Weird noises, vibration, and other things...

[Bluejayde]

Alright, my first post on NICO. I've been lurking for a while, but registered so I could get some help with my current situation.

Background:

I bought the car a year ago, it's a 97 240sx with a little over 100k on it(now). it's completely stock with the exception of new wheels, which I installed this spring. The wheels are Sportmax's, 18X9.5R, 18X8.5F. I only mention this because the problem had become much more apparent over the summer, since I installed the wheels. I truly don't believe they have anything to do with it, other than the increased weight causing more stress on the suspension.

Problems/symptoms:

I first noticed excessive vibration when I installed the wheels. I attributed this to crappy stick-on weights, but now I wonder. The vibration get really bad around 50-65 MPH, typical of improperly balanced wheels.

The next thing I noticed was a weird clunking noise when cornering. It only happened when taking a corner hard, but it has gotten progressively worse, to the point where I am scared to drive curvy roads.

While changing my oil one day I discovered that when the wheel is off the ground, I can lift up on the wheel/tire and the top of the strut(the single nut inside the engine bay) will lift up and wiggle around. The passenger side is not able to do this.

Today while changing my oil I decided to check the ball joints and other suspension components. I had the suspension fully checked out when I installed the wheels/tires, including an alignment check, and everything was fine(or so they said). When I removed the drivers front wheel, I saw that I have EXCESSIVE wear on the inside of my tire, like bad camber/toe wear. The passenger side is not like this.

Please give me some ideas on this, I want to get it fixed. I will probably take it to the dealership today and talk to them, but I hate dealerships and don't want them to bull**** me and screw me over.

Thanks in advance,-Jay

[whiterps13]

The vibration is most likely your unbalanced wheels. Most shops have lifetime balancing, so take it back to where you had the tires mounted.

Im guessing the excessive tire wear is caused by toe out, because the car isnt lowered. If it was lowered you would expect higher than normal negative camber, but it would be on both sides.

I would take it to a new alignment shop, it doesnt sound like the previous place knew what they were doing. Dont go to the dealership, your wallet will hate you.

[Bluejayde]

The wheels have been balanced, I just don't have clip on wheel weights on the outside of the rim, I have stick-on's inside the wheel. I also don't have weights on the inside of the wheels on the front because there isn't enough clearance(pretty sad, huh?)

I've had the alignment checked twice in the year that I've owned it, once a few months after I bought it and again when I put the wheels on(at two different shops). But maybe it has worked itself out of alignment. I need to find a good alignment shop to go to, and pay a little extra for a really good job. I checked later today, it is wearing on the insides of the tire on both sides, just less on the passenger front.

I did go to the dealership today, and they said they'd check it out for me. The guy that was helping me decided to take it for a test drive, so I asked if I could go with him, promising not to bug him(I'm kinda anal about people working on my car). He agreed after a little bit, and we took off. We drove around for a bit, and I explained the details of what was happening. He drove like two miles and couldn't get the car to make the clunking noise, so finally I told him to hammer it on the next corner. He did, and he heard the noise.

We went back to the shop, and we were waiting inline to get in the shop with two people in front of us. The one immediately in front was a Ford Explorer. I heard him mumble under his breath "Get it out of the way- it's a damn Ford, not worth repairing anyway." I couldn't resit a chuckle!

We got in and he put the car up on the lift and he looked it over, checked out the balljoints and struts, and turned the wheels to make sure they weren't rubbing. He put it down on the ground(after finding a new plastic screw to hold up my inner fender liner). and got in, pulled out and parked it. He got the guy in charge and told him what was going on, and asked him if he wanted to test drive it. At this point I'm beginning to think these guys just wanna drive my car.

The new guy(his name is Kevin) hands the keys to me and tells me to drive. So we get in and I pulled out of the dealership. He tells me to keep going straight, and doesn't have me turn at the next intersection where the last guy had turned. We get to a roundabout(There are three of these things in my town, WTF?) and Kevin tells me to see if I can make the sound. So I start turning left on this roundabout and about halfway through I mash the gas pedal. Sorry, no crazy Dorifto moves, just a lot of tire squealing.

NO CLUNKING SOUND.

I couldn't believe it. So we headed back to the shop, and I was perplexed. Why didn't it make the noise? Then I remebered that the first guy had gotten it to make it on a right turn. So I took the next right and hit the gas. KEVIN HEARD THE NOISE.

So he basically told me that one of the CV joints in the BACK of the car was going out, the strut is supposed to have a little play(though I might want to replace the strut mount), and the alignment was not related to either.

Now, the question is: Should I believe him?

BTW, sorry about the long post, I thought it was kind of a funny story.

Oh yeah, the best part is the dealership didn't charge me a penny!

[Eddie]

I couldn't give you any good advice about the alignment, but as far as the vibrations go I can maybe give you some pointers.

It is ideal to balance a wheel dynamically which is when a wheel has weights on both sides of the wheel. After market wheels with low offsets and /or spokes that take up almost half the width of the wheel can only be balance statically with sticky weights down the center of the width of the rim. In your case with the sportmax wheels they probably had to static balance the wheel. Unless you are willing to have tape weights on your lip that is your only option.

1.) Balancing machines can be out of calibration so try geting them rebalanced like whiterps13 suggested.

2.) Did your wheels come with hub centric rings? If they didn't then get some, they only cost around $10.00 and you should be able to get some from a reputable tire/wheel dealer. It should hopefully take away the vibes because it helps center the wheel when it is being bolted up. If possible get this done along with the rebalance.

3.)If that doesn't work the try getting them ride matched to give your tire/wheel assemble the best uniformity possible. Ride match machines can also let the installer know if the tire needs replacing. I have encountered this before when diagnosing vibrations on customer's vehicles.

As for the alignment, try taking it to a place that speciallizes in alignments.

[nissanconvert]

I am amazed at your story since you're problems seem so identical to mine.I had three kinds of tires, three of them right side rotational and a dented rim when i bought the car. It shook between 55-65 mph and doesn't below or above. When making hard right turns there is a thud or pop or snap like sound (depending on who you ask) which seems to come form the front right bonnet area. Judging by the bumps/fenders and frame welds I know the car was wrecked so i don't know if i'll ever find the reason for my trouble.

I Took the car to a goodyear shop to get the fronts rebalanced, no luck it still shook.

Then I replced the dented rim with a new oem one and bought a whole new set of goodyear tripple treads. THe rims were dynamically balanced, no luck. Then I tok it to a garage of a friend of mine and balanced them myself, statically. No luck again.

As far as the turning noise I'm guessing a bad strut or loose joint in the sway bar, I already had one incident of loosing a suspension bolt while driving. (Lower rear a-arm bolt was missing/broke and gave me some crazy camber, lol) I plan to replace most of the suspension eventually and hoping the problem will leave with the old parts.

If you do find the solution please let us know and i'll do the same!

[Eddie]

From personal experience for the vibrations hub centric rings do wonders.

[Bluejayde]

The wheels were balanced dynamically, but not using a road force balancer. I'll try that next. I checked the CV joints today, the boots are not torn but I suppose it is possible that something is wrong with them inside. I switched to old steelies/tires so as not to eat through the expensive ones. I'm hoping that a fresh spring/damper combo, roadforce balancing, and alignment will fix the shaking and tire wear. As far as the other noise, if it gets worse I guess I'll replace the CV joints.

Anybody wanna spoonfeed me the cheapest place for AGX+Tein Type-S?

[Bluejayde]

The wheels were balanced dynamically, but not using a road force balancer. I'll try that next. I checked the CV joints today, the boots are not torn but I suppose it is possible that something is wrong with them inside. I switched to old steelies/tires so as not to eat through the expensive ones. I'm hoping that a fresh spring/damper combo, roadforce balancing, and alignment will fix the shaking and tire wear. As far as the other noise, if it gets worse I guess I'll replace the CV joints.

Anybody wanna spoonfeed me the cheapest place for AGX+Tein Type-S?

Also, I have been considering the hubcentric rings, but I wasn't sure if I needed them, I thought I read that you only need them if the surface area of your wheels is greater than the surface area of the hub mounting surface. Is this true?

[Eddie]

With your center cap off and wheel bolted up you should not see any space around your car's hub; you should not be able to see your hub mounting surface through the center cap hole. If so then you need hub centric rings.

[MoSinister]

Changing wheels was the first thing I was going to suggest. It should help determine if the new wheels have anything to do with it.

Does your car make the clunk when going over road humps? My car made similar sounding noises when driving over road humps or through pot holes (uneven road surface). The problem was blown struts. How old are yours?

When your car makes the sound, does it make you feel like something in the suspension is "loose" or that something is "binding"? My strut sound definitely sounded like something was loose. When my wife's Audi needed a CV joint replaced, it sounded more like something was binding. I obviously can't describe the feeling well over the Internet, but you probably know what I mean (I hope).

~Mo

[skydragoness]

I'm surprised no one mentioned t/c rods. If the front wheels balance out fine then i'd take a look at the rods, when the bushings deteriorate and ooze out that silicon grease they can cause shaking in the steering wheel (esp. under braking) and clunking noises. See also: bad tie rod ends (or inner tie rods)

The fact you could move your wheel and shock assembly up by hand is disconcerting I'd make sure those strut tower bolts that go to the shock are torqued down correctly. Another thing to consider would be your front wheel bearings. After you make sure everything has been torqued down correctly, with the front up in the air, sit down and try wiggling the wheel from side to side or up and down. Look for any play. There shouldn't be any. Although I think when wheel bearings go bad they also make a humming noise (correct me if i'm wrong people).

If you do get new shocks, please don't forget to get new upper strut mounts all the way around. They're not that expensive and can solve a lot of noise issues. KYB makes them.

Anyway. Consider those things..

[Bluejayde]

Good point about the T/C rods. I did notice that those bushing appear to be worn, I asked the Nissan technician about them, and he didn't seem that concerned, but I would like to get them replaced.

Is that something that should only be replaced with an OEM part, or is it okay to buy aftermarket? Is there an upgraded version of the T/C rods?

It's good to know KYB make the upper strut mounts, I guess those don't have to be OEM either?

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

[skydragoness]

Are you taking your car to a Nissan dealer? Any worn suspension parts could cause your issue (if wheel bearing and wheel balancing are ruled out). Also check your tie rods.

OEM is fine or you can go with adjustable (I recommend SPLparts' rods). It's up to you and what you want to do with the car. If you don't plan on doing suspension mods/autocrossing or drifting the car, then OEM will be just fine.

Strut mounts: KYB's mounts are cheaper, but i've had one be a hair off from the mounting hole so OEM will be better in that respect. Up to you what you want to pay for.

[BadMojo]

The bushings on my TC rods are completely crap and my tie rod ends are also bad. It has definitely had an effect on steering feel and particularly causes a clunk if I come to a stop while turning the wheel (ie. pulling in to a parking space).

I've got some Tein inner and outer tie rods and will be getting either Battle Version of SPL TC rods as soon as budget allows. Hopefully all installed before winter...if it ever stops raining.

[Bluejayde]

Okay, hate to bring it back but incase anyone's searching w/ a similar problem, I will.

I took the wheels to a different shop and had them dynamically balance my wheels. I now have clip-on weights on the outside but that doesn't bother me. They did try to charge me over $80 to balance my wheels, I think that's ridiculous. Proper balancing helped a lot.

I bought hubcentric rings. These didn't help a WHOLE lot, but they're cheap, so I say it was worth it.

I replaced the springs and shocks/struts. I installed myself and when I was done, no more movement of the strut body.

I got a lifetime alignment, what a deal! $125, aligned however you want, as many times as you want, for as long as you own the car. My best car purchase EVER. By the time the springs settled, it had paid for itself and I have free alignments for the rest of the car's life.

I have not replaced the CV yet, but I'm getting new axles soon. Overall the car is much better. Turns out to be a combo of a few different factors, just took a while to track it down.