What government programs do you find valuable?

[Encryptshun]

WDRacing gave me this idea, so props go to him if this thread is successful: Let's say that our next president dives into the budget with a chainsaw and just starts eliminating "unnecessary" programs.

As taxpayers, what programs (budgets) would you like to see RETAINED and why?

[Jimefam]

I would like to keep financial aid programs for higher education in place. I'm a pretty staunch capitalist so I dont like the idea of anyone but me using my money but to quote the godfather "I believe that helping your fellow man is profitable in every sense, both personally and bottomline" Now I really could give a damn about the personally part but do think that getting more of our citizens a higher education will benefit me and everyone else financially in the long run. Also as a rather large supporter of science I would like to see funding for NASA doubled at least. I think we have all profited from our previous space exploration but i'm ashamed that our leaders are letting other countries take the initiative when it comes to space and cutting edge science.

Edit: One caveat to the whole supporting our fellow man thing I will help those that help themselves, hence my support for education but I HATE the idea that some people dont work because they collect welfare and food stamps that I pay for. Now if you have a legitamite reason why you are unable to work(i.e. a disability or health rroblem) then fine. Who knows what lies ahead and I may someday find myself with some health issue or whatever so I gladly pay into those programs as I see it as a form of insurance. But if you are physically and mentally able to work and simply chose not to I personally couldn't care less if they starved. Illegals come into this country everyday without education and not speaking the language and stand on a corner all day looking for whatever work they can get for a measly $40 or $50 a day and get it because many out of work americans feel those tasks are beneath them. I say good for the illegals and shame on us as a country for supporting worthless individuals.

[AZhitman]

I've always envisioned the following (admitedly over-simplistic and amateur):

Take the next 4 years off. Let Congress assume the role of POTUS (a stand-down, if you will).

Both parties assign ONE spokesperson, skilled in the economy and budget issues, to this project.

The goal: Go through the budget, line-item by line-item. Set a time limit, and each spokesperson gets their alotted amount of time to convince a bipartisan panel of experts (sorry, lobbyists and special-interest funding sources not allowed) of their "plan".

Options: Cut it, keep it as-is, or modify it from its present state.

At the end of the allotted time period, the panel votes, and the winner's will is done.

I have no doubts that if myself and a team of my peers can cut a $16m budget by 40% in 2 weeks with little to no resultant life-changing impacts, then this same principle can be applied to our federal budget.

[szh]

I have no doubts that if myself and a team of my peers can cut a $16m budget by 40% in 2 weeks with little to no resultant life-changing impacts, then this same principle can be applied to our federal budget.

And to State budgets as well.

Z

[96Qowner]

I say we need a new branch of government called the Delegislature!

The best Delegislator would be the one that got rid of the most stupid, inefficient and redundant laws.

Gawd, there are thousand of "programs". I wouldn't even know where to start. What do I like ....

I like the student loan program, I like infrastructure programs, but we all know they're bloated and inefficient, disaster relief with the same caveat, what else ... hm ...

I like military defense, same caveat (heheh, just went back to read posts for ideas, and find that I'm parroting Jimefan - interesting).

We need to retain oversight and regulation programs, but *sigh* same caveat.

Government is the very worst, most inefficient way to do ANYthing, but sometimes, it's the only thing that works.

[srellim234]

One program I would like to see retain all funding is any healthcare for our military and our veterans. They've earned it by their service to our country and we owe it to them for keeping us free.

I'll probably find another few ( very few) programs in a bit but that was the first one to hit me......

[AZhitman]

One thing you have to remember is this:

There are NO "sacred cows".

While we might THINK we'd like to "retain all funding for veterans' programs" or child abuse prevention or animal adoption or whatever other feel-good title there is, we have to remember that those are JUST labels on a folder - The money in the folder is the same.

If funding the "Prosthetic Devices for Injured Iraqi War Veterans" budget is saddled with administrative costs of 30% and the RFP for the contracts within are not scrutinized to make sure every dime is used to the furtherance of the original intent, then you have yourself a budgetary drain.

Remember when someone brought up the issue of VA healthcare for a spouse of a GI who was serving as a surrogate mother? That program automatically warrants close scrutiny, because it has an inappropriate expenditure possibility built in.

[Encryptshun]

Agreed. To comply with forum rules (I guess I'm supposed to voice my opinion and not just offer up a discussion point ), I will list my "hot topics" below -- feel free to rant, rave, and rebutt

1) Social Security -- make it whole then axe it, returning all paid-in funds to those who paid in and let them manage their money from here on out -- no more Social Security "tax". (or optionally, make it a government-administered VOLUNTARY retirement fund, if you trust the government to manage your money)

2) Education -- Primary and secondary, with special emphasis on bringing our students up to GLOBAL standards

3) Defense - including strengthening our borders, cracking down on illegal goods importations (sorry, Skyline hopefuls), and homeland security as well as military presence abroad. Emphasis on the former, with "reserves" set aside for the latter

4) Endowments -- merit-based one-time grants doled out to entrepreneurs, scientists, educators, artists, and humanitarian workers

5) The space program

6) Domestic Energy

7) Infrastructure

That's pretty much it. Everything else, as I see it, could be left up to the states or done away with completely.

[AZhitman]

Once again, you'd have my vote.

As long as you don't tax my SSI reimbursement.

[Encryptshun]

Once again, you'd have my vote.

As long as you don't tax my SSI reimbursement.

Nope. You would have paid for it twice already (since we're using tax dollars to fund the bailout and therefore the reimbursement).

[Cold_Zero]

What program do I find valuable?Easy, the Federal Family Education Loan Program which came out of Title IV of Higher Education Act of 1965.

FFELP keeps me employed, happily.

[Encryptshun]

What program do I find valuable?Easy, the Federal Family Education Loan Program which came out of Title IV of Higher Education Act of 1965.

FFELP keeps me employed, happily.

The FFELP helped to put me through school. Thanks, Bud!

[WDRacing]

It would be easier to discuss if we had a list of programs to walk through. By that I mean, no one is going to say take money from health care, but I bet there is a metric ton of leakage inside of various health care programs. It's also just as hard to drum up a list of programs we want to keep when a large portion of them probably have clauses that elicit wasteful spending.

If we had a list of say the top 25 programs that are fiscal whores we could discuss why some could get cut/modified/left alone etc.

I'm all for Military spending and budget increases...but we waste money like it's our job to do so. R&D for the Military blows through tax dollars like you have NO IDEA. But other area's get budget cutbacks and actually cause loss of life in some cases...misappropriation.

NASA...yeah, great...thx for coming out. There budget gets cut by 50%...pretty rocks from Mars don't help me out in the least.

Senate retirement, do at least 20 years in office and then you get 50%...none of this 1 term retire and 100% crap. Can't make more then 1 term, you must suck at your job...not my problem.

Easier for me to say where we waste money then where we should keep I guess...especially since so many of the programs I'd like to keep need reform to make them run correctly.

[ishkabibble]

what programs (budgets) would you like to see RETAINED and why?

Hard to come up with an actual list without doing a lot of analysis. Some would be fine as-is, some may have merit in concept but are implemented poorly or mismanaged, some don't and can't ever work well.

Kind of along the lines of Greg's "sacred cows" post.

[smockers83]

Financial aid programs. We shouldn't fund higher education with tax breaks. Plus these loans have favorable rates compared to market rates, although rates really shouldn't matter in determining a loan.

NASA. We will always be curious about the heavens. A lot of technology comes from them as well that makes its way to the private sector. On the flip side, NASA only uses technology that has been around for 10 years. So they're using technology from 1998 if that policy is still the case. Why? Because it needs to be proven to survive unlike the various fads that die out with rapid innovation.

SS can stay on certain conditions. Its only used for those that really need it, the ones who don't know how to retire, so basically people below middle class or on the very low end of middle class. This will lower its use and cost. Yes, it will still be funded by taxes, but by significantly less. The middle class can find help, the rich don't need it, the poor already gets some from the government.

Defense can stay as well on conditions. Return to a containment policy in the war on terror as seen in the Cold War. Containment can be utilized with the least resources of any other option except for not using any resources at all and letting it run rampant. Also, the same about technology as with NASA in that it finds its way into the private sector.

[rn79870]

, although rates really shouldn't matter in determining a loan.

Have you ever dealt with a live customer? You wouldn't make such a comment if you had.

[AZhitman]

That last comment confused me....

[smockers83]

Have you ever dealt with a live customer? You wouldn't make such a comment if you had.

Yes, yes I have. Mortgages is part of what I do in the financial industry. People have become conditioned to believe in the rates by the banks. What exactly do the rates represent? The risk to the bank, that's it. Has nothing to do with affordability except the lowest minimum payments. If people have a financial game plan, which the majority don't, they shouldn't worry about the rate but if they can actually afford the loan and pay it off as quickly as possible. What banks do is advertise their rates to bring in business. They give them a 30 year mortgage. 2 years later they want them to refinance, but again into 30 years even though they're 2 into their current one. What happens is that these people have no game plan and believe they're getting a better deal just because of the rate, but in reality they're just extending their debt. The banks aren't in the business to get you out of debt, they're in the business of keeping you in debt so they can make more money. Us, not so much. If you have a mortgage and we can refinance it into a fixed rate (or if you want one; plus we don't refinance into a 30 year--if they're 5 years into their 30 year mortgage, we'll do a 25 year for them), do a debt roll down, or something to help save money, we'll do it. On top of that, we'll get them out of debt even faster by applying the money we saved them to the principal. Therefore the rate really doesn't matter too much. My company has never originated an ARM and we work to get our clients out of debt so they are debt free. Our clients are sitting on the sidelines of the mortgage meltdown watching everyone else.

We teach people this and they finally realize what's going on out there, especially the ones that have been refinanced over and over.

[ishkabibble]

I'm not buying that. Rates matter a lot when you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt paid off over 10+ years.

[AZhitman]

...but since most buyers buy on PAYMENT, not total cost, they see the per-month difference that a percentage-point increase makes and it seems small.

Maybe that's what he's getting at.

Now, *I* thought he was saying that "rates don't matter" because he was referencing student loan rates, which are typically very low, oftentimes almost on a par with inflation... Smarter to drag out the loan than pay it off, since the rate is so low.

[ishkabibble]

Yep. If we are talking about student loan rates, rates don't matter. There isn't much shopping around to be done, anyway.

[audtatious]

Start with the stuff in this guys book as he has done the work for us

[smockers83]

I'm not buying that. Rates matter a lot when you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt paid off over 10+ years.

I've refinanced people with a mortgage and other debt with the new loan set to 25 years. I've been able to get those same people debt free in 15 years, 10 years early if you will, and able to retire very comfortably as long as they stick to the game plan. I realize its hard to understand, but you've been conditioned to be that way and its a lot easier if you see it right in front of you.

If you're actually able to afford the loan, you shouldn't be making minimum payments. If you're making minimum or near minimum payments, you probably couldn't afford it. Think about it with credit cards. If you buy tons of stuff on one and you get to the point where you're making minimum payments, you actually couldn't afford that stuff. Don't get me wrong, rates do matter for some people. As rates go lower, more people are priced into the market. If you're making minimum payments, its going to cost you more anyway--that's how they make their money.

What I was trying to say is that the interest rate shouldn't be the ultimate deciding factor that it becomes for many people. As for rates on student loans, there really isn't much shopping around to be done and the same thing above applies to them as well.

[ishkabibble]

I realize its hard to understand, but you've been conditioned to be that way and its a lot easier if you see it right in front of you.

If you're actually able to afford the loan, you shouldn't be making minimum payments.

Not hard to understand at all. But, it's all dependent on the borrower's situation. It would no make sense for me to make any more than the minimum payment on my mortgage even though I can easily afford to. I get a better ROI elsewhere.

I do see what you are getting at, though.

[WDRacing]

Paying of your mortgage earlier means you pay less interest...just making one extra payment a years knocks your 30 year loan down by about 10 years...give or take.

Or am I not understanding what you guys are talking about?

Initial rates on the loan matter very much...don't know how anyone can think they don't. Refi's are almost always a rip off...but that has nothing to do with the initial loan rate.

[Cold_Zero]

I'm not buying that. Rates matter a lot when you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt paid off over 10+ years.

When referring to Federal Student Loans, rates are all the same regardless of lenders. Most people need to shop the BIP (Borrower Incentive Programs), the quality of service and repayment programs that they will be able to enroll in after grace. The reality is this, most students fill out their FAFSA (Free Application For Student Aid) and sign their MPN (Master Promissory Note) and like the tooth fairy their money magically appears at the Financial Aid Office. No consideration is typically taken into account about what repayment is really going to look like when they graduate, burn their grace and go into repayment. What is really sad is that students dont understand Capitalized Interest which accrues and then is capped on their unsubsidized loans and the ***** about their lenders/servicers taking on thousands of dollars that they never took out. It's called Capitalized Interest and you accrued it, welcome to a crash course in lending and borrowing.

[smockers83]

Paying of your mortgage earlier means you pay less interest...just making one extra payment a years knocks your 30 year loan down by about 10 years...give or take.

Or am I not understanding what you guys are talking about?

Initial rates on the loan matter very much...don't know how anyone can think they don't. Refi's are almost always a rip off...but that has nothing to do with the initial loan rate.

You pretty much got it.

Refi's are almost always rip offs, no doubt, because if your 1st mortgage is 30 years, the bank will refinance you into another 30 years, therefore keeping you in debt even longer.

And CZ is absolutely right on student loans--students don't know squat about it. I'm currently in my grace period and I can say that I really didn't know anything about it until my senior year. Hopefully I can get enough flow going that I can pay that sucker off in less than 10 years.

[audtatious]

Refi's are almost always rip offs, no doubt, because if your 1st mortgage is 30 years, the bank will refinance you into another 30 years, therefore keeping you in debt even longer.

I don't necessarily agree. It all depends on the circumstances. If you have been in your house for 5 years and have higher rates (say, 8%) and refi at 6.5% for 30 years then the overall payment still should be less at the end of 30 years. Of course, at that point you would probably want to refi at a lower number of years. You should not have to deal with PMI, etc either unless you were stupid and bought the home at the top of the bubble and it's worth less than the loan.

I refinanced in '02 (30-years) and have been paying around $300 extra each month. We are currently running through a refi today which will be at a lower percentage rate and will be for 10 years. Closing costs are minimal with the break-even on the costs being <1 year. Payments will only be $90/mo more than we are paying today with the extra $300. So, I've cut 15 years off my payoff and I'm paying pretty much the same I am now. That effectively saves me $100k+ over the term of the current loan (plus the extra 300/mo) at the current rate.