What can a Q do?

[elwesso]

This evening I was talking to another NICO member on the phone about Q45 modifications... I was talking about me taking my car on the track... he said, thats all fine and good, but the Q can never be a track car and its counter productive to even try to do so... I think in this scenario we had differences in opinion about what a track car truely is... In my opinion, a track car is simply a car that is setup with a suspension and wheel/tire combo that makes it reasonable to drive it on the track... This does not have to include a roll cage, rock hard suspension, R-compound tires, and all kinds of RACE CAR things.. My opinion is that a TRACK CAR and a RACE CAR are 2 very different things... A track car could be driven daily and more liveable, a race car would not be... A race car is a track car, but a track car isnot a race car

My vision with my Q45 over the next few years is to build a car that still looks like a Q, can go kick serious arse on the track, but you can flip the AC on and drive home comfortably, just like any other Q owner would..... Make a car I can drive every day, and have basically a closet racer that handles, stops, and accelerates like a race-car but does not lose the qualities that made me get the Q in the first place.... Sort of like a M5 vs 5 series.

With my mildly coherent rambling aside, I guess the point of this thread is trying to find out the members opinion on "what can a Q do"?...... Can you make it into a track car that can kick arse, or is it simply a highway cruiser with some get-up-and-go..... Dont be confused here, i dont care if its stupid or not, so dont go there.... Obviously there are better go-fast platforms out there than the Q... I dont think you can make the Q a race car, because if you gut the interior, the HVAC and add a roll cage, its not really a Q anymore.. Sure its still a Q, but it loses the essence of the Q...

I think the people that baby their Qs around are wasting them... I guess I can understand it more if its your ONLY car, but for a lot of poeple thats not the case... Go out there, get your Q sideways, take it to the track, beat the crap out of it... otherwise your just letting it go to waste... Who cares if the motor goes out, JDM motors arent that expensive.

[zinkie13]

Personally I think anyone can call their car whatever they want to. If one never did any modifications to their car but took it to the track all of the time, it would be their track car. On another note, I would imagine it would be difficult to have a really good track car that weighs over 3500 lbs, let alone over 4000 lbs.

[Rex]

I would say the "general concept" is a track car does not have the amenities you'd expect in a Q or most daily drivers. Thus, you'd pull the bulk of the interior and all "un-necessary to drive/operate" parts of the car.

That aside, I think if you trimmed down (without stripping down) the car added some mods/suspensions and drove it hard at "track" events, you could refer to it as a track car.

[elwesso]

I think my babbling is more confusing... Im not trying to define nomenclature.. Im basically trying to define how people view what a Q can do.. can you use it as a trackish car, or is just a stately cruiser?

[Jesda]

I typed out a lengthy response but the damn forum went down for a minute. Screw it. Here's a summary:

I'm falling out of love with the Q. I'll never sell it, but I want something bigger, bolder, and more comfortable.

[elwesso]

which is kind of a strange move... People either go to something faster (5 series BMW, E class MB), something smaller and faster, or something smaller.. I wouldnt think most people would go from a Q to something like a full size cadillac... I guess thats what makes jesda crazy...

To be honest Jesda, I think youll get sick of the Fleetwood.. Its way too big to drive every day... Its not really that big but it feels really big and feels like quite a chore to drive around the city...

[louiegz]

What can a Q do? I think it’s a long distance hi speed, highway car, and when in good appearance, body wise, a nice car to show up to a fancy restaurant or something to hand the keys to the valet. Nothing more, nothing less. If your Q is looking a little junky, like mine, it wont even impress anyone at the Mickey D's parking lot. The Q is not a versatile car. So what kind of track racing do you want to do, Wes? Solo 2 events? Those are small courses that don’t hit the Q's sweet spot of 80 to 120 that you guys like to brag about in your kill stories. You'll be doing the whole course in 1st gear. If you have more useable gear ratios in the transmission to keep the Q in the power band, you'd have a better chance. Maybe a NASCAR oval, but I don't think you'll be getting track time at the Brickyard any time soon. The good thing with the Solo 2 events is that the cars are classed by power and handling, but that’s if your car is stock. You'll fall in a modified class. Zinkie is right in the fact that the Q is too heavy. I was thinking once of doing Solo 2 events, but I was going to buy a used Miata with a 5 speed to do it with. That makes sense.

I think the people that baby their Qs around are wasting them... I guess I can understand it more if its your ONLY car, but for a lot of poeple thats not the case... Go out there, get your Q sideways, take it to the track, beat the crap out of it... otherwise your just letting it go to waste... Who cares if the motor goes out, JDM motors arent that expensive.

Just remember Wessy, your Q is your only car. Remember how you felt when Crimson Q died. It didn't look like you had the money to get that cheap JDM motor you're talking about. I remember you were saying that when you were on the skid pad that you were getting lifter ticking from oil starvation due to the Q not having a baffled oil pan. How are you going to feel when you blow the engine in the green Q, screaming the engine in first gear on the track?

[louiegz]

I'm falling out of love with the Q.

I know what you mean. The Q just does not meet my needs any more.

[Jesda]

which is kind of a strange move... People either go to something faster (5 series BMW, E class MB), something smaller and faster, or something smaller.. I wouldnt think most people would go from a Q to something like a full size cadillac... I guess thats what makes jesda crazy...

To be honest Jesda, I think youll get sick of the Fleetwood.. Its way too big to drive every day... Its not really that big but it feels really big and feels like quite a chore to drive around the city...

I'd never use a Fleetwood in the city. Parking would be a nightmare. Heck, to fit it in the garage I'll have to remove the storage shelves.

On road trips, the Q's luxuries are nice and the passing power is frighteningly good, but it just isnt comfortable enough. Even the Maxima is much less fatiguing after a thousand miles. The Q's ride quality is just okay. My 626 had a better driving position (low and laid back) and the E34 had a better ride, better handling, and a trip meter that reported your time of arrival to the exact minute.

Some folks like to modify their cars and drive in a circle. I dont really get much from that, or motorsports in general (except rallying, the rollovers and slides are awesome). I figure, since we live in a huge country with tons of well-maintained roads and breathtaking scenery, I'll use my car to actually travel. I spend 20-30k a year driving, most of it on the interstate.

Running costs are another issue. The expense per mile is lower with a FWB, for fuel as well as service and repairs. Hell, the $10k I spent repairing my last Q could have purchased two '95 Fleetwoods.

The Cadillac is next on my list.

[DrewQ45]

The Q is what you make it to be, plain and simple. I think a well conditioned active would do better on the track than standard suspension. Of course all the mods will help, but you can also do those to an active.

Personally, I wouldn't drive my Q on a track as a habit. For one, I don't think an automatic transmission would be anywhere near as much fun or effective as a stick. Secondly, it's not my only vehicle but it is my daily driver. Weight alone makes it not a track car IMHO, but again, it's what you make it.

Enjoy it as you wish.

BTW, which five series BMW is faster than the Q? Maybe an M, but not a regular 5 series. My ex co worker has a 2005 5-series and brags about how me took it up to 130 the other day. I laughed and told him that I take the Q to 130 when I'm late for breakfast at IHOP.

...Drew....

[Jesda]

The new 5-series has lost all its charm, inside and out. I would love to own a 1995 E34 540 with a manual. I think the Q is still quicker though.

[elwesso]

the 540 6 speed is faster than the Q, but then again its 97 vs 95. A 95 540 might be closer with the auto, but even the 95s had a 5 speed auto.....

Its not my intention to make it a habit to take the Q to track, but I still want to be able to do it... Comparing the old Q and the green machine is apples and oranges.. it really is.. barring anything catastrophic, this engine isnt going anywhere... Knowing what I know now, i could get this Q back on the road much easier than i could have before.

BTW that skidpad was terrible on the car, i dont want to do that much more... Im glad we only had to do 2 runs total!!!!! before the next one im going to rig up a loud buzzer to the oil light circuit and make sure that im not getting super low oil pressure and it was just the HLA's getting air in them.....

Really the Q did decent in the auto X, even the solo 2.. I just left it in 1st the entire time, i probably could have shifted into 2nd but I wouldnt have kept the RPMS where it needed to be.. I probably only touched the 7000 mark a couple times, mainly right at the end..... but for the most part it was at about 4000-6000 RPM which is right where you want to be... BTW it may not be my only car for long

[litlchi]

BTW, which five series BMW is faster than the Q?

The old 540i auto and definitely manual. The current 545i is also going to be faster than the Q. I think the Q could be trackable, if you were willing ot spend money on the damages that will likely occur from banging it around. I definitely think you can track a 3500+lb car, just look at the M5. If I owned one, I'm sure it could compete with most cars on the track. Now, to get a Q up to that level would probably take an unbelievable amount of suspension work, maybe even redesigning it. I wouldn't question the Q's engine, but I doubt the suspension would be optimal for tracking, but you could, if you just want to have fun. IMO, it doesn't matter if you win your division or come in last, as long as you have fun.

[louiegz]

BTW that skidpad was terrible on the car, i dont want to do that much more... Im glad we only had to do 2 runs total!!!!! before the next one im going to rig up a loud buzzer to the oil light circuit and make sure that im not getting super low oil pressure and it was just the HLA's getting air in them.....

Why don't you put an oil presure gauge. You can do that.

Really the Q did decent in the auto X, even the solo 2.. I just left it in 1st the entire time, i probably could have shifted into 2nd but I wouldnt have kept the RPMS where it needed to be.. I probably only touched the 7000 mark a couple times, mainly right at the end..... but for the most part it was at about 4000-6000 RPM which is right where you want to be... BTW it may not be my only car for long

I would think doing it only in first gear would give you to much engine braking. I did and auto X once in a Dodge Neon 5 speed and once you get to 2nd,you leave it there. I was real surprised how much fun it was to drive the Neon in the auto X.

So what other car are you planning to get, Wessy? Get something that's stick!

[pdqwrx]

What can a Q do? Almost anything, hell it may even be able to start world peace or end the war in Iraq.........OK Maybe not but is was fun to dream.....

I have owned a small rental fleet of cars over the years (Somewhere between 30 and 35) and I must say that my 1994 Q45 is pretty remarkable.It is know where near the quickest or fastest car I have owned (Stage 3 Stillen prepped 300zxTT/ Stage 3 Cobb Tuned WRX) or the best handling (See previous cars and S13/Built 510). It's also not the best winter car I have owned (1986 Toyota 4Runner, 2000 4Runner) and it's not the cheapest car to own (Honda Civic, Acura Integra, Toyota 4Runners's).But it is one hell of a car and I have spent far less money on it then I have on most of my other "Projects" and yet have gotten the most return on investment as far as practicality, usability and fun. I can drive the Q the 8 hours to Vegas and not get beat up, I can even pretend that I am driving through the touge on the way with 4 people in the car. It looks more exspensive then it was to buy and I think it gets more respect then any of my previous cars have regardless of top speed or corning grip or width of wheels. I may outgrow the Q someday as well, but for now it could be my only car (I said it could be my only car, I also own a 240sx for the track, a 2000 4Runner for the winter and a VW GTI 2.0 Turbo to commute in). I could see the Q replacing them all to at least some small degree and not many cars can do that.

CheersScott

[66mgb]

I would love to see what you could do w/ a G50. Just be careful when you look for places to trim weight, i.e.: bumpers and safety associated items. I would hate to read about your demise in the paper! That DOT stuff is there for a reason!

Now if you wanted to build a bad azz Q that was gutted and caged w/ open exhaust, supercharged 5.6L, 6 speed manual transmission, fiberglass or carbon fiber panels, forged aluminum race wheels & tires.... I guess you can imagine anything you want - it just depends upon how much you want to spend.

[zinkie13]

Make it a poll Cruiser vs. track car

[Jeff Williams]

OK,

1. People who are serious about tracking their car, buy the Corvette Z06 or a Porsche 911.

2. People who are serious about a great riding car, but the Q45, LS450, Cadillac, or Mercedees.

3. People who like to "cross the line" try to take a car designed for cruising, and track it. And vice-versa.

I think I fit in all 3 catagories.

I bought the frist Q to drive long hours each day inluxury.

I bought the Corvette to drive hard and fast.

I bought my second Q to modify with bigger wheels & tires, bigger brakes, lowerd and fully adjustable suspension, etc.

I drive the Q on out of town trips, as well as a little drag racing and autocrossing.

I drive the Corvette lard, but also on long cruises and trips across the country.

I guess the point of this rambling is, that I bought my cars for my specific reasons, and then modded them to personalize them and improve what the factory sold.

The key, is to not "ruin" the car. ie, make the luxury Q ride harsh or loud, and make the Corvette softer & add too many heavy mods.

I may have stepped over the line on my Q a bit. I can fix that by getting me a 2004 M45, and "leave the car the hell alone!"

...Well, maybe some bigger wheels, ....and droped springs, .....a nice gorund effects kit, ........STOP!!!!!!

[elwesso]

The key, is to not "ruin" the car. ie, make the luxury Q ride harsh or loud, and make the Corvette softer & add too many heavy mods.

I TOTALLY agree with that.....

Some people may not be able to put up with the body roll, but it really doesnt seem that bad.....

As far as suspension mods, i am not sure what you would have to do that would cost so much money. The multilink setup we have is great, and you can trick it out with good stuff for not a ton of money..... Certainly less than people think... And it becomes fully adjustable...

I guess the only thing you may want to do is find a better spring/shock combo that rides reasonably but doesnt allow so much body roll, but when you have more body roll you can run less negative camber..

Personally, I am not gonna trim weight... I am not gonna lose stuff from the interior, unless I were to build a custom seat frame that would be lighter.. I dont want to lose my heated seats and my power headrests ..

In the words of one of local guys.. he has an old datsun with an L28ET swap. Its fast as hell, but he also makes it so the AC still works and he still has stock seats.. He said "If its not fast enough with the AC on, then you need to put more parts on"... instead of trying to make the Q faster by removing stuff, i want to do it by upgrading the stuff...

I still think my alignment could be tweaked a little.....

[mcastro]

Back in 1991, I had the opportunity of driving on the Autobahn in a rented Audi 90, and I drove for miles with the accelerator pedal completely depressed, pushing that little Audi to it’s maximum (115 mph). One of the things that both frustrated me and impressed me the most was having to move out of the fast lane to let streams of those big Mercedes, Audi, and BMW sedans (and an occasional Porsche) just whiz right by me. I had that Audi engine screaming, hands glued to the steering wheel, flying by semis slowly moving at 80 mph, only to look in my rear view mirror at a BMW bearing down on my with it’s left turn signal on. They moved by me so quietly. I remember thinking to myself how can so many people afford those $50k+ cars, especially the un-badged tuner cars which seemed to be plentiful on the stretch of highway in southern Germany.

The Q was meant to sit in that pack of 125+ mph thoroughbred Autobahn cruisers.

Perhaps the question should be “What can you do with a Q?”. Competing on the track with a Q is very ambitious; building out your Q to be at the level of, say, an M5, both on the track and in the gallery; that would be an awesome accomplishment.

[Falkdesigns]

A "track car" is a car who's main function is just that. You can take any car to an Auto X (which is part of what makes Auto X so appealing), or a track day at a local race track, it doesn't make it a track car. A track car is a car that spends most of it's life in your garage, and on the weekend, you take it to the track. A race car is a car who's ONLY purpose is racing, and is NOT street legal. That said, you build up a car to do what YOU want it to do. The Q45 most certainly can be taken to the track and good times had, as you know from your own recent experience. My Civic Si was damn near a true track car, but I kept 100% of it's creature comforts, and I considered it more of a Canyon carver: phenomenal brakes and almost no body roll made it a blast to drive up and down the mountains around here. When I got my Q, I thought, it would be cool to have a Japanese sedan that was somewhat like an M5: big sedan, low stance, great brakes and cornering power, it just lacks about 200 hp, lololol.

[irax]

what can you do to make it more sporty?

upgreaded front and rear swaybars

rear strut tower bar

removed factory sound deadening and carpet, replace with after market sound deadening and carpet (lighter and looks better :-D)

a second pumpkin for track days, (ie one with 4.08 or like me 4.35)

bigger,wider LIGHTER rims, with good compound tires

upgreaded brakes with better compound

NICO ecu

MAXBORE throttle body

headers and cat delete pipes

SAFC and wide band O2 sensor...

and a 4 or 6 point bolt in roll cage, some thats easy to remove

ohh yeah remove the active suspension, its garbage for something that was ment to be sporty, put in a nice coil over setup with adjustable damper setup... and get a HICAS remover as well..

ohh and maybe some cool 5hp stickers too...

[irax]

or... you can just drop in a stock LS1 with 6speed and call it a day....

[BlueC]

I'd never use a Fleetwood in the city. Parking would be a nightmare. Heck, to fit it in the garage I'll have to remove the storage shelves.

On road trips, the Q's luxuries are nice and the passing power is frighteningly good, but it just isnt comfortable enough. Even the Maxima is much less fatiguing after a thousand miles. The Q's ride quality is just okay. My 626 had a better driving position (low and laid back) and the E34 had a better ride, better handling, and a trip meter that reported your time of arrival to the exact minute.

Some folks like to modify their cars and drive in a circle. I dont really get much from that, or motorsports in general (except rallying, the rollovers and slides are awesome). I figure, since we live in a huge country with tons of well-maintained roads and breathtaking scenery, I'll use my car to actually travel. I spend 20-30k a year driving, most of it on the interstate.

Running costs are another issue. The expense per mile is lower with a FWB, for fuel as well as service and repairs. Hell, the $10k I spent repairing my last Q could have purchased two '95 Fleetwoods.

The Cadillac is next on my list.

Well have you looked at the Y33s?

Going from a Maxima to a '00 Q45, its night and day. My Q45 is almost too comfortable. I've taken it on 2 long road trips so far and I was not dissapointed whatsoever. I've had my Q for 6 months now roughly, hasn't become boring at all, and usually I calm down after 6 months. I still am amazed on how much power this car can put down, not to mention it is very plush.

The only thing that I will modify is tint (going on July 6th), wheels (a big maybe), and possibly change out the grille. The rest will stay stock. This is my DD, so I like to keep everything how it is right now.

Just the other day, a 3.5SE Altima tried to pass me when I was turning onto a street, I could hear the VQ scream in that thing and I was just pulling away. Makes me feel good that for all it weighs, it can still perform.

[Jesda]

Well have you looked at the Y33s?

Looked at a couple, and they are quite nice and the seats are comfy but...

The G50 seems to have a little more space than the Y33 except in the back seat foot area. Even though the G50 has a long wheelbase, neither Q is really long or wide enough for what I'm looking for. The Caddy has a two foot nose to tail distance over the Q, and an extra seven inches in width. It still manages to do 26mpg on the interstate, requiring only regular unleaded.http://www.q45.org/gallery/v/Fleetwood/

Most importantly, like the 90-93 Q, the Fleetwood is unashamed of being what it is and boastfully exudes original character, even if it smells a bit like old people. No Lexus wannabes for me! I dont want to look like a dentist or accountant.

[Falkdesigns]

Actually Jesda, I was thinking about you the other day, I was checking out a Cadillac Eldo in the parking lot (the late 90's on up version) and the dash is almost exactly the same shape as the Y33, made me think "I wonder why Jesda doesn't get a Y33 as much as he likes the Caddy"...

[mitchald]

A Q can cruise over to Houston, around town, and back (480 miles round trip) in comfort (I weigh 240 and the driver's seat was made for me) and in the left-hand lane all the way (the only cars quicker were the cops and those who wished to test their laser-busters). The ride is awesome (No way is a Maxima more comfortable, at least, none of the ones I ever drove were).

My Q got 23 mpg for the trip with the A/C blasting. Not too bad for a '93 with 165k miles.

My Q may not the be the prettiest car on the road (it's been rode hard and put up wet by previous owners), but from behind the wheel, it is a great car.

But I would not put it on the track. Unless it was a demolition derby against Yugos.

thanks,Mitch

[BlueC]

Most importantly, like the 90-93 Q, the Fleetwood is unashamed of being what it is and boastfully exudes original character, even if it smells a bit like old people. No Lexus wannabes for me! I dont want to look like a dentist or accountant.

I guess I bought the right car considering I'm an Accountant....

One thing I must say, I got 23mpg going from Minneapolis,MN to Madison,WI at an average speed of 85-90mph. Thats not bad for a 4000lbs sedan. I got about 25mpg in my maxima at those speeds going the same route.

The Y33 just sucks in town, but on the highway you are typically going to see 20-24mpg+, ive never dipped below 20mpg on the hwy.

Honestly, I dont think id ever touch a caddy. They are nice, but I just can't see myself driving one (not a fan of GM).

[Jesda]

Honestly, I dont think id ever touch a caddy. They are nice, but I just can't see myself driving one (not a fan of GM).

The Fleetwood isnt a car I'd ever recommend to other people. Its one of those love-it-or-hate-it designs that transcends reason, something I cant defend on paper. Its heavy, overbuilt, old-fashioned, and the antithesis of modern engineering, but its efficient, tremendously reliable, unique, and beautiful. I see a lot of heritage in the fins, the skirts, the mass, and the vast expanses chrome.It took me a while to understand it myself, because I wasnt fond of it at first when Wes showed me pictures of the one his grandparents own. After seeing a few in person, it struck an emotional chord.

I still enjoy driving the Q on the highways around town. Its nice being able to punch it in a sticky spot in traffic and dart through the clogs, and its narrow enough to park anywhere with ease. Parallel parking is a pain though due to the overhangs, but I live in the 'burbs. Barring some massive mechanical failure, I will -never- sell this car.

[elwesso]

The Fleetwood isnt a car I'd ever recommend to other people. Its one of those love-it-or-hate-it designs that transcends reason, something I cant defend on paper. Its heavy, overbuilt, old-fashioned, and the antithesis of modern engineering, but its efficient, tremendously reliable, unique, and beautiful. I see a lot of heritage in the fins, the skirts, the mass, and the vast expanses chrome.It took me a while to understand it myself, because I wasnt fond of it at first when Wes showed me pictures of the one his grandparents own. After seeing a few in person, it struck an emotional chord.

I still enjoy driving the Q on the highways around town. Its nice being able to punch it in a sticky spot in traffic and dart through the clogs, and its narrow enough to park anywhere with ease. Parallel parking is a pain though due to the overhangs, but I live in the 'burbs. Barring some massive mechanical failure, I will -never- sell this car.

I definitely think that if someone were to get a fleetwood theyd have to get a stiffer set of shocks.. just SLIGHTLY stiffer, maybe just the ones from the impala...

Id love to have a fleetwood... Its all the car the impala is for 1/3 of the price...