I keep hearing all this stuff as to which is better and safer. I have peeps stating that the wet kit causes intake backfire and others that say the same about the dry kit. Im looking into installing the ZEX 75hp dry shot. It seem like a very straightforware and safe upgrade.
Ill also need to retard timing 4 degrees for this setup. How would I do that??
Could the NA Ka24de engine handle more than a 75hp shot?? I have intake, header, exhaust and 248/232 cam setup.
Let me know what I have to do guys....Ive never done this before, and since I live in NY and this is my daily driver, I cant go turbo, so dont recommend it.
Wet Kit or Dry Kit N20 Which is Better??
Depends on motor and mods.
The problem with dry kits are that the fuel comes directly from your injectors. Depending on your engine, and mods, you can easily over work your injectors requiring more fuel than they can produce creating a lean mixture and melting some pistons. Assuming you had done all the perevious calculations for fuel injector duty cycles and pump upgrade you will be fine.
Or there is the easy/cheap way out, it is called a wet kit. It does every thing for you. It provides fuel via an external fuel pump, and mixes it with your nitrous right inside your intake. Very simple and effective.
Get a wet kit.
The problem with dry kits are that the fuel comes directly from your injectors. Depending on your engine, and mods, you can easily over work your injectors requiring more fuel than they can produce creating a lean mixture and melting some pistons. Assuming you had done all the perevious calculations for fuel injector duty cycles and pump upgrade you will be fine.
Or there is the easy/cheap way out, it is called a wet kit. It does every thing for you. It provides fuel via an external fuel pump, and mixes it with your nitrous right inside your intake. Very simple and effective.
Get a wet kit.
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morpheus78
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:25 pm
14.5drift wrote:Depends on motor and mods.
The problem with dry kits are that the fuel comes directly from your injectors. Depending on your engine, and mods, you can easily over work your injectors requiring more fuel than they can produce creating a lean mixture and melting some pistons. Assuming you had done all the perevious calculations for fuel injector duty cycles and pump upgrade you will be fine.
Or there is the easy/cheap way out, it is called a wet kit. It does every thing for you. It provides fuel via an external fuel pump, and mixes it with your nitrous right inside your intake. Very simple and effective.
Get a wet kit.
Arent wet kits dangerous?? I keep hearing that the stock injectors on the 240sx can handle a 75hp shot.
There are risks either way you do it, neither more apparent than the other, accept one happens to be cheaper.morpheus78 wrote:Arent wet kits dangerous??
wet kit 500 smacks
dry kit + fuel pump 700 smacks
and if you have any intentions of turbo for the ka, you will thank yourself down the road for getting the wet kit. It can become too much of a burden on the inferior fuel components to support additional fuel for turbo and nitrous.
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morpheus78
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:25 pm
14.5drift wrote:There are risks either way you do it, neither more apparent than the other, accept one happens to be cheaper.
wet kit 500 smacks
dry kit + fuel pump 700 smacks
and if you have any intentions of turbo for the ka, you will thank yourself down the road for getting the wet kit. It can become too much of a burden on the inferior fuel components to support additional fuel for turbo and nitrous.
I understand. Its just known that 75hp shot is really not that large. Even ZEX states that the system is designed for stock applications. I could throw a walbro in there I guess, or use the inline ZEX fuel pump booster. I just dont want to go overboard. What I really need to know is how to retard the ignition timing 4 degrees. I rather not get an aftermarket ignition, is there a module that will work with the stock ignition and retard the timing??
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morpheus78
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:25 pm
14.5drift wrote:Trust me, if you plan going turbo in the future get a wet kit.
I had these questions a few months back until jim (nitrous guru) set me straight let me see if I can dig up some of our convo's...
yes please. Im not planning on going turbo though. Not until they make a NY state legal one, which they dont as of yet. Greddy is working on it though. What do you use to retard your timing??
Okay, I found them. This guy knows his stuff, I realize I was asking him some different questions, but in there some where he explains how dry kits are for n/a show cars, and that wet kits are preffered from a performance stand point, sorry they are so long he really gets into this stufff, lol. Enjoy
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 driftQuote:I don't know much, but nitrous is one thing I do know.Well, seems like you are the man to talk to then, I have been looking around at nitrous lately, and the more I look the better of an idea it seems to be. I have been doing lots of reading and all the kits claim to be the best and they all have their reasons. As of now my car is stock, but soon enough I will be turning up the boost with an FP some thing or other. Question is what will work good for me now (stock), but ultimatly work the best with my high boost setup. I am lookin for a kit that I can turn on from 2k all the way through the gears. I under stand the wet kits are liable to pool up in low rpm and could possibly blow the head right off the block, so my attention has been mostly on a dry kit. Would a 50 dry shot (or bigger as long as it's safe) be a good idea for my car now, and later once I get the bigger turbo on (hoping for the 3052)? If so what kit would you recomend, and why? thanks in advance,
Chris.
Never run a dry nitrous kit on a turbo car. Dry nitrous kits rely on raising the fuel pressure for the extra fuel with the nitrous. If your turbo already has the injectors maxing the plusewidth and now your nitrous system is demanding more fuel pressure (because they don't interact with the computer it just puts extra pressure on the FPR to keep it closed to raise fuel pressure) it puts a whole lot of strain on your fuel system.
You want an NX EFI stage 1 single nossle it. http://www.nitrousexpress.com/...1.htm Nitrous express has the jetting for this kit set to run on base fuel pressure however you can tell them that your car is turbo, your fuel pressure with boost is 65psi and they will give you the proper jetting to run nitrous with your turbo setup.
Just to give you an example, a dry NOS kit on my GTi 80hp shot made 55hp and 78ft/lbs. A 75hp NX single nossle wet kit made 78hp and 100ft.lbs of torque. A 75hp shot technically should have been less right? No because NX rates the HP as wheel HP not crank like all the other (####y) nitrous companies.
The other good thing about NX setup is their solenoids and hardware is the best in the business. I have played around with it all, NOS ZEX Nitrous Works, Venom and it's all garbage. I hate selling it or installing it on guys cars. The only stuff I sell or use on my own car or anybody elses is NX. Not because I'm paid to say that or anything but because I have been there done that with all those kits and NX really is the best. After a few trips to the dyno and seeing the power differences from one kit to another it's pretty easy to know who's got the best ****. The other thing is NX supports a lot of racers who run turbo/nitrous setups so they know how to help you and what jetting to run etc etc.. You call NOS and ask them about nitrous on a turbo car they will just give you a big song and dance how your motor can not run nitrous at all and it will blow up. Thats because you don't have a V8 and they don't know #### all about import cars.
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 driftQuote:I don't know much, but nitrous is one thing I do know.Well, seems like you are the man to talk to then, I have been looking around at nitrous lately, and the more I look the better of an idea it seems to be. I have been doing lots of reading and all the kits claim to be the best and they all have their reasons. As of now my car is stock, but soon enough I will be turning up the boost with an FP some thing or other. Question is what will work good for me now (stock), but ultimatly work the best with my high boost setup. I am lookin for a kit that I can turn on from 2k all the way through the gears. I under stand the wet kits are liable to pool up in low rpm and could possibly blow the head right off the block, so my attention has been mostly on a dry kit. Would a 50 dry shot (or bigger as long as it's safe) be a good idea for my car now, and later once I get the bigger turbo on (hoping for the 3052)? If so what kit would you recomend, and why? thanks in advance,
Chris.
Never run a dry nitrous kit on a turbo car. Dry nitrous kits rely on raising the fuel pressure for the extra fuel with the nitrous. If your turbo already has the injectors maxing the plusewidth and now your nitrous system is demanding more fuel pressure (because they don't interact with the computer it just puts extra pressure on the FPR to keep it closed to raise fuel pressure) it puts a whole lot of strain on your fuel system.
You want an NX EFI stage 1 single nossle it. http://www.nitrousexpress.com/...1.htm Nitrous express has the jetting for this kit set to run on base fuel pressure however you can tell them that your car is turbo, your fuel pressure with boost is 65psi and they will give you the proper jetting to run nitrous with your turbo setup.
Just to give you an example, a dry NOS kit on my GTi 80hp shot made 55hp and 78ft/lbs. A 75hp NX single nossle wet kit made 78hp and 100ft.lbs of torque. A 75hp shot technically should have been less right? No because NX rates the HP as wheel HP not crank like all the other (####y) nitrous companies.
The other good thing about NX setup is their solenoids and hardware is the best in the business. I have played around with it all, NOS ZEX Nitrous Works, Venom and it's all garbage. I hate selling it or installing it on guys cars. The only stuff I sell or use on my own car or anybody elses is NX. Not because I'm paid to say that or anything but because I have been there done that with all those kits and NX really is the best. After a few trips to the dyno and seeing the power differences from one kit to another it's pretty easy to know who's got the best ****. The other thing is NX supports a lot of racers who run turbo/nitrous setups so they know how to help you and what jetting to run etc etc.. You call NOS and ask them about nitrous on a turbo car they will just give you a big song and dance how your motor can not run nitrous at all and it will blow up. Thats because you don't have a V8 and they don't know #### all about import cars.
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 driftSo if I make sure to ad appropriate fual mixtures, would a dry kit be safe? I am looking into dsmlink already, paired with some bigger injectors and fpr, would it then be advisable? My only intent to run nitrous is to get me off the line, after that it is all boost, wet kits have a tendance to puddle or pool at low rpms and I have seen videos of what happens after. With a dry kit it doesn't matter what rpm it's used at. So I am looking for a nice direct port kit to run from roughly 2k (thats about where my T/C stalls at) til about 3.5rpm when my turbo reaches full spool. As for now, would you say I would be okay to run a small dry shot just to mess around with until later when the car is all setup? maybe a fuel pump rewire, or just a 255 walbro?
No. Don't use a dry kit on a turbo car, period. They are designed for NA cars because they have to raise fuel pressure. That is how they add fuel for the nitrous. Your turbo is already doing that so how is the nitrous kit going to do it on top?
If your going to spray spray the car though all the gears, it will never help you get off the line, thats not really what it's for. When you shut it off there will be such a huge loss of hp that you'll wanna run it all the time.
I'm not sure where your getting information about fuel puddleing. That is 20 year old NOS rhetoric that does not happen on modern wet kits. If you buy an old NOS kit from the 70's then you may have that happen and then it's only on huge shots above 100hp. I ran run single nossle wet kits on my dads V6 maxima at 175hp shot and there is no puddling problem. That problem simply does not exist anymore. Even now that NOS has copied NX's nossle design they don't even have the problem anymore. As well, dry kits can not be used at any RPM either, again not sure where your getting this information. You can spray pretty well any car at any RPM in 1st gear because there is such little resistance in 1st it doesn't matter. You couldn't spray 1500rpm in 5th it would blow up the motor because the engine does not have the ability to spin freely and rev quickly like 1st gear. You later mention a direct port kit. I'm not sure if you understand what direct port is. It's one wet nossle per cylinder so four of them in your case plumed in the intake manifold (not intake before the TB) and miminum shot generally is 100hp (because of 4 nossles instead of one, see http://www3.sympatico.ca/vr6jim/directport.jpg my old GTI VR6 on direct port)
You are never safe running a dry kit on a turbo car because of the fuel pressure issue. It's just not designed to work that way. This is like trying to use a turbo manifold on a non turbo car. Just doens't work that way. Also spraying to spool up the turbo is a misconception. Anybody who does that does spool the turbo fast (if not instantly) but they don't shut the system off. A 50hp shot adds 100hp. If you shut that off at 3500rpm your going to lose a whole lot of power. If your running nitrous you run it through the entire RPM band.
If your running 15psi and you spray a 50hp shot you will get 19psi of boost almost instantly and you will accelerate so fast you would never be able to shut it off before you were wayyyyy past 3500rpm trust me. Maybe in 3rd gear would you be able to acctually do this. You will most definately need a walbro pump because of boost raising fuel pressure plus your WET kit using up fuel as well (you simply can't use a dry kit) so you need a good pump.
OK, I'll talk about dry. Guys have used dry kits on turbo cars but it's stupid. You ahve to do so much to make sure it works properly with pulsewidth and fuel pressure etc etc and hope that everything works out perfectly and you get the proper pressure and air fuel ratio etc etc all for a measly gain that dry kits give. a 50hp dry kit is like 30hp at the wheel. Plus there is so much BS involved with 20psi of extra fuel pressure from the turbo plus 30psi of extra fuel from the ntirous kit now your at 100psi of fuel pressure. Care to guess what 100psi of fuel is like on injectors or other fuel parts? All for what? Just run a wet kit and it's simple, no smoke and mirrors no BS> Just install and spray, that's it.
No. Don't use a dry kit on a turbo car, period. They are designed for NA cars because they have to raise fuel pressure. That is how they add fuel for the nitrous. Your turbo is already doing that so how is the nitrous kit going to do it on top?
If your going to spray spray the car though all the gears, it will never help you get off the line, thats not really what it's for. When you shut it off there will be such a huge loss of hp that you'll wanna run it all the time.
I'm not sure where your getting information about fuel puddleing. That is 20 year old NOS rhetoric that does not happen on modern wet kits. If you buy an old NOS kit from the 70's then you may have that happen and then it's only on huge shots above 100hp. I ran run single nossle wet kits on my dads V6 maxima at 175hp shot and there is no puddling problem. That problem simply does not exist anymore. Even now that NOS has copied NX's nossle design they don't even have the problem anymore. As well, dry kits can not be used at any RPM either, again not sure where your getting this information. You can spray pretty well any car at any RPM in 1st gear because there is such little resistance in 1st it doesn't matter. You couldn't spray 1500rpm in 5th it would blow up the motor because the engine does not have the ability to spin freely and rev quickly like 1st gear. You later mention a direct port kit. I'm not sure if you understand what direct port is. It's one wet nossle per cylinder so four of them in your case plumed in the intake manifold (not intake before the TB) and miminum shot generally is 100hp (because of 4 nossles instead of one, see http://www3.sympatico.ca/vr6jim/directport.jpg my old GTI VR6 on direct port)
You are never safe running a dry kit on a turbo car because of the fuel pressure issue. It's just not designed to work that way. This is like trying to use a turbo manifold on a non turbo car. Just doens't work that way. Also spraying to spool up the turbo is a misconception. Anybody who does that does spool the turbo fast (if not instantly) but they don't shut the system off. A 50hp shot adds 100hp. If you shut that off at 3500rpm your going to lose a whole lot of power. If your running nitrous you run it through the entire RPM band.
If your running 15psi and you spray a 50hp shot you will get 19psi of boost almost instantly and you will accelerate so fast you would never be able to shut it off before you were wayyyyy past 3500rpm trust me. Maybe in 3rd gear would you be able to acctually do this. You will most definately need a walbro pump because of boost raising fuel pressure plus your WET kit using up fuel as well (you simply can't use a dry kit) so you need a good pump.
OK, I'll talk about dry. Guys have used dry kits on turbo cars but it's stupid. You ahve to do so much to make sure it works properly with pulsewidth and fuel pressure etc etc and hope that everything works out perfectly and you get the proper pressure and air fuel ratio etc etc all for a measly gain that dry kits give. a 50hp dry kit is like 30hp at the wheel. Plus there is so much BS involved with 20psi of extra fuel pressure from the turbo plus 30psi of extra fuel from the ntirous kit now your at 100psi of fuel pressure. Care to guess what 100psi of fuel is like on injectors or other fuel parts? All for what? Just run a wet kit and it's simple, no smoke and mirrors no BS> Just install and spray, that's it.
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 driftjim what do you think about this http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/P....html
Those systems are cool (NX makes one too) but not for a turbocharged car, I would still run a single nossle system on a turbocharged car. I think your missing what I am saying.
Jetting is calculated on 44psi of base fuel pressure and 1050psi of bottle presure. ON a turbo car your fuel pressure under boost will be 65-70psi as it rises with boost pressure. On a direct port system you need one set of jets per cylinder. The jets when drilled their absolute smallest can only hold back a 20hp shot of nitrous and fuel per cylinder which is why the 75hp shot is the minimum. If you pump up the fuel pressure from 44psi to 65psi still with the smallest jet in there your nitrous shot would be hughly rich so you would have to put in a larger nitrous jet to compensate. This is because more pressure causes more fuel to squirt though the same sized hole. So to keep air fuel ratio in line you would need to increase the nitrous jet size to match. 44-65psi is about a 50% jump so you would have to jump your nitrous jets up 50% as well. Then the smallest shot you could run with 65psi would be 135-150hp shot.
Just to give you an idea. If a single nossle kit needs .042 Nitrous and .025 fuel jet (that .018ths of an inch hole) for a 75hp shot. A direct port kit would need .018 Nitrous and .010 fuel. These are the smallest jets you can possibly get. If you jump up the fuel pressure you can not go smaller than .010 so now you have to deal with putting in a larger nitrous jet which is why the shot goes up. On a single wet kit where your running a .042 Nitrous and .025 fuel jet. If your fuel pressure goes up you can stick with that .42 Nitrous jet and goto a .018 fuel jet to compensate for the increase fuel pressure because there are smaller jets out there. The difference is you have one nossle trying to deliver a small shot instead of four.
See what I'm getting at? This is why I'm telling you to run a single nossle kit. Because your only using one nossle and one set of jets. Even with the high fuel pressure you can still run a smaller shot, this is just not possible on a direct port kit. That kit your looking at would stick you at minimum 135hp shot with 65psi of fuel pressure. You couldn't run it as though your running 44psi because with boost you will not be.
Those systems are cool (NX makes one too) but not for a turbocharged car, I would still run a single nossle system on a turbocharged car. I think your missing what I am saying.
Jetting is calculated on 44psi of base fuel pressure and 1050psi of bottle presure. ON a turbo car your fuel pressure under boost will be 65-70psi as it rises with boost pressure. On a direct port system you need one set of jets per cylinder. The jets when drilled their absolute smallest can only hold back a 20hp shot of nitrous and fuel per cylinder which is why the 75hp shot is the minimum. If you pump up the fuel pressure from 44psi to 65psi still with the smallest jet in there your nitrous shot would be hughly rich so you would have to put in a larger nitrous jet to compensate. This is because more pressure causes more fuel to squirt though the same sized hole. So to keep air fuel ratio in line you would need to increase the nitrous jet size to match. 44-65psi is about a 50% jump so you would have to jump your nitrous jets up 50% as well. Then the smallest shot you could run with 65psi would be 135-150hp shot.
Just to give you an idea. If a single nossle kit needs .042 Nitrous and .025 fuel jet (that .018ths of an inch hole) for a 75hp shot. A direct port kit would need .018 Nitrous and .010 fuel. These are the smallest jets you can possibly get. If you jump up the fuel pressure you can not go smaller than .010 so now you have to deal with putting in a larger nitrous jet which is why the shot goes up. On a single wet kit where your running a .042 Nitrous and .025 fuel jet. If your fuel pressure goes up you can stick with that .42 Nitrous jet and goto a .018 fuel jet to compensate for the increase fuel pressure because there are smaller jets out there. The difference is you have one nossle trying to deliver a small shot instead of four.
See what I'm getting at? This is why I'm telling you to run a single nossle kit. Because your only using one nossle and one set of jets. Even with the high fuel pressure you can still run a smaller shot, this is just not possible on a direct port kit. That kit your looking at would stick you at minimum 135hp shot with 65psi of fuel pressure. You couldn't run it as though your running 44psi because with boost you will not be.
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 drift[/QUOTEcheck out nx's, it's jetted for a much smaller shot too. I realize this states it's for honda, but the only thing that seperates it from any other 4 cyl (if i'm not mistaken) is the fuel rail. http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/20200.htmotherwise i should have no problem fitting it on the 4g63
Aaargh.. THE DIFFERENCE IS YOUR CAR IS TURBOCHARGED!!!!
On an NA car the fuel pressure goes from 38psi base to 44psi at wide open throttle. Thats it.
On a turbocharged car it goes from 38psi to 65-70psi at WOT under full boost (or even high if you run more boost)
Nitrous kits are designed to work at 44psi ONLY. Not 65-70psi like your running with a turbo on your car. For every pound of boost you run your fuel pressure goes up one pound. Since a honda is not turbocharged they don't do this. A different FPR will not change this. This is how turbocharged cars work.
The problem is that your fuel pressure at wot is 65psi lets say. So the jettting must be totally different for a car with such high fuel pressure. This is why you can not run a small shot on direct port because they physically cant drill the holes small enough in the jets to keep enough fuel from going through. SO to make the air/fuel right with the smallest jet they can at 65psi ends up being like 125-135+hp shot. This is why you go single nossle.
If you ran NA nitrous jets on a turbo car you will blow it up. Remember there is also 15-20psi of pressure in your intake that the nitrous system must fight against so you have to jet properly against that as well. The higher fuel pressure, pressurized intake and many other problems associated with a turbo car is why it's totally different running nitrous on a turbo car vs. an NA car. NX can give you this jetting but you have to ask for it.
They make that NXL kit for generic 4 cyl as well but your minimum shot with 65psi of fuel pressure would be like 125-150hp. You just can't get around that. You can not run a dry kit period. You can run direct port if you dont' mind running 125-135hp shot or higher. If this is not an option your best option in a wet kit. They are the best period. I had direct port and would run a single nossle wet before ever doing that again. I also had dry and it stunk (but it was on an NA car my VR6 since it can't be used on a turbo car)
If your having trouble with this you probablly shouldn't run nitrous on your car. I'm not trying to be mean but wait until you have done enough research and know absolutly what your doing before you order anything. If you wnat more info call NX and tell them what your doing and see what they say. Keep this email open so you can watch them say almost exactly the same thing im saying here lol..
Aaargh.. THE DIFFERENCE IS YOUR CAR IS TURBOCHARGED!!!!
On an NA car the fuel pressure goes from 38psi base to 44psi at wide open throttle. Thats it.
On a turbocharged car it goes from 38psi to 65-70psi at WOT under full boost (or even high if you run more boost)
Nitrous kits are designed to work at 44psi ONLY. Not 65-70psi like your running with a turbo on your car. For every pound of boost you run your fuel pressure goes up one pound. Since a honda is not turbocharged they don't do this. A different FPR will not change this. This is how turbocharged cars work.
The problem is that your fuel pressure at wot is 65psi lets say. So the jettting must be totally different for a car with such high fuel pressure. This is why you can not run a small shot on direct port because they physically cant drill the holes small enough in the jets to keep enough fuel from going through. SO to make the air/fuel right with the smallest jet they can at 65psi ends up being like 125-135+hp shot. This is why you go single nossle.
If you ran NA nitrous jets on a turbo car you will blow it up. Remember there is also 15-20psi of pressure in your intake that the nitrous system must fight against so you have to jet properly against that as well. The higher fuel pressure, pressurized intake and many other problems associated with a turbo car is why it's totally different running nitrous on a turbo car vs. an NA car. NX can give you this jetting but you have to ask for it.
They make that NXL kit for generic 4 cyl as well but your minimum shot with 65psi of fuel pressure would be like 125-150hp. You just can't get around that. You can not run a dry kit period. You can run direct port if you dont' mind running 125-135hp shot or higher. If this is not an option your best option in a wet kit. They are the best period. I had direct port and would run a single nossle wet before ever doing that again. I also had dry and it stunk (but it was on an NA car my VR6 since it can't be used on a turbo car)
If your having trouble with this you probablly shouldn't run nitrous on your car. I'm not trying to be mean but wait until you have done enough research and know absolutly what your doing before you order anything. If you wnat more info call NX and tell them what your doing and see what they say. Keep this email open so you can watch them say almost exactly the same thing im saying here lol..
Quote:Originally Posted by 14.5 driftGuy at nx said you are full of ****! he say with fpr you can put appropriate fuel to air/nitrous and run any sized jet they make, but he aslo said for my application to run it off the line that it was a bad idea. He say in any application direct port/wet/dry there is possibility of intake back fire at under 3k. I thought that with direct port the risk was minimul but he said no sir it is still there.
Any way, since all the kits have risk of backfires, I should save the dough and just get a nice fogger wet kit lol. Any suggestions?
Thats because he is talking about use a seperate fuel pressure regulator to regulate the pressure for the nitrous kit. This has nothing to do with the fuel pressure regulator on your car. What he is talking about about I have already been there done that. I converted my DP kit on my GTI to carb level and ran carb fuel jets (which is much less pressure) so I could run an 80hp shot direct port on a 6 cylinder. I'm not full of ****, you don't know what your talking about and are not understanding what I'm talking about. I'm a sponsored race car by NX (I never tell people on message boards) and know 90% of the tech guys there. All the information I'm giving you is directly from NX. THe problem is broken telephone.
You would never shoot a nitrous kit under 3k anyway why would you do that? The risk of backfire on a kit is there, however a cow could fall out of the air from a tornado and land on the hood of your car too. The reason it's possible at such low RPM is the lack of intake volicy at 3000rpm. Remember that RPM changes as you accelerate but the nitrous kit sprays the same rate all the time. THe slower RPM your at the more nitrous each stroke has to take in. They can only take so much which leaves a lot waiting and backfires can occour. You would never spray under 3k anyway. The chance of backfire is soooo small espically on a small shot that it will never happen.
Just buy a single nossle wet kit, call Randall at NX tell him your running turbo on a wet NX kit. Jim from ETD (good friend of Jeromies) told you to run that and ask for the jetting you need for a 50hp shot assuming 65psi of fuel pressure and 20psi of intake manifold pressure.
I have done that kit in this situation 50 times in the last 3 years.
Any way, since all the kits have risk of backfires, I should save the dough and just get a nice fogger wet kit lol. Any suggestions?
Thats because he is talking about use a seperate fuel pressure regulator to regulate the pressure for the nitrous kit. This has nothing to do with the fuel pressure regulator on your car. What he is talking about about I have already been there done that. I converted my DP kit on my GTI to carb level and ran carb fuel jets (which is much less pressure) so I could run an 80hp shot direct port on a 6 cylinder. I'm not full of ****, you don't know what your talking about and are not understanding what I'm talking about. I'm a sponsored race car by NX (I never tell people on message boards) and know 90% of the tech guys there. All the information I'm giving you is directly from NX. THe problem is broken telephone.
You would never shoot a nitrous kit under 3k anyway why would you do that? The risk of backfire on a kit is there, however a cow could fall out of the air from a tornado and land on the hood of your car too. The reason it's possible at such low RPM is the lack of intake volicy at 3000rpm. Remember that RPM changes as you accelerate but the nitrous kit sprays the same rate all the time. THe slower RPM your at the more nitrous each stroke has to take in. They can only take so much which leaves a lot waiting and backfires can occour. You would never spray under 3k anyway. The chance of backfire is soooo small espically on a small shot that it will never happen.
Just buy a single nossle wet kit, call Randall at NX tell him your running turbo on a wet NX kit. Jim from ETD (good friend of Jeromies) told you to run that and ask for the jetting you need for a 50hp shot assuming 65psi of fuel pressure and 20psi of intake manifold pressure.
I have done that kit in this situation 50 times in the last 3 years.
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morpheus78
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:25 pm
sure, he can be found a http://www.dsmtuners.com and his name is DSMJim
he is cool guy, and takes time to explain stuff, he is also admin on that site, type his name in the search bar to find him then send him a pm.....
Here is a link to some of his cars,http://www.cardomain.com/id/dsmjim
he is cool guy, and takes time to explain stuff, he is also admin on that site, type his name in the search bar to find him then send him a pm.....
Here is a link to some of his cars,http://www.cardomain.com/id/dsmjim
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float_6969
- Moderator
- Posts: 17366
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
- Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily) - Location: Topeka, Kansas
- Contact:
Ok, so I know I'm rehashing a somewhat old thread, but this was VERY informative and provided me with all the info that I was looking for. Thank you 14.5drift! I do have one question to ask. I'm contemplating using n20 on my CA18DET. (1.8L turbo) My question is this; You've made it quite clear that the only good way to spray on a turbo car is a single nozzle wet kit. My only concern is that I've heard wet kits are bad for EFI cars because the manifold isn't designed to flow fuel. Is this a concern? Also, what if you were to spray a wet kit infront of the MAFS so that the computer could add the appropriate amount of fuel for you? My car already has all of the nessicary fuel requirements, so that isn't a concern. Is it a bad idea to spray before the turbo? I know that you usually want the n20 as close to the plenum as possible, and spraying infront of the MAFS puts it almost as far away as it could be, so I could see how that would be a problem. Anyway, I would appreciat your input. Thank you!
Wow this is funny I came upon this thread, I know DSMJim well. I am also a wiseman on DSMTuners under the same handle.
ANyhow onto your question float:
You've made it quite clear that the only good way to spray on a turbo car is a single nozzle wet kit This is not necessarily the case. There can be many good options for a turbo car. I have always personally stuck with a single fogger or a plate/direct port type system (great with turbo cars as well).
I've heard wet kits are bad for EFI cars because the manifold isn't designed to flow fuel. Is this a concern? Absolutely not... Wet kits work VERY well with any car period. There really is no fuel "flowing" so to speak. Its a fine mist, that over time may tend to cause a little more "build up". However that can easily be remedied with some intake cleaner every oil change or so. not a big deal at all trust me. Usually people advise to NOT use nitrous at lower RPM: most say about about 3-4k rpm. That is a very good way to prevent having any type of carbon or any other build up in teh intake manifold; by only activating over about 3500rpm to avoid "puddles" and/or having fuel build up.
Also, what if you were to spray a wet kit infront of the MAFS so that the computer could add the appropriate amount of fuel for you? My car already has all of the nessicary fuel requirements, so that isn't a concern. Is it a bad idea to spray before the turbo That is actually a horrbile idea
THe whole point of matching a wet system up is to pair the nitrous and fuel together for the motor settup ontop of what you are already running. Not only woudl the MAF not be able to account for it, ruin the maf and turbo, but also probbably cause a fire. MAFS systems need to have the nitrous sprayed AFTER the MAFS period. As close to the intake plenum if you are running it before the throttle body (about 3-4" away from the throttle body is best) and as close to the head as possible (3-4" again) as possible if you are running a direct port settup.
Keep in mind that using a kit on your CA with stock (or T28 or so) turbo often will most likely shorten the life of the turbo noticeably. If you do run it, make sure everythign is sound as for boost control and watch out for boost spikes. Maybe even turn the boost down a tad when you spray. Nitrous kits can make outstading gains on boosted cars. Many drag cars taht use it dont even use intercoolers cause the nitrous makes such a difference in temp. Good luck!
AUstin
ANyhow onto your question float:
You've made it quite clear that the only good way to spray on a turbo car is a single nozzle wet kit This is not necessarily the case. There can be many good options for a turbo car. I have always personally stuck with a single fogger or a plate/direct port type system (great with turbo cars as well).
I've heard wet kits are bad for EFI cars because the manifold isn't designed to flow fuel. Is this a concern? Absolutely not... Wet kits work VERY well with any car period. There really is no fuel "flowing" so to speak. Its a fine mist, that over time may tend to cause a little more "build up". However that can easily be remedied with some intake cleaner every oil change or so. not a big deal at all trust me. Usually people advise to NOT use nitrous at lower RPM: most say about about 3-4k rpm. That is a very good way to prevent having any type of carbon or any other build up in teh intake manifold; by only activating over about 3500rpm to avoid "puddles" and/or having fuel build up.
Also, what if you were to spray a wet kit infront of the MAFS so that the computer could add the appropriate amount of fuel for you? My car already has all of the nessicary fuel requirements, so that isn't a concern. Is it a bad idea to spray before the turbo That is actually a horrbile idea
THe whole point of matching a wet system up is to pair the nitrous and fuel together for the motor settup ontop of what you are already running. Not only woudl the MAF not be able to account for it, ruin the maf and turbo, but also probbably cause a fire. MAFS systems need to have the nitrous sprayed AFTER the MAFS period. As close to the intake plenum if you are running it before the throttle body (about 3-4" away from the throttle body is best) and as close to the head as possible (3-4" again) as possible if you are running a direct port settup. Keep in mind that using a kit on your CA with stock (or T28 or so) turbo often will most likely shorten the life of the turbo noticeably. If you do run it, make sure everythign is sound as for boost control and watch out for boost spikes. Maybe even turn the boost down a tad when you spray. Nitrous kits can make outstading gains on boosted cars. Many drag cars taht use it dont even use intercoolers cause the nitrous makes such a difference in temp. Good luck!
AUstin
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float_6969
- Moderator
- Posts: 17366
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
- Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily) - Location: Topeka, Kansas
- Contact:
When I was talking about spraying infront of the MAFS, I meant spraying with a dry kit. Regardless, I'll prob just get a single wet fogger and not have to worry about it.
I will be running a modified BB T28 turbo. The exhaust side will be stock, but the compressor side is modified. Is the increased exhaust flow thats associated with the nitrous the cause of the shortened turbo life? As far as boost control is concerned, I'm covered there too, so I'm not too worried about that eithere.
I will be running a modified BB T28 turbo. The exhaust side will be stock, but the compressor side is modified. Is the increased exhaust flow thats associated with the nitrous the cause of the shortened turbo life? As far as boost control is concerned, I'm covered there too, so I'm not too worried about that eithere.