Weird decel/dash issue

Post by **Cpatts350** » Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:39 pm

My girlfriends 2010 Nissan rouge has been giving us some issues. From what I understand it’s from a stop or when Turning. The car will hesitate, the dash/fuel gauge shuts off and blinks back on then it’s good to go. The car never stalls or shuts all the way off. Anyone heard of this?

I found one broken ground strap from the battery tray to the frame and replaced that. Cleaned the batter terminals. I ordered a new air filter. Did plugs and coils 6 months ago. New exhaust last month.

It does have two codes for very small evap leak that I can’t seem to find either.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:01 pm

See if you can get it to act up by shifting Forward-Reverse-Forward-Reverse and gassing it with your foot on the brake to rock the engine. If so, the problem will be in the main power or ground cables. It's common for the latter to corrode or even break where the main engine ground connects to the tranny, especially if the engine mounts are bad. That can cause all sorts of wild misbehavior.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:53 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:01 pm
See if you can get it to act up by shifting Forward-Reverse-Forward-Reverse and gassing it with your foot on the brake to rock the engine. If so, the problem will be in the main power or ground cables. It's common for the latter to corrode or even break where the main engine ground connects to the tranny, especially if the engine mounts are bad. That can cause all sorts of wild misbehavior.

Any quick tips on where to look for that main ground at the trans? I tried to trace it real quick but I didn’t have time to Jack up the car. Is ut pretty obvious once I get under there?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:31 am

It usually attaches either to the top left or left end of the tranny casing. If memory serves it's on top on a gen1 Rogue, but it's been a while since I did any tranny-slinging (I'm old and they don't make me do that anymore). Peel the left wheel well cover back a bit and you should be able to see it.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:28 pm

I’d like to revise what I had said the issue was. She got the rpm gauge the the mileage one confused and it made it seem different

So what happens is. She will most of the time from a stop. Hit the gas and the car gets to 10-20mph. Then the throttle goes dead and the rpm gauge drops to idle id assume. It’s never happened when I’m driving. It happened yesterday going uphill. The car has 150,000 miles and we’d like to get another 50,000 out of it.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:30 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:31 am
It usually attaches either to the top left or left end of the tranny casing. If memory serves it's on top on a gen1 Rogue, but it's been a while since I did any tranny-slinging (I'm old and they don't make me do that anymore). Peel the left wheel well cover back a bit and you should be able to see it.

Spot on where it was. I found it and all looks well. Cleaned it up anyway. See my above post for the revised issue. I’m thinking throttle position sensor possibly?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:08 am

There have to be codes in it if the problem is the TPS. Both the TPS and APP have redundant systems, so it's basically impossible for them to fail without the ECM knowing about it. The list of things that can fail without the ECM being able to check it is pretty small:
MAF (Lying, not flatlined)
Fuel Pressure/Volume
Crank/Cam Sensors (Lying, not flatlined)
Exhaust Blockage
ECM Relay failure

Post by **Cpatts350** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:24 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:08 am
There have to be codes in it if the problem is the TPS. Both the TPS and APP have redundant systems, so it's basically impossible for them to fail without the ECM knowing about it. The list of things that can fail without the ECM being able to check it is pretty small:
MAF (Lying, not flatlined)
Fuel Pressure/Volume
Crank/Cam Sensors (Lying, not flatlined)
Exhaust Blockage
ECM Relay failure

Crank/cam sensors were my first though. But I just can’t get passed how I can drive it 100 miles and not have it happen and she gets in it next day and it happens.

I did clean the maf with maf cleaner. And the exhaust was just replaced from the flex pipe back using the original cat.

I’ll look into a fuel issue and maybe the ecm. I don’t think I’ve ever changed a fuel pump in this car

With it being so intermittent I’m afraid to bring it in to Nissan and pay to have them find nothing. Last time it went in for a noise I couldn’t figure out. They just said to change every suspension part for 5000$ but it wasn’t worth it because the cars only worth three.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:37 pm

I also have a p0456 code that I assume has nothing to do with this issue

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:14 am

P0456 on almost everything Nissan will be either a bad evap Vent Control Valve or a bad grommet that the valve fits into. There's a bulletin about it:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 1-0001.pdf

Post by **Cpatts350** » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:38 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:14 am
P0456 on almost everything Nissan will be either a bad evap Vent Control Valve or a bad grommet that the valve fits into. There's a bulletin about it:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 1-0001.pdf

I wouldn’t expect that to cause a drivability issue though?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:23 am

No, P0456 is a "small leak" code that occurs in a way that makes the ECM suspect the leak is at the evap and not the gas cap. The only evap codes that usually affect drivability are purge codes, so by itself a P0456 should be harmless.

Considering the boggy behavior, I think my first suspicion would be a dying fuel pump or a fuel pump wiring problem causing the fuel pressure and volume to fall off. Check the fuel pump connector for blackening of the ground pin before anything else. If you find any, replace the pump along with repairing or replacing the connector. Black ground pins are almost always a result of the pump motor drawing too much current.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:29 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:23 am
No, P0456 is a "small leak" code that occurs in a way that makes the ECM suspect the leak is at the evap and not the gas cap. The only evap codes that usually affect drivability are purge codes, so by itself a P0456 should be harmless.

Considering the boggy behavior, I think my first suspicion would be a dying fuel pump or a fuel pump wiring problem causing the fuel pressure and volume to fall off. Check the fuel pump connector for blackening of the ground pin before anything else. If you find any, replace the pump along with repairing or replacing the connector. Black ground pins are almost always a result of the pump motor drawing too much current.

I’ll check it out. I really do appreciate the help! I’m hoping to run this car into the grave at some point

Post by **Cpatts350** » Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:42 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:23 am
No, P0456 is a "small leak" code that occurs in a way that makes the ECM suspect the leak is at the evap and not the gas cap. The only evap codes that usually affect drivability are purge codes, so by itself a P0456 should be harmless.

Considering the boggy behavior, I think my first suspicion would be a dying fuel pump or a fuel pump wiring problem causing the fuel pressure and volume to fall off. Check the fuel pump connector for blackening of the ground pin before anything else. If you find any, replace the pump along with repairing or replacing the connector. Black ground pins are almost always a result of the pump motor drawing too much current.

No burnt grounds. I’m going to just replace it for 80$ when it gets here on Monday.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Mon May 02, 2022 5:27 am

Got the pump replaced drove great running awesome. Parked it. This morning p0183popped up. I’m seeing that could be a grounding issue or a bad sensor. Will check the grounds Tonight and see what’s going on

Post by **VStar650CL** » Mon May 02, 2022 7:09 am

That has to be a bad ground or a wrong sensor, but the ground is back through the GND-A bus in the ECM and not the pump ground. The Orange wire on pin 2 at the pump is signal, the Red on pin 1 is ground. The ECM analog grounds are safe to ohm through, so you can use an ohmmeter between pin 1 and the chassis to check it with the connector loose. It should read less than an ohm, but the sensor resistance is in kilohms so even a few ohms of resistance shouldn't cause FTT issues (although it may indicate a problem with the main ECM main ground or vehicle ground). If the ground checks out and you read 5V on the Orange wire, then chances are the sensor is bad or wrong. You can check that by back-probing voltage on the Orange wire with the connector in place. It should read about 3.5V with room temperature fuel, but there's a graph on EC-700 in the FSM for different temperatures. Keep in mind that P0182/P0183 only occur during EONV testing when the vehicle is sitting parked, so they pretty much always show up overnight and can't be duplicated immediately after erasure. The sensor is live anytime the key is on, but the only time the ECM actually looks at it is during EONV.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Mon May 02, 2022 5:36 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Mon May 02, 2022 7:09 am
That has to be a bad ground or a wrong sensor, but the ground is back through the GND-A bus in the ECM and not the pump ground. The Orange wire on pin 2 at the pump is signal, the Red on pin 1 is ground. The ECM analog grounds are safe to ohm through, so you can use an ohmmeter between pin 1 and the chassis to check it with the connector loose. It should read less than an ohm, but the sensor resistance is in kilohms so even a few ohms of resistance shouldn't cause FTT issues (although it may indicate a problem with the main ECM main ground or vehicle ground). If the ground checks out and you read 5V on the Orange wire, then chances are the sensor is bad or wrong. You can check that by back-probing voltage on the Orange wire with the connector in place. It should read about 3.5V with room temperature fuel, but there's a graph on EC-700 in the FSM for different temperatures. Keep in mind that P0182/P0183 only occur during EONV testing when the vehicle is sitting parked, so they pretty much always show up overnight and can't be duplicated immediately after erasure. The sensor is live anytime the key is on, but the only time the ECM actually looks at it is during EONV.

At this point I think I owe you about a million dollars. I got to looking at the old pump and found the far left pin corroeded and snapped off. Some how it’s stuck in the harness and I was able to plug in still. Not sure how. So I pulled it apart got the piece out. Going to see if the code returns. Not sure how I missed the corrosion on the plug when you first suggested to look but hey. I’m an idiot I guess

Post by **VStar650CL** » Mon May 02, 2022 7:37 pm

You're most welcome, glad I could help. They sell those pump connectors all over eBay if you need to replace it. Just make sure you use solder-shrinks and not butt connectors (remember, that crap is actually living underneath the car). It's actually not hard to replace just the one pin, the white face-piece on the connector just pops off and then you'll see the pawls that hold the pins in. Relieve the pawl and pull the pin out the back. For the benefit of others, popping that face-piece loose also makes corroded pins a lot easier to spot, since you're no longer looking at it through a microscopic hole.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Tue May 03, 2022 6:53 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Mon May 02, 2022 7:37 pm
You're most welcome, glad I could help. They sell those pump connectors all over eBay if you need to replace it. Just make sure you use solder-shrinks and not butt connectors (remember, that crap is actually living underneath the car). It's actually not hard to replace just the one pin, the white face-piece on the connector just pops off and then you'll see the pawls that hold the pins in. Relieve the pawl and pull the pin out the back. For the benefit of others, popping that face-piece loose also makes corroded pins a lot easier to spot, since you're no longer looking at it through a microscopic hole.

Solder and shrink tube are my go to. Going to get that replaced this weekend. Hopfully that fixes the issue. The wife says it happened again today. I’m sure the new plug will take care of it. If not I’ll be back!

Really thank you again!

Post by **VStar650CL** » Tue May 03, 2022 8:16 pm

Solder and shrink tube aren't waterproof. Tape the crap out of it if you go that way.

Post by **C-ya** » Thu May 05, 2022 8:36 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Tue May 03, 2022 8:16 pm
Solder and shrink tube aren't waterproof. Tape the crap out of it if you go that way.

Agreed. When the repair needs to be weather-proof, I use marine shrink tube with adhesive/sealant inside.

Post by **Cpatts350** » Fri May 06, 2022 10:15 am

C-ya wrote: ↑
Thu May 05, 2022 8:36 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Tue May 03, 2022 8:16 pm
Solder and shrink tube aren't waterproof. Tape the crap out of it if you go that way.
Agreed. When the repair needs to be weather-proof, I use marine shrink tube with adhesive/sealant inside.

The tubing I’ve always used is lined with some clear sealant that melts with the heat. Hopfully that connector shows up today

Weird decel/dash issue

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