what does torque feel like?

[dubstyles240]

I know torque=work and horsepower=work over time

but when my friends are like, oh man this is a torquey car.. what do they mean?

basically what im asking is.. if a car has a lot of torque, will it just throw you back in your seat off the line? or if a car has 1000 horsepower but only 100 ft lb of torque, will it be quick for a second and then have nothin else?

someone clarify this for me please.

[nab911]

Lol, horespower will give you top end and speed. Torque will throw you back in your seat, spin tire, and on a non unibody lift the front tires up .

[UncleBen]

15.6 1/4 mile. dam freak KA's...

Torque is hard to explain. Its, I dont even know. Go drive a honda, get going in it, shift gears and floor it. You hear the motor get a little louder because its trying to go fast, but it isn't because there is no driving force behind it. The motor is twisting as much as it can, but it isn't twisting much becasue there is no torque. Damn I dont know how to explain it.

[UncleBen]

Google says:

"Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turn things. You generate a torque any time you apply a force using a wrench. Tightening the lug nuts on your wheels is a good example. When you use a wrench, you apply a force to the handle. This force creates a torque on the lug nut, which tends to turn the lug nut. "

[spitz7985]

When you're going up a really steep hill at 50mph, put it in 5th gear and floor it. If you gain speed, you got torque. If you lose speed, you're in a Honda

[UncleBen]

So basically if your car has torque, it will push you back in your seat and just have the "raw" power feeling. In the KA's instance, it will put you back in your seat, but then die off because of not much power.

[Checkered-Member]

Example:

D17 Civic: got no torque, when you punch it nothing happens.

KA Altima: monster torque, when you punch it, before your foot even hits the ground, this thing flies forward.

C5 corvette: got so much torque when you sit at the light idling, you can feel the car swaying left right… and when you punch it, it accelerates faster then your brain can process

[UncleBen]

Yes, another good example. When you get in a car, take for example my dads z28, and you rev it up some while in neutral. If the car flexes from one side to the other, it has torque

[C-Kwik]

Torque is what you feel. HP is the actual work being done. HP is more of a higher level look at the output on a motor. What is important to look at in terms of acceleration is the HP rating. Torque by itself gives you a very small picture of what is occurring.

The best way to picture it is not at the motor, but at the wheels. Lets assume we have two cars and the only difference is the peak torque level. Lets assume the HP rating is the same. If both cars were geared so that they hit 60 mph in second at their HP peak, the torque that you measure at the ground, or the acceleration rate at that moment will be exactly the same(ignoring drivetrain losses). Why? Because the wheel speed is the same and the HP is the same. Since the only other variable left in the HP --> Torque conversion formula is Torque, that will also have to be the same(at the wheels). So why is it Honda VTEC motors can make ridiculously high HP levels considering their low peak torque? Because of where it makes the power. At High RPM, you can use shorter gears which multiply torque proportionately to the numeric value of the gearing. By the time it gets to the wheels, the lower gearing with the higher RPM will have multiplied the torque at the crank so that at the wheels the torque put down will be the same as any other car that makes the same HP at the same speed.

So where do the differences come in? There are many factors, including differences in drivetrain loss, rolling resistance, aerodynamics of the car, traction off the line, etc, etc. But all else equal, the area of the curve of the power/torque curve is different from one motor to the next. Larger displacement motors tend to have a broader area under the curve than a smaller motor of the same HP rating(we will ignore turbo motors as there are a lot more variables to consider there). So while a larger displacement motor might actually put more power down over the longer range of time, both cars with the same HP rating will have comparable acceleration.

[C-Kwik]

Lol, horespower will give you top end and speed. Torque will throw you back in your seat, spin tire, and on a non unibody lift the front tires up .

Lifting the front tires has nothing to do with what kind of frame the car has. Assuming you have enough torque at the wheels and traction a unibody or body on frame car can pop wheelies. Hell, if you used a low enough rear end gear, many moderately powered cars can probably pop a wheelie for a moment.

[nametakennow]

C-Kwik got it. But a more basic explanation that the others have been hinting at is that torque is the fun stuff, the stuff that throws you back in your seat with enough Gs to simulate a rocket take-off... you hope... meanwhile, hp is what keeps you going.

My brother explains it really well, now that I remember correctly, torque gets you to 60, hp gets you past that mark and up high.

Hence why trucks have low top speeds (neglecting their lacking aerodynamics), they have mondo torque cause they're geared that way. My friends Silverado V8 makes 325lb/ft, but *only* 285hp, it'll spin tires so easily it's not even funny (drove it in a parking lot only once, spun the driver's rear backing out of the spot accidentally... that boy needs an LSD).

Conversely, my car makes 160ish hp and 150ish lb/ft, why? Cause it's geared for fuel economy, which torque is usually bad for, as pushing stuff with mondo gear ratios takes mondo fuel (damn I love the word mondo, can you tell?).

Me- 30mpg city no matter how hard I drive (pretty much)Z's big blue truck- HAHAHAHHA, maybe 20mpg?

Me- 0-60 in ~8secs hauling just my 170lb arseZ- 0-60 in ~no time hauling a friggin trailer, ****in torque!

In essence, torque is the cool stuff, hp is the "I can go 200, nuh nuh nuh!" bragging rights. Horsepower is nothing without the torque to use it.

Sport Compact Car ran an article explaining the difference, it was written by Dave Coleman, who actually is somewhere here on NICO, rarely (you've been found, sucka! bought 240kid's trailer hitch, you can't hide!). If I can find the issue I'll tell you which one, order it (they sell backissues), it's an incredible article.

[PalmerWMD]

In practical (and simplified) terms:

Torque means good acceleration w/o having to rev the engine too much.HP means good top end power and accel when using hi revs.

Fred..

[pito11213]

that is why i love my q

it gives you the power to throw you into your seat and the power to fly on some poor unsuspecting wipe in his beamer.

[Zydeco]

Lol, horespower will give you top end and speed. Torque will throw you back in your seat, spin tire, and on a non unibody lift the front tires up .

How come unibody car won't lift the front?

[Mr1der]

toque will pin you good...

unibodies have too much bodyflex?

beats me....I've seen Camaros lift them....

torque is the actual turning energy created by the back tires, I guess it can be measured at the crank too, but it can be changed through gearing and all that crazy stuff...

Torque is what you want when you're pulling something.

[Jesda]

I second that!

[StrangeLove]

Torque is the twisting force of your engine!

[Rockenreno]

In essence, torque is the cool stuff, hp is the "I can go 200, nuh nuh nuh!" bragging rights.

And this is why, by combining the two, our Italian automaker friends have created sex on wheels.

[PalmerWMD]

To the Unibodier..

Unibodies are actually stiffer than body-on-fram cars.

Fred..

[C-Kwik]

Actually, you can not have HP without torque. You can have torque without HP though. Try turning a wrench against a nut that won't budge. You exert torque on the nut, but it does not move. No work is done, thus, no HP. But with an internal combustion motor, it's not the case since the motor can not create any torque unless it is moving.

In either case the two are so closely related when it comes to internal combustion motors that they are virtually the same. HP and torque ratings are nothing more than the peak outputs of each. They typically do not peak at the same RPM, so each figure is independent of the other and absolutely unrelated to the other. That being said, HP does not keep a car going. Torque still does this. Again, Torque is needed to have HP. A KA24DE in a 240sx is rated at 155 HP at 5600 RPM. This is 145 lb-ft of torque at 5600 RPM. The KA has a peak torque rating of 165 lb-ft at 4400 RPM. So how is possible that the HP is higher at 5600 RPM if it is higher at 4400 RPM? The answer is that HP really is nothing more than a figure that represents the work a motor can do through a transmission. The RPM where peak HP occurs can yield stronger acceleration than the RPM where the peak torque occurs at a given speed.

Example: KA24DE: 155 HP @5600 RPM, 165 lb-ft of torque at 4400 RPM.

4400/5600 = 79%

165*79% = 130.

Explanation: the KA makes peak torque at 79% of the peak HP. If we ran the motor at peak HP in a 1:1 gear ratio and then ran it at peak torque through a trasmission so that the output speed was the same as the peak HP RPM, then the torque at the Peak HP would be 145 and the torque at the peak torque RPM would be 130 after the transmission.

And if you consider that every car I know of use reduction gears which means torque is multiplied in every gear to some extent. The Torque output margin between peak HP and Peak Torque RPMs would grow proportionately to that.

I hope this was somewhat clear...I'd be happy to explain any specific questions you have or respond to anyone who disagrees..

[nametakennow]

You can't have hp without torque because torque is part of the hp equation, as stated in that article of SCC I still haven't found.

[C-Kwik]

Torque is the twisting force of your engine!

Torque is the twisting force of anything that twists...It's not specific to cars.

[SmithSR]

HP is an imaginary number derived from an actual force reading of torque across an rpm curve.

[SmithSR]

*with relation to automobile engine output

[dubstyles240]

ok so what will a car with 1000 lb ft of tq and 200 HP do?and what will a car with 1000HP and 200 lb ft of tq do?

or are those combinations not theoretically possible since HP and torque are directly proportional to each other?

[nametakennow]

Possible, yes, but you'd have some screwy gearing and such.

Torquey one would snap your back and your chassis when you accellerated. Hp-ful one would keep pulling, if you were on a striaght enough road, your car could handle the pressure, tires, wind resistance... whatever, just put all that aside, basically this car would hit some mondo high speed and... yeah... then you'd pwn a tree and that ride would be over...

[C-Kwik]

They are proportional through RPM. F1 motors make over 800 HP at about 18,000 RPM. That puts torque somewhere in the neighborhood of 233 lb-ft of torque.

And having a high torque output with a relatively low HP output is certainly possible.

http://www.freightliner.com/news/detail.asp?id=309

[Cyberkreig]

I skipped some of this thread, but it seems this would come in handy.

HP = (TQ * RPM) / 5656HP = TQ @ 5656 RPMHP Does Not Exist if RPM = 0

[Cyberkreig]

Wait, that might be 5252, i cant remember.

[C-Kwik]

HP = (Tq * RPM)/5252