What is this shenanigans going on in my engine bay?

[Pathofinder]

DO you mean like bypassing the relay?? I didnt get what you meant by that

[Chuck Tribolet]

I meant if you give the relay good connections, you can always remove it later.

[Chuck Tribolet]

Over in Canuk's thread getting his headlights to work, we've figured out that the picture on top of the relay shows the
the pinout as you look at the BOTTOM of the relay, not as you look down on it from above. That puts us back to square one
on this thread.

[Pathofinder]

darn I dont know if thats good or bad Chuck but Id still love some help figuring out what this was patching!! Obviously theres something wrong eith my car, Id love if it was a wiring problem, and not an ecu or something. But I'll fix whatever it is if I can borrow your knowledge here and there lol

Thanks again so much for helping me thus far.

PS- the diver in your avatar is handsome

[Pathofinder]

hoping chuck has a slow day at work ... lol

[Chuck Tribolet]

Slow day? Haven't seen one of those in years. Wed. was 14 hours and I didn't get everything done that I should have. Such is
life in IT. Today was better, but I also had to go down to our weekend place (40 miles each way) to take a furniture delivery.

Anyway, going back over the thread, here's what I think we know:

Bosch 85 (coil) goes to Fuel Pump Relay 2 Pin 1, which is hot whenever the ignition switch is on. I'm not sure how, but we got
this right in spite of the picture on top of the relay being a mirror image.

Bosch 86 (coil) goes to ground. So Bosch closes whenever the ignition switch is on.

Bosch 87 (contacts) goes to ground.

Bosch 30/51 (contacts) goes to the EGI relay but we don't know what pin. So that's the $64,000 question. Which pin on the EGI
relay? I can't find anywhere that question has been answered.

And an unrelated to the current thread question: What purpose does Fuel Pump Relay 2 serve? Why not just wire fused battery
power to Fuel Pump Relay 1 Pin 3?

[Pwnin O'Brien]

I'll see if I can help...



When the ignition is turned on, the Bosch relay gets energized; this in turn grounds pin 30 of the Bosch relay (ECM Pin #26). This will energize the ECM relay. Pin #26 on the ECM is SSOFF for the IACV/AAC circuit. Pin #110 on the ECM is VB. Once I figure out what SSOFF and VB are I will let you know.

[Chuck Tribolet]

Pwinn: you have the fuel pump relay coil connections backwards in your diagram. It doesn't make a difference int he function,
but could be confusing.

And I can find anything in the the thread that says where Bosch pin 30/51 other than "EGI relay". No reference to which pin.

Pathofinder: does your ignition key look like this (but with the top piece that broke off and without the tie-wrap band-aid)?

[Towncivilian]

Off-topic, but thanks for that picture, Chuck! Both of my keys have the top piece either cracked or already broken - never thought of doing something like that to be able to put them on a key ring again. I've just been carrying both in my pocket.

Pathofinder: you may want to take the top cover off your steering column to see if there is any modified wiring in there. It seems your previous owner did quite a bit of unknown stuff, and perhaps they didn't stop with this relay thing. You will need a lengthy Phillips screwdriver to unscrew all (five?) screws underneath the steering column cover and it'll pop right off.

[Chuck Tribolet]

I've been told you can drill a hole through the middle. I'd be afraid of drilling through the chip.

There was some discussion in what-to-do-when-the-eye-breaks-off-your ... 61053.html

[Pwnin O'Brien]

My diagrams were straight from the FSM. The pin values/locations in the diagrams correlate to the pin-outs on the actual relays, I matched up the Bosch relay wires with the pictures. You can see in the closeup of the ECM Relay harness where the wire from the Bosch relay was looped around the harness to make contact with the relay, that's how I matched it to the diagram.

[Pathofinder]

The wire leading to the EGI

Bosch 30/51 (contacts) goes to the EGI relay but we don't know what pin. So that's the $64,000 question. Which pin on the EGI
relay? I can't find anywhere that question has been answered.

The wire coming from the bosch relay goes to Pin1 on the EGI relay. Bottom left terminal in the 2 pics





I dont really understand if Pwnin was telling me he found a problem, or understood the wiring and what was going on. Im not the greatest with diagrams.

[Chuck Tribolet]

Pathofinder: That's pin 2, not pin 1. The picture on top of the relay shows what it looks like if you flip the relay on its back and
look at the pins on the relay. And take a look at the pins on the relay, there will probably be numbers right next to the pin.

And can you answer my question about what your key looks like?

Pwinn: You usage of the pin numbers is bass ackwards to what's in the FSM. '01.5 FSM (also applies to '01), page EC-620 shows
ignition switch power to PF relay 2 pin 1, and ground to pin 2. Page EC-332 shows battery to ECM Relay pins 1 and 7, ECM pin 26 (SSOFF) to pin 2,
and pin 6 to ECM pins 110 and 112, which are labled "VB". I suspect this is power to the ECM, not a signal. Let's be consistent
with the FSM in pin numbering, OK?

Pin 6 also goes a bunch of other places. Page EC-494 shows ECM relay pin 5 goes to the
battery, pin 3 supplies the spark system.

I have a full text index of the FSM, and it doesn't mention SSOFF in text. It is in a picture or two, but that doesn't index.
I agree that the Bosch relay is a bypass of the security system.

[Pathofinder]

Really thats so confusing on the orientation of the numbers. I thought the pin numbers were straight down correlation with the picture. Its not? Easiest way yo explain that?? My other pin numbers may have been off then....

And yes my key looks like the one in the pic but is a good condition ley

[Chuck Tribolet]

I explain it by "that's the way Nissan wrote the manual and made the relays". I personally think it's not the best way, but the FSM
manual and numbers on the bottom of the relay are consistent. It drove me nuts chasing Canuk's headlight problem until I figured
it out, then his problem was obvious (bad relay, turned out to be two bad relays).

[Pathofinder]

Oh, ok well I guess Im glad I took the pictures

[Pathofinder]

so what should I do to sort this problem and delete this wiring Chuck?

The truck stalled on my twice yesterday driving in a new town with a very horrible road maintenance, Im assuming the car was being bounced around and this jerry rigged wiring wasnt holding up.

Id love to delete this wiring, or do it more professionally. Or atleast know what its bypassing

Should I go out and do all the pin numbers again since I know that the pin numbers are on the bottom of the relays now?

[Towncivilian]

or do it more professionally

To do the wiring more solidly, you'd have to get a spool of 14 gauge wire, some female and male quick disconnects, a soldering tool, some solder, electrical tape, and heatshrink tubing. You can obtain the wire, quick disconnects, and heatshrink for very cheap at Harbor Freight tools, and a relatively decent soldering tool, solder, and tape at Radio Shack. Strip some of the wire, place some heatshrink tubing on the wire, then crimp on the necessary quick disconnect, solder it on, wrap some electrical tape around the connection, then slide the heatshrink over the tape and shrink it. The cost for all this might be $35 - the most expensive part would be a soldering tool. Though the better option would be to remove this hackjob instead of throwing money at it just to keep the hack working, but we're not having much luck with that so far unfortunately.

[Pathofinder]

I have all of the tools and supplies.

Im trying to get help understanding what this patch actually DOES, and what this relay is powerring and when/why

Id like to delete this relay and its wiring, and maybe add a simpler way of doing it, I believe Chuck mentionned a simple fused 12V source may be all that is needed.

[Pathofinder]

Well Chuck since you gave me that new way to read the relays. I went ahead and pulled the relays and got better info.

So heres how its actually wired, which I think is different than what I thought before.

Pin 86/87 on the relay are grounded
Pin 30 goes to Pin 2 on the EGI relay
Pin 85 goes to the fuel pump 2 relay, but it is not labelled inside like the brown ones. The TOP of the relay, said it was Pin2 that was directly below, but it may be reverse imaged like the others and actually be Pin1?

I really hope this helps a bit. Id love to delete this relay, and figure the underlying problem that was bypassed.

Thanks so much!!

[Pathofinder]

bump it