Westboro Church Protests

[bigbadberry3]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/...pt=T1

I am usually 99.9% in favor of freedom of speech. I think it set's a part from many other countries and as a tier 1 nation. But in some cases, freedom of speech has been limited; e.g. yelling fire in a movie theater. I'm really stuck between feeling sympathy for the family's at these funerals and those who are using their right to freedom of speech and protest. Any thoughts?

PS- Thank you Mr. O'Reilly for helping out the plaintiff http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/...s1390

[AZhitman]

I feel your pain, BBB.

I've always said that Freedom of Speech does NOT absolve someone from the natural social consequences of their actions.

You have all the right in the world to walk up to a man and say, "Your wife is a filthy whore."

He has every right in the world to break your jaw in return.

Except, the speech is protected, the natural social consequence is not. There's the problem.

See a pattern here?

Whenever the government gets involved in something... something that SHOULD be left alone to work itself out naturally, they F*** it up.

Decorum and the social straification of a dignified and evolved society dictates that there should be consequences for attacking the loved ones of a recently-deceased person. But, the Left will once again defend any and all atrocities in the name of free speech (but ONLY because they agree with the POV of the harasser).

Here's another litmus test for you:

See how many of those Lefties would be standing up for your freedom of speech if you followed a group of gays around, screaming anti-gay slurs... or if we showed up in a Black church with signs that contain the N-word and other racial slurs...

See the hypocrisy?

[srellim234]

Problem is, AZ, that the government didn't make the choice to get involved in this so you can't place the blame on it. Two opposing parties forced the government to get involved by filing a court case that forced the courts to deal with it. The gov't was forced to side with one party or the other after that and majorities opposing one another within successive courts led to this mess.

In that respect, the courts are a perfect reflection of the public at large.

On a personal note, I think the church members are sleazebags. There is a time and place for everything, and a funeral is neither the time nor the place for them to accomplish what they're trying to do. Those families grieving for their losses did not make the policy or create the war. Have some respect for your fellow man.

[AZhitman]

There is a time and place for everything, and a funeral is neither the time nor the place for them to accomplish what they're trying to do. Those families grieving for their losses did not make the policy or create the war. Have some respect for your fellow man.

Agreed.

But let a judge say that, and he'll be run off the bench.

I hadn't read the article, so I wasn't sure if this was the group that attacked the families of the soldiers at funerals or the group that protested gays at their funerals... So either way, I'd side with the grieving family.

I have no respect for protest groups who compromise decency and character in the pursuit of recognition and exposure.

[nissangirl74]

the money that the church receives from Snyder will be used to finance demonstrations.

.

Not that this really matters in the grand scheme of things, but if the court awards her $ to pay for legal fees, isn't she legally obligated to use the $ in that manner? Sounds like she is trying to further fund her agenda on the premise of legal fees.

Also, here is another article about the whole situation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100331/ts_csm/291560

I am so intolerant of people who push our freedoms to the limits of their boundaries. Is it really too much to ask of people to be decent human beings? These people and their group are a walking contradiction. They say they hate the government and yet they turned to the government for help when they were sued and (initially) lost. They hate the government and yet they rely on the government's generous interpretation of the First Amendment in order to assemble. They enjoy all the freedoms of this country and yet they feel entitled to blatantly disrespect those who are willing to die in order for them to do so? f*** them and the horse they rode in on. I hope someone finds pictures of their leader getting his d!ck sucked by another man. There is a special place in hell for everyone of these sons-of-b****es!!

[seang]

I was so pissed when I read this, but then I read about the other hate groups and knew the problem wasn't just these people.
Modified by seang at 2:52 AM 4/1/2010

[AZhitman]

I hope like hell they don't enjoy the tax-exempt status of REAL churches.

No true Bible-believing church preaches hate... or intolerance... Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with "Waco-ing" the whole "congregation". Good riddance to a pox on society.

Oops.

Did I say that?

Sue me. I'm exercising my 1st Amendment Rights.

[HashiriyaS14]

No true Bible-believing church preaches hate... or intolerance... Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with "Waco-ing" the whole "congregation". Good riddance to a pox on society.

^^Seconded.

These people are filth.

FWIW, Westboro protests gays endlessly, and they are still allowed to do it, so the 1st Amendment bit really is (at least in this case), equal opportunity.



EDIT: This was my favorite. Pisses me off that they use kids though

[AZhitman]

As far as I'm concerned, your freedom of speech extends as far as you can defend it without help.

Think about that for a minute.

Solves a lot of problems, doesn't it?

There's another name for that, by the way: It's called "Not letting your alligator mouth overload your tadpole a$$."

[n00b240]

You have all the right in the world to walk up to a man and say, "Your wife is a filthy whore."

He has every right in the world to break your jaw in return.

Speakin some troof!!

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with "Waco-ing" the whole "congregation".

Kool aid came out my nose from laughing so hard

I vote for a new word in the dictionary "Waco-ing"

[AZhitman]

I'm really stuck between feeling sympathy for the family's at these funerals and those who are using their right to freedom of speech and protest. Any thoughts?

Well, ask yourself this:

If your Mom worked for a company that, let's say, rented houses to gay couples... and she took ill and died...

Let's say you're at her funeral, that the WBC folks show up during the graveside service and disrupt it.

Any thoughts?

There's your answer. And I won't judge you by it, because MY issue is with the protesters who have bastardized and perverted their "religion".

As a Christian, I can tell you this: WBC are NOT Christians.

[telcoman]

........There's your answer. And I won't judge you by it, because MY issue is with the protesters who have bastardized and perverted their "religion".

As a Christian, I can tell you this: WBC are NOT Christians.

Greg. Not often I can agree with you.

These people are in the same class as these.

http://www.kansas.com/2010/01/....html

NOT Christians.

I hope Roeder gets bent over a sink every day in prison for the rest of his life

Telcoman

[crakin]

respect for the dead. It's simple and does not need to be convoluted by agitated beliefs. But if you take that right away you stab the constitution and therefore negate any complaint. None of this would be a problem if people would behave responsibly.

[AZhitman]

respect for the dead. It's simple and does not need to be convoluted by agitated beliefs. But if you take that right away you stab the constitution and therefore negate any complaint. None of this would be a problem if people would behave responsibly.

Very true.

Which leads back to my position of "common decency" and "natural consequences".

I'm hearing that there's some local biker gangs who are doing a great job of showing up and forming a barrier between the protesting pieces of s*** and the family members, without disturbing either group.

[Jesda]

Deem a burial a private event that includes rental of the public space, like renting a section of a park for a wedding or birthday. The family and funeral service providers retain short-term exclusive domain during the lease period. Extend that domain to include a space large enough to encompass the entire cemetery and any adjoining public space, thus giving the family and security the authority to remove these wankers from the premises.

The only dilemma is if someone is visiting another grave during a burial, is being peaceful, but could legally be asked to leave due to the lease terms.

Throwing out ideas. Its not enough to keep them from picketing in the street as the funeral procession drives by.

The constitution trumps all, and even retards retain the right of free speech. A bunch of twats showed up to make noise when Reagan died too. Its proof of how civilized we are that none of these guys are dead yet.

[barefoot mat]

No true Bible-believing church preaches hate... or intolerance... Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with "Waco-ing" the whole "congregation". Good riddance to a pox on society.

the truth well said.

[szh]

I'm hearing that there's some local biker gangs who are doing a great job of showing up and forming a barrier between the protesting pieces of s*** and the family members, without disturbing either group.

Oh, I don't know ... I think I'd like them to "disturb" the Westboro Church folks - a lot!

Z

[Cold_Zero]

These wackos came to one of our local Indianapolis high schools last year when the high school put on a play called the Laramie Project. Chris Rosebrough, a local pod-caster went down to 'interview' the protesters and the 'interview' was very revealing. The members of the church couldn't answer Chris's questions about basic Christian doctrine.
[Christian/Lutheran religious podcast -->] http://podcast.fightingforthefaith.com/ ... 092409.mp3 And they looked like fools.

The group strikes me as being a cult that follows the teachings of Phelps (leader) rather than that of the Bible. Sure they quote scripture, but even the Devil (in the Garden and during Jesus's temptation in the desert) quoted scriptures. They are savvy in that they do navigate the US legal system to generate money for their cause from seeking lawyer fees and damages. While as an American, I will defend their 1st Amendment rights, as a Christian I will absolutely denounce them as heretics and false preachers for preaching only the Law and not the Law and Gospel rightly. (Galatians 1:8).

Chris also interviewed the daughter of the head of Westboro Baptist church:
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2009 ... hurch.html

Hope you find the podcast helpful in delving into the mind of mad people.

[IBCoupe]

Here's another litmus test for you:

See how many of those Lefties would be standing up for your freedom of speech if you followed a group of gays around, screaming anti-gay slurs... or if we showed up in a Black church with signs that contain the N-word and other racial slurs...

See the hypocrisy?

The ACLU defends that speech a lot. In fact, the Westboro Church's marches typically involve some sort of anti-gay rhetoric. How's that jive with your worldview?

As to the natural consequences: speech and violence are not the same. Your right to swing your fist ends at my chin.

[Jesda]

I LOL'D

[thomasjamal]

As far as I'm concerned, your freedom of speech extends as far as you can defend it without help.

Think about that for a minute.

Solves a lot of problems, doesn't it?

There's another name for that, by the way: It's called "Not letting your alligator mouth overload your tadpole a$$."

The problem with that view is that it allows the powerful to silence the powerless no matter what kind of speech they are trying to exercise. This kind of thing was a big problem, for example, during the civil rights movement, when non-white people often couldn't exercise ANY public speech without help.

[AZhitman]

Agreed.

The problem with the converse of that is it provides an unnatural and artificial hedge of protection around some people who legitimately deserve a good asswhuppin'.

[IBCoupe]

Our system is one of wildly swinging extremes. But I like the way we have it constructed. If the two extremes can be viewed as a choice - injustice allowed by the state through allowing individuals to insult others, and injustice done by the state through restricting who can say what and when, we, as a society, can be seen to have chosen the former.

And it's a nice principle, when you stop and think about it - if someone is going to be wronged, we'd rather it be by an individual, rather than by the collective.

[1unar3clipse]

In case you guys haven't heard of them yet: http://www.patriotguardks.org/

Kinda how Greg mentioned:

As far as I'm concerned, your freedom of speech extends as far as you can defend it without help.

Check em out, there is a chapter in about every state and they frequently make road trips the same way WBC raises funds and flies out to torment and disrespect (oh.. errm I mean "Demonstrate" ) families at memorial/funeral services.

[IBCoupe]

Haven't heard of them, and can't get to the link from work. What's their shpiel?

[1unar3clipse]

Link works for me they have multiple chapters that you can literally just google "Patriot guard" and bring tons of info up.
Needless to say I'll post the mission statement below




Patriot Guard Mission Statement:

"The Patriot Guard mission is to stand guard at funerals of America's Fallen Heroes who are killed in action or are casualties of the current wars on terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq, or any war zone. We also offer this support to law enforcement and firefighters who are killed in the line of duty. We shield them from protesters, showing our deepest respect and honoring the Fallen Heroes, their families, and their communities. We are invited guests of the family.
You do not need to ride a motorcycle or be a Military Veteran to support the Patriot Guard Mission.

ALL PATRIOTS ARE WELCOME.

The Patriot Guard mission is supported by many motorcycle organizations and non-rider individuals who share one common goal. We all have tremendous respect for those who risk their lives everyday, whether on American soil or abroad, in securing our nation's freedoms and liberties. We encourage those who share this respect to join us.


The Patriot Guard will provide this support and respect in a professional manner, upholding the Laws of Kansas and other states, and participate in a non-violent manner. The Patriot Guard is not a protest group, and is not affiliated with any protest group."

[IBCoupe]

Didn't work because of company filters.

Cool beans; fighting speech with speech.

[stebo0728]

Spoonful of Karma anyone?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article. ... TLIN105145

[bigbadberry3]

^_^