Welding LOG mani now, any pointers?

[node]

Couple of questions

1. Im welding my log manifold tomorrow and I was wondering if you fellas running Log style manifolds could maybe give me a few pointers or pitfalls to watchout for.

2. Where can I get VERY high temp silver paint so that I can prevent a little of the rusting of the manifold

3. Unfortunatly it looks like I need to mount the turbo under the manifold due to the shape of the downpipe I have. I want it to bolt up in amost the exact same location as the stock mani. This will help in the fabrication of a new exaust or only slight modifications to an aftermarket one. For those of you with the turbo mounted under the manifold where is the best place to mount the oil return to the pan?

Thanks Jim

[j-z]

1. have you ever welded before?2. go to home depot and pick up some barbeque grill paint. 3.why not buy a turbine outlet flange for the turbo you got and do it once and clean? and drain to the highest spot possible on the pan.

[SloS13]

I agree, dont put your turbo on the botton just because of the downpipe you've got. Downpipe is much easier to re-do and a top-mount turbo is easier to work on IMO

[Structure240sx]

check out markEmark's thread on his new downpipe. and check out pic of his car while you're at it. the outlet flange was like $6 from napa and a mandrel bend later he has a great looking downpipe for his top mount t3

[node]

Thanks Structure240sx

that gives me an idea or two.

Will barbeque grill paint last long? Has anyone else used it?

[daniel240]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SloS13 "]I agree, dont put your turbo on the botton just because of the downpipe you've got. Downpipe is much easier to re-do and a top-mount turbo is easier to work on IMO [/QUOTi agree

[WDRacing]

I dunno if BBQ paint will hold 1200+ temps. You can get a can of HT Paint from most paint stores, its actually meant for headers and whatnot.

What kind of welding are you doing, Tig, Mig, ARC, Brasing...just to name a few. If your mig welding, I suggest grabbing a couple pieces of mild steel and starting out with a few simple butt joints. Mig is stupid easy. For class they give you 5 mins of instruction then turn you loose on some metal. My advice is practice...actually, once you think you've made a good butt weld or similer, take it down to a local welding supply shop and have a certified welder have a look. When your Mig welding, you should hear the sound of frying bacon...then you have the welder setup about right...lol. Sounds weird but I'm serious.

WD

[95_240sx]

Another thing you want to do is focus more heat on the thicker or harder of the two materials. Be sure that when you tack it together youll be able to get a grinder or stem grinder in there to cut it off incase you mess up. Also, once your ready to put a pass on something make sure you can get the end of your wire or gun where you need to weld at. Remeber to always drag and keep your puddle about the size of the opening of the gun and make sure the bubble on top of it is always there and on the opposite side of where the wire is entering the puddle. Remember, always drag your wire and go down hill.

Hope i didnt confuse you (too much) but I do this everyday

Rick

[node]

Awsome Thanks,

Ill post pics afterwords.

I found some high temp ceramic paint that I will be using to coat it when im done. Its designed specifically for headers.

[osofasts13]

yeah i was wondering the same too. i plan to buy a jgs weld-your-own kit, (you know the cheap one, where you got to weld all the joints and pipings). i have welded in the past, but just regular mig welding, is that good and strong enough. how many amps of a welder should u use?? i have done lot's of welding, like to exhaustes and roll bars, but never something extremely under pressure like a mani. what do you guys recommend and any help from experienced manifold welders. sorry to jack your thread, but i thought why start a new one when we are talking about the same issue.

[:: orion ::]

That header paint burns off headers after a few hard pulls...no way will it hold up against turbo heat.

You need a real ceramic coating, or something SPECIFICALLY designed for coating turbo manis and turbine housings...they make it, and it's maybe $60/pint. Needs lots of prep work as well, sandblastng and such.

Trust me, it's not even worth hitting it with that paint, all it'll do it burn off and smoke alot under your first hard pull.

Later - Brian

[Nathan]

Since we are talking about welding...I've been looking at getting an Arc welder like this http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000011.htm it can be adjusted infinitely between 30 and 225 amps, would that allow me to do both thinner stuff like manifolds, intercooler piping, and exhaust modications as well as thick stuff like 5/16 steel plating? Sorry for the little thread hijack, I just figured since we were on the subject...

[WDRacing]

Mig is so much better bro...no stupid scratching marks. Just point and shoot.

[Nathan]

But Mig welders that can weld THICK stuff are so expensive besides...I dont care about looks, just as long as it's strong and functional...

[WDRacing]

whats your price range?

[Nathan]

Well, I REALLY liked the idea of a 400 dollar welder that could do anything I could think of...but maybe as much as 800 for something really good, since during the summer I have one of those crazy steady job things. Oh, to contribute to the thread a bit: Dude, re-do the downpipe, whatever because working on a top mount turbo is a LOT easier than a bottom mount. It's worth whatever initial hassle you have for the time saving to be had down the road.

[bigE]

We just got real lucky and upgraded to a Snap-On 225 amp mig welder, for only 400, it's about 2 years old, but Snap-On still warranties it. Also JGS reccomends at least a 200 amp welder for their mani's.

Eric

[WDRacing]

Here's another little contribution... http://autobody101.com/article...lding

[WDRacing]

Here's one Nathan, http://www.daytonamig.com/combi_mig_135.htm

[j-z]

start your own thread!!!! j/k and the barbeque paint works i used it. it was still on there when i sold the lude which had 7k boosted miles on it when i sold it. the paint is good for 1200 degrees farenheit temps and its says it also protects against rust so it would be good to get if you got the mild steel kit. its only like $3 a can. and it doesnt matter if you push or pull while welding. you can do either or and i suggest if youre on a budget to get a mig. theyre real easy to use and fun!

[Nathan]

start your own thread!!!! j/k

at least I'm not insulting his log manifold, not to mention I actually made an attempt to contribute something useful to it.

[95_240sx]

Actually, TIG welding will form the strongest bond just because of the basic way it works. A mig welder is good because its easy to do, and a stick is better because you can change materials without changing your shielding gas. So, if you can or have access to a TIG welder use that, if not go with a MIG.

Rick

[Chingon]

I think stick is the strongest, than tig or oxyacetalyne, and last but not least was mig. For headers and thins stuff though...mig is more than enough.

[95_240sx]

Im sorry chingon but the basics of how TIG welding works make it the strongestbonded weld there is, next to mig then stick. Stick welding gets contaminents in it and its very easy to get porosity without a shielding gas.

Rick

[Chingon]

I guess I'm free to differ...

[Chingon]

may as well say why.

In tig and mig welding, you are feeding a wire which melts through the use of (insert choic of gas) and electicity. These gases often act as oxidizers which weaken the crystal structure of the weld. Although tig welding is one of the cleanest, strongest, and my favorite form of welding...it is slightly weaker than stick welding and here is why:

In stick welding, the flux covering the rods vaporizes into an inert gas or gases, which contrary to what you say, shield the weld from any atmospheric contaminants. This cloud is the key to the strong bonds, as well as the fast cooling of the bonding process. Surfaces in upwards of 6000 deg. celsius become handleable within minutes. This high degree of heat actually forms a stronger weld than the initial materials on which you started with (which are often poured and hold bubble of gas/other metals in them) The fast heat to cooling action helps dissipate any initial contaminats which may have been present within the metal.

Thus by the basics of how stick welding and tig welding work, stick welding is stronger.

[WDRacing]

Hey Rick, Have you looked at the new Aluminum Brazing rod, its XZ 2000 or somthing like that. It looks incredibly strong for being aluminum. I'll find the link I had and post it up. It looks like a great way to do IC's and such.

WD

[WDRacing]

Here's the link, its HTS 2000.

http://newtechnologyproducts.n...ndard

[turbo300]

All things being equal, a skilled TIG operator will produce better quality welds on most materials than an ARC operator can.The fact that the gas flow and voltage are fully controllable "on the fly"by the operator place TIG in a class above the other methods. There will be less crystalization of the base material, no slag inclusions, and and much less heat tranferred to unwanted areas because of the preciseness of the tungsten electrode. While with ARC the vaporized slag that gives it its "sheilding effect" is smoky and cloudy, the TIG shielding gas is transparent letting the operator see the weld puddle or the keyhole clearly. With the TIG, having the operator controll the feeding of the filler rod gives much more controll over where and how much material is added to the weld, while the ARC deposits weld material constantly. When using stainless , there is no competition...TIG will always be superior to ARC (SMAW). Besides penetration, (which isnt a problem here because both can easily penetrate 3/8 -1/2) about the only advantage that ARC has is versatility: ease of changing rods for various metals and that it can me more easily used "in the field" (no gas driftng, lighter and more portable). These manifolds most likely will be fabbed inside in a controlled environment nullifying that advantage).

sorry for the long post,mark

[Chingon]

All things being equal, a skilled TIG operator will produce better quality welds on most materials than an ARC operator can.The fact that the gas flow and voltage are fully controllable "on the fly"by the operator place TIG in a class above the other methods. There will be less crystalization of the base material, no slag inclusions, and and much less heat tranferred to unwanted areas because of the preciseness of the tungsten electrode. While with ARC the vaporized slag that gives it its "sheilding effect" is smoky and cloudy, the TIG shielding gas is transparent letting the operator see the weld puddle or the keyhole clearly. With the TIG, having the operator controll the feeding of the filler rod gives much more controll over where and how much material is added to the weld, while the ARC deposits weld material constantly. When using stainless , there is no competition...TIG will always be superior to ARC (SMAW). Besides penetration, (which isnt a problem here because both can easily penetrate 3/8 -1/2) about the only advantage that ARC has is versatility: ease of changing rods for various metals and that it can me more easily used "in the field" (no gas driftng, lighter and more portable). These manifolds most likely will be fabbed inside in a controlled environment nullifying that advantage).

mark

While I fully agree that TIG welding is a superior method (cleaner/easier to control) the fact doesn't change that stick welding will form a stronger bond.