I would bet my money that they didn't even add flex to it either. When you take it back, make sure the flex additive is added to the paint or it will start chipping and flaking in about a year or so. Good luck!

[dangeris]

Good point! Yeah well, My buddy pointed this out to me too Eric. He ran his fingers underneath the top part of the grille above the black grille (where it is red) and pulled his finger forward and some of the paint chipped off. I was like What the F**K! He also pointed out to me where the black was cracking at the edges. I'm really upset with the shotty workmanship. Question is, should I give the shop another chance to redeem themselves? This shop is suppose to be the "best" in town and so far, I'm not getting the warm fuzzy about it. Another question is how will I know if they prime it this time or add flex additives?

[generic808]

Give them a chance to redeem themselves. Most likely because of their repuation as being "the best" shop around, they wouldn't want bad WOM going around about them. Point out their errors and most likely they'll be embarrassed about their shadiness. If not, then I hope you paid by CC so you can stop payment and open a dispute. And you should report them to the BBB.

If flex was added and the paint is fully cured, it will not chip and flake like you mentioned. Your job obviously didn't have flex added.

[LongBeachCoupe]

generic.. idk if you were watching when he first had it painted.. that shop mis-matched the color... then fixed it... i mean, to some extent there is no excuse for them... Dangeris im sorry that your girl dinged your ride, mine has done the same to mine.... but its just a car and id rather ding that than my girl! As far as the shop is concerned.... flame them... did you pay on your credit card by any chance? Because if you did, its a freebie!

[leifab]

So from what i've been reading from all the posts, is that when i get my urethane parts painted, i should tell the shop to use primer and flex?

[Absolute Zero]

Sorry to hear this man.

I have the OEM bumper with the Pro-kit just installed and I didn't realize it dropped as much as it did and I scraped the bottom edge of my front bumper leaving a friend's house yesterday. It wasn't that bad, and in an inconspicuous place, but it still sucked knowing I did that.

[dangeris]

Unfortunately, I paid them by check. In fact, it just cleared last week. None the less they did get paid for a job that should have been done the right way the first time, and that bothers me the most. I don't blame my wife for dinging the bumper. It's gonna happen whether its by me or my wife. In fact, in retrospect, it's kind of like a blessing in disguise. If she never had dinged it, I wouldn't have noticed the missing primer. It was when I was looking at it I noticed the red and the urethane and no primer.

So guys, I'm no body/paint guy so I'm not quite sure what to expect here. I mean, will the paint need to be sanded off or will they use some kind of stripper? Are there paint strippers out there that will not react to the urethane? Oh crap,..I just realized I never posted the pics in my original post. Let me fix that.

[dangeris]

Sorry to hear this man.

I have the OEM bumper with the Pro-kit just installed and I didn't realize it dropped as much as it did and I scraped the bottom edge of my front bumper leaving a friend's house yesterday. It wasn't that bad, and in an inconspicuous place, but it still sucked knowing I did that.

I here you Absolute! I scraped when I was pulling my car up on ramps to change the oil and I didn't even had a drop yet. Now with the drop, I know that I'll never get my car up on those ramps.

[generic808]

They'll probably just sand the whole thing down and repaint. Hopefully, prepped, primed, and flexed. Good luck!

Sorry to hear this man.

I have the OEM bumper with the Pro-kit just installed and I didn't realize it dropped as much as it did and I scraped the bottom edge of my front bumper leaving a friend's house yesterday. It wasn't that bad, and in an inconspicuous place, but it still sucked knowing I did that.

Don't worry about it, this is commonplace with dropped cars. You'll get used to it after about 5 times because those 5 times will come very quickly. I learned to deal with it on my first dropped car back in the day, and every car after that I really didn't care. It's the bottom so you can't see it unless you're looking from that level or below.

[dangeris]

So from what i've been reading from all the posts, is that when i get my urethane parts painted, i should tell the shop to use primer and flex?

Don't these "professional" know to use some kind of etching primer and flex additives when painting urethane? One would think this right?

[generic808]

Oh, most definitely, they ALL know. The simple fact of the matter is that some try to take a few shortcuts to save a little money here and there. Unfortunately, we, the consumers, are the ones who get the shaft in the process.

[dangeris]

Oh, most definitely, they ALL know. The simple fact of the matter is that some try to take a few shortcuts to save a little money here and there. Unfortunately, we, the consumers, are the ones who get the shaft in the process.

How freakin' true is that statement Eric!

I willbe calling them out tomorrow and probably be hitting another shop beforehand to get their take on why it did that just to confirm my suspicions. What do you guys think about my doing that?

[Mr_Coupe]

dangeris that actually sucks my paint is stilll standing i guess the macco's vary from state to state but i have to get a new bumber anyway because i got into an accident so ill tell them to make sure to use primer and stuff

[johnny_d]

Hey Dangeris,

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation. I dropped off my bumper the other day and the service advisor said they always use primer. Because it's a collision repair and i'm bringing my own bumper they did say they cannot guarantee the paint and stuff but i'm hoping they'll do a good job. I did print out the Stillen direction and highlighted the type of primer to use, etc...... hopefully.

[desertdragon]

Dangeris, sorry about your car.

That is why I don't let my wife drive my car

[dangeris]

Thanks guys for all your condolences but keep in mind I'm not blaming my wife for this accident. Yes she scraped the bottom but the it was such at a low speed that the paint should not have done what it did if primer or flex agent was used. All night I was thinking about my car and if it will be fixed the right way. It just sucks feeling this way

[dangeris]

OK, so I stopped in the shop this morning but before I did, I stopped into another shop to get their take on the bumper. Basically, that shop told me that it doesn't look like it was primered and that the paint was shot directly to the bumper...Just what me and everyone else has thought.

Afterwards, I headed down to the shop that did the work and spoke to the owner. He went outside with me and saw the paint and was surprised that it was doing that. I told him tight off the bat that I was upset and showed him why. I also said that it lools like that no primer was used on the application. His response to me was that they never primer plastic parts. Their process is to scuff the plastic down and shoot a coat of A1 adhesion promoter / primer. Then a couple of coats of paint then clear. He also said that they have been doing this method for a long time and and it's the best way to paint plastic. Shooting primer would not make the paint adhere to it better. He also mentioned that all plastics are not equal. Some are better than others and some take to the paint better than others. He said that its been like 4 yrs since he saw anything like this.

So I asked him, so what is the process to remedy this. His response: Use air to take off the paint off of the bumper and start all over again. Sand, Adhesion promoter, paint and clear.

The car will be going into the shop next Monday to be re-done. Should I have them do primer over top of the adhesion promoter and before the paint?...so the process will be strip the bumper, re-sand, apply adhesion promoter, primer , paint then clear? To me, that seems to be the best way. I could be wrong though. I know when I paint my race bike plastics, that is the process that I follow and the paint holds up. I wouldn't think it would be different on a urethane bumper. What do you guys think?

[LongBeachCoupe]

IDK much about paint... but if hes re-doing it... then that means 1 of 2 things... good customer service.. or recognition that they did something wrong and are taking responsibility... what i would be concerned with is what he says when you ask him if this happens again with his method... or ask him to do it the stillen way... stating they manufactured the product, and with its composition it requires paint in X fashion... atleast he didnt say go screw yourself

[dangeris]

Good Point LBC. When I drop off the car next week, I'll ask him the "what if it happens again?" question. Like I said before, I will be ordering my side skirts today so while I'm on the phone with Stillen, I'll see if they can email me a copy of their direction. I never actually saw it as initially, I dropped off the bumper to them when it was still wrapped. Thanks for the advice man

[LongBeachCoupe]

Im sure you can get kyle and them to send it to you on stillen letterhead for official-ness of their process... also... its a crappy mess your dealing with.. but atleast after the curbage, its getting a fresh coat!

[adidas2go]

Yea this is what my painter does when he get my new piece of urethane he

1. Lets the urethane sweat in a heat room (So all the moisture and oil comes out of the urethane)2. scratches it down to make sure there are no imperfections and such3. applies primer 4. sands it all down to match evenly5. adds flex agent to the paint6. paints first coat (lets dry)7. paint second coat (lets dry)8. then sprays 2 shots of clear coat

Yea flex agent is one of the most prime ingredients. Thats freakin retarded to think that paint is going to stick yo adhesion promoter. Ill tell you what. Your supposed to put on adhesion promoter before you put on the 3M tape holds the top of the rockers to the body. That stuff is sticky, but it gets hard if you let it dry! Thats why it bonds to the tape! Now if you were a painter in their shop and you had to spray a bumper with adhesion promoter what would you have to do? Thats right, you would spray it on and have to go set up to shoot a coat of paint on it. Therefore the promoter would DRY before he even got there setup shoot paint on it. Absolutely ridiculous. This place is the worst. I would say have them sand it down and reimburse you fully. If you cant work that. Then have them do the above procedures. Make very certain they do the first 4 steps in 1 day, and the last 4 steps on the second day. The rule of thumb is, a day to prime, and a day to paint. I hope you make it through this buddy. I'm pissed for you dude. I'm pretty heated actually

[LegendRacer]

sounds like a load of ****, especially when he said he hasnt seen that happen for 4 years...

bodyshops/mechanic shops are never to be trusted 100%

let them redo it since u dont have to pay again, and this time they will probably do the right stuff, and add primer. There excuse was they normally dont use it on plastic is BS, most bumpers are plastic/abs/urethane and all the body shops recommend 3 layers (primer,paint,clear)

and since your goin to get ur sideskirts done, id reconsider goin to that shop again, unless they do a good job on ur bumper this time

[NissNEZ08]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!! I would have someone's head on a platter if I saw that my paint job was done like that! It infuriates me to hear this happened to you. It goes right along with my theory that there is no such thing as good customer service anymore and that professionals are less and less professional in their business practices. But I won't get on my soapbox.

The FIRST thing my painter said when I dropped off my bodykit parts was, "You understand we are going to sand this, primer it and add an additive called "flex" to the paint so this will take a little bit more time to do the work?" I told him, you do whatever it takes to make this thing perfect!

It took them a week to paint three parts. The work was immaculate and I still was able to bend and flex my parts without the paint cracking or anything.

Damn Dangeris, sorry to hear about this. Definitely, I would find another shop and then report this to the BBB and get my money back. Of course, I would take it to the old shop and let them see the shoddy *** work they did and let them know what a huge influence you could have on their business if this **** got out of what kind of work they do. WOW!

And as for your wife....I am sure she felt really bad. And kudos to you for being so good about it and not making her feel worse. You are a good person for that.

good luck buddy.

Tanya

[dangeris]

Thanks for empathizing guys! I really do appreciate the fact that you guys understand.

Yea this is what my painter does when he get my new piece of urethane he

1. Lets the urethane sweat in a heat room (So all the moisture and oil comes out of the urethane)2. scratches it down to make sure there are no imperfections and such3. applies primer 4. sands it all down to match evenly5. adds flex agent to the paint6. paints first coat (lets dry)7. paint second coat (lets dry)8. then sprays 2 shots of clear coat

Yea flex agent is one of the most prime ingredients. Thats freakin retarded to think that paint is going to stick yo adhesion promoter. Ill tell you what. Your supposed to put on adhesion promoter before you put on the 3M tape holds the top of the rockers to the body. That stuff is sticky, but it gets hard if you let it dry! Thats why it bonds to the tape! Now if you were a painter in their shop and you had to spray a bumper with adhesion promoter what would you have to do? Thats right, you would spray it on and have to go set up to shoot a coat of paint on it. Therefore the promoter would DRY before he even got there setup shoot paint on it. Absolutely ridiculous. This place is the worst. I would say have them sand it down and reimburse you fully. If you cant work that. Then have them do the above procedures. Make very certain they do the first 4 steps in 1 day, and the last 4 steps on the second day. The rule of thumb is, a day to prime, and a day to paint. I hope you make it through this buddy. I'm pissed for you dude. I'm pretty heated actually

I'm not sure if they would do that. But when I drop off the car next Monday, I'm going to insist that they do the manufacturers recommendation of painting their product just as LBC recommended. Good point though Blake on the adhesion promoter. There is a "window" of when to spray paint/primer on the promoter BEFORE it sets up. I know when I paint my bikes like I mentioned before I have two guns ready. One with the promoter and the other with the paint.

Damn Dangeris, sorry to hear about this. Definitely, I would find another shop and then report this to the BBB and get my money back. Of course, I would take it to the old shop and let them see the shoddy *** work they did and let them know what a huge influence you could have on their business if this **** got out of what kind of work they do. WOW!

And as for your wife....I am sure she felt really bad. And kudos to you for being so good about it and not making her feel worse. You are a good person for that.

good luck buddy.

Tanya

Agreed. Eric (aka generic808) had suggested to let them redeem themselves. Bad Word of Mouth is detrimental to ANY business. Yes they will be repainting it but it worries me that they will do what they want to do. After all, I will not be there when they paint it. I could drop off a camera with the car next week and ask him to shot pictures of it, in stages, so I can post them up on a forum. Kinda "leads" them into doing the right thing.

As for my wife?...Well She's my Best Friend and I can't be mad at my Best Friend. After all, it wasn't intentional. Aside from that, the Vicky's bras look damn good!

[johnny_d]

Dangeris,

In case you haven't gotten in touch w/ Stillen, I forwarded you the instruction for the fascia including some notes from Josh.

[LongBeachCoupe]

another great idea is to buy the domain name of their shop... Joesperformacepainting.com or whatever.. then use that as a place to tear them apart... my brother in law has done this many times... and low and behold, after you send them a link to the site... they change their minds about the way they treat you!

i remember on the contact page he made it said... "if you want to contact us, write a note on a piece of paper, crumple it up and toss it in the garbage, we dont satisfy customers!" or something like that

[dangeris]

Sweet Johnny! Did you forward it to my stny.rr.com account?

Either way, I'll be printing them out and handing them the instructions.

[dangeris]

another great idea is to buy the domain name of their shop... Joesperformacepainting.com or whatever.. then use that as a place to tear them apart... my brother in law has done this many times... and low and behold, after you send them a link to the site... they change their minds about the way they treat you!

i remember on the contact page he made it said... "if you want to contact us, write a note on a piece of paper, crumple it up and toss it in the garbage, we dont satisfy customers!" or something like that

That is too funny!

ahhh,..the pen yields more power than a sword - Shakesphere

[johnny_d]

whichever email you have on your profile good luck!