WEIRD crank at startup?!---any suggestions PLEASE?

[MaDD_Drizzle]

Alright so i reworked my head cuz i blew my head gasket and whatnot and put the car back together again. but when i first started the car...the engine started once at the very first crank but died off few seconds later....

(i should have given it some gas to keep the car alive since the car was sitting for 3 months since i wasnt working on it everyday). when i tried to crank it again it wasnt starting and the starter sounded like it was struggling to get the car to start. So i figured ....ok...the starter wasnt always the most reliable one cuz even b4 the head gasket blew sometimes if i let go of the key too fast and the car doesnt start it gives me a hard time to start the second time so i have to let it rest b4 i try again. I'm gonna check if the battery is crap and my father also tells me it could be the ignition coil thats not giving the car a spark.

so i am going down the list of things that could be a potential problem for my car sounding like its struggling to start

oh when i restarted my car the day after the first time crank it sounded for the 1st second i cranked it a little stronger of a cranking sound then the other times but not enough to get the car going.

HERE IS THE LIST

1. Battery2. Starter3. Ignition coil4. Spark plugs?5. no fuel goin into the cylinder bay? injectors...6. bad ground or wiring?7. bad timing?---(though im sure i put the timing on correct spot)

ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATEDPLEASE HELP!!
Modified by MaDD_Drizzle at 9:17 PM 1/1/2008

[MaDD_Drizzle]

nobody has any suggestions?....dang...that sucks

im goin one by one through everythin so see what it possibly could be and even did an ecu diagnosis which said that everything seemed to be fine but why is it giving me such a hard time?....

If the timing is off by one tooth...would that be enough to keep the engine from cranking?

[01Blackerado]

First thing you should try doing... get a ratchet and try turing the crank by hand. That way you can physically feel contact of the pistons and valves if the timing is off. If thats ok and timing is good then the next thing I'd check is wiring!!! Cam sensor, crank sensor, fuel injectors, etc. If wiring is all good then you need to check the rest of the mechanical parts of the vehicle. Alternator, starter, battery, coil, wiring (not saying you did this wrong but just suggesting....wiring order for firing)

Let us know how it's coming

[MaDD_Drizzle]

i double checked all the wiring and sensors...there is spark goin into the engine cuz i checked all the spark plug wires for a spark...and yes they shoot...the starter also seems to work cuz it managed to start it the first time even though it wasnt for very long but it went... so starter seems to be turning the engine so its not that either. and as far as the crank sensor fuel injectors and cam sensor....they all seemed to be ok or at least thats what my ecu diagnostic said......only thing left that i can think of doing is checking the timing manually like u just finished saying.

[01Blackerado]

How much can that diagnostic tell you?? Can it read LTFT and STFT%?? If so, try reading that while starting it...posibally you're missing somethig somewhere involving the A/F Mixture upon startup, and at idle. Also try fluttering the throttle to start it up. Let me know if you can get it to startup when you throttle it a little!!! I wonder if you have a slightly bigger issue like, not saying you did this but, in some cases the head gasket can go on upside down. Do you have head studs?? Or do you have head bolts??? If you have head bolts then you migt need to check and see if got any liquid inside one of the bolt holes!!

[cmoody2006]

Mine was like this for a while then all of a sudden it wouldn't start period like when i turned the key. So I installed a push button starter and that fixed my problem I don't know if that helps or not. I would pull the head back off and see if your pistons have hit the valves if you can't crank it over. If so game over..... Did you have the head milled down? Or just checked for crackes and warpage?

[MaDD_Drizzle]

the ecu diagnostic checks all these areas...

11 - Camshaft position sensor 12 - Mass Air Flow Meter Sensor 13 - Coolant Temperature sensor circuit 14 - Vehicle Speed Sensor signal circuit is open 15 - Mixture ratio is too lean despite feedback control; fuel injector clogged 21- Ignition signal in the primary circuit is not being entered to the ECUduring cranking or tuning 22 - Idle speed control valve or circuit 23 - Idle switch (throttle valve switch) signal circuit open 24 - Park/Neutral switch malfunctioning 25 - Idle Air Control Valve 28 - Cooling fan 29 - Fuel system rich 31 - ECU internal problem 32 - EGR malfunction (California models) 33 - Front O2 sensor 34 - Detonation (Knock) Sensor 35 - Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor (California models) 36 - EGRC-BPT valve 37 - Closed Loop 41 - Intake Air temperature sensor 43 - Throttle Position Sensor 44 - No trouble codes stored in ECU 45 - Injector fuel leak (California models only) 51 - Fuel injector circuit open (California models only) 53 - Oxygen sensor (300ZX right side) 54 - Short between automatic transmission control unit (TCU) and ECU 55- Normal engine management system operation is indicated – thismeans all is OK. 65 - Misfire detected - cylinder no. 4 66 - Misfire detected - cylinder no. 3 67 - Misfire detected - cylinder no. 2 68 - Misfire detected - cylinder no. 1 71 - Misfire Detected - Random 72 - Catalytic Converter Malfunction 74 - EVAP pressure sensor 75 - EVAP leak76 - Fuel injection system77 - Rear O2 sensor81 - Vacuum cut bypass valve82 - Crankshaft Position Sensor 84 - Automatic transmission-to-Fuel Injection Communication Line 85 - VTC solenoid 87 - EVAP canister purge control 91 - Front oxygen sensor 95 - Crank Cog 98 - Coolant temperature sensor 103 - Park/neutral switch 105 - EGR and canister control valve (Solenoid) 108 - EVAP volume control 111 - Inhibitor Switch 112 - Vehicle Speed Sensor A/T 113 - A/T 1st Signal114 - A/T 2nd Signal 115 - A/T 3rd Signal 116 - A/T 4th Signal or TCC 118 - Shift Solenoid/V A 121 - Shift Solenoid/V B 123 - Overrun Clutch S/V 124 - TOR Converter Clutch SV 125 - Line Pressure S/V 126 - Throttle Position Sensor A/T 127 - Engine Speed Signal 128 - Fluid Temp Sensor

im not sure what u mean by ftst or the other one but here u can see what it intails. i also tried fluttering the throttle on startup and it was showing a little sign of wanting to crank but then it went right back to the weak crank sound again.

i also had the head checked and resurfaced so i know that cant be it either...even tried adding a little more gasoline through the spark plug ports to see if it wasnt getting enough into the engine to start and it seemed to show just a bit of extra effort when i cranked it right after but STILL not enough...

and for the head bolts head studs question...mine is a ka24de so im not quite sure which of the 2 u are trying to imply to...when i had the engine apart there were some guides when i took the old head gasket off...is that what u were talking about? let me know what u mean by head studs/bolts.

[01Blackerado]

The head bolt/studs will be whatever you used to secure the head to the actual block /motor. If your block had head studs, then you would've only used washers and nuts to secure the head in place...if head bolts, then you used an actual long set of bolts to secure the head....the water in the hole can only occur if you have head bolts!!! Studs are already in the bolt holes so liquid or anything else for that matter have n chance of getting in there.

The LTFT and STFT are long term fuel trims and short term fuel trims!! They will basically tell you how much fuel that the ecu is dumping into the motor OR how much it's trying to take away!!! A high positive fuel trim(+9 through +25%) would intell that you are getting more air inside the chamber than you should be (Whether that means failed injector or Air leak idk!). If you have lower fuel trims (-9 through -25%) then its pulling fuel meaing youre dumpig way too much in for some reason!!

Not sure if this will help you or not, but it could help you find the problem...good luck man, let us know what happens

[01Blackerado]

Hey, I just thought of something else to check!!! Not saying you did this but...make sure you put the correct cam in the correct spot!!!... Like Ex. Cam on the Ex. side of the head!!! and Intake Cam on its correct side!!! I've seen people swith them and it has the same underligning issue that yours is having!!

[jetroy240]

sounds like the timing is off, check ur cam timing & distributor timing

[gunmetalrps]

not sure if u did this but its a suggestion. ive done couple rebuilds so this sounds like a timing issue. make sure that piston no.1 is all the way up and the blade inside the distributor cap is by the no. 1 spark plug wire contact(the one that the blade hits inside the distributor cap) you can check if cylinder 1 is up by sticking a long screwdriver with tape wrapped around the point. and at the same time align the blade.

if thats not ur prob, best of luck.

[Florida240sx]

Either distributor timing, or cam timing, or HG install wrong.

[MaDD_Drizzle]

the cam timing was a bit off so i adjusted it again and got the car started....ironically enough it was idling at between 800 to 1200 for first minute or so and then settled down to 900 even and stayed there so i was happy with that...until my dad decided to rev the engine up a bit see what happened and poof goes the brand new head gasket i just frikkin finished putting inside. took spark plugs off and the first cylinder was oozing with oil but the other 3 spark plugs were fine so i take it this time it was cylinder one where the gasket blew...it was smoking like crazy and overheating just as well so now i get to do this crap ALL over again...

lesson learned....DO NOT BU A HEAD GASKET SET FROM EBAY!!!! spend the extra money and invest in something worth getting when u are working with a delicate and presision item such as engine mechanical.

I'm beating myself up now cuz my brother told me that one of his friends bought the same exact gasket set for his 300zx and his also blew right after startup.