weight savings on the vert?

[caspers_240]

ok, new project dubbed "VertAttack" is going to be a very multi-talented machine... I've been told that you can't have a drift car that is also competitive in autox, and TT while maintaining daily driver capabilities. I've also been told that the vert will not make a good race car and I should keep my hatch... But, being the "oh yeah, watch this/I can do anything" kind of guy I've always been; I bought a vert. My first order of business is swap over everything from my hatch and get the weight down.

So far, i have a few basic ideas, but i'm always open for new ones, recommendations and regrets from others that have been down this road. the first thing i did was stole the manual doors off an extra hatch shell i had, then removed the A/C, lines, condenser, blower motor, ect. Removed emissions junk, hydraulic pump, lines and cylinders, and swapping in the 5-speed w/ my 11lb flywheel.

Future plans include:KA-T setup (still need injectors, mani, and misc oil/water plumbing)CF hood and maybe trunk lid if it will shed enough for the $$six-point cage (then i can cut out some crap in the back too)

So, i guess my main ? is... how did you guys get ur verts down to a decent fighting weight? and what should i expect as a safe running weight?thanks guys for the input. Later.

[-RJ-]

are you fat?

[S15nS13vert]

are you fat?

but some1 already drift on the vert profesionaly

[caspers_240]

r u a smart/dumb ***?

[caspers_240]

no... my point is to "safely" shave enough weight (400~500lbs) to stay competitive w/ the evo's and mustangs that i run against in Street Mod now... and still be legal for NASA's TTs later this year. I'm not trying to be capt. super drifter or anything either, but when i go to an event and there are ~40 hatches and coupes, yeah, the vert would stand out a bit. kinda goes with the whole against the flow thing...

I was asking to see if anyone had any intelligent suggestions to add to my "to-do/have-done" list in order to prove the nay-sayers (and smart-asses) wrong. I searched and haven't really found anything besides Greg's writeup on the door thing. Thought it may be a good thread... and hopefully it still will
Modified by caspers_240 at 9:56 PM 5/26/2008

[Eikon]

RJ was just referring to the fact that dropping a few lb's from the driver is a common issue.

Greg is probably one of the few who've dropped some serious weight from the car. Door swaps are huge weight savings. Removing the top or at least the power items (pump and hydrolic rams) is another huge weight savings. He says his vert is now lighter than a standard S13 coupe, only more rigid thanks to some strut bars and a few other tweaks. Since it's going to be a daily driver, I'd remove the pump and rams to save weight, but keep the top assembly intact so that you can operate it manually for those rainy days.

If you put in a cage, you'll more than make up for the rigidity advantage that a coupe or fastback has, while maintaining a lower weight as well.

[whoflungpoo]

ditch the popup headlights for fixed, even if you don't go for a conversion you'd be surprised how heavy the motors are.

if you're serious about weight, you need to be looking at the SR. aluminum block == lighter weight.

ditch the spare tire (duh)

if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, chuck the spoiler, and get a lighter battery and put it in the trunk.

[-RJ-]

r u a smart/dumb ***?

a little bit of both lol, i apologize if i offended you. i was gonna reply back but i fell asleep. i say that because alot of people nowadays... not saying you are, are rather on the bigger side. 2 years ago i used to be 145 lbs now im almost 200 lol.. a 60 pound weight reduction off my *** would be a good deal. thats the equivalent to a coupe/hatch door conversion lol, but as you mentioned you already did the door conversion and the 5 speed swap, the vert doors are heavier than the coupe/hatch (as im sure you notcied) and the 5spd transmission is roughly 50lbs lighter than the auto. a cf would would shave alot of weight off and a cf trunk would be nice too. if you want to go all out get cf doors, i saw someone in va selling them off his hatch, i can get his info your interested, and take out all the sounds deadening in the car. Oduessy batteries are a good investment, they wight less than 10lbs i think

but i think you should get the cf doors anyway, those are hot

[caspers_240]

ditch the popup headlights for fixed, even if you don't go for a conversion you'd be surprised how heavy the motors are.

if you're serious about weight, you need to be looking at the SR. aluminum block == lighter weight.

ditch the spare tire (duh)

if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, chuck the spoiler, and get a lighter battery and put it in the trunk.

relocated Braile Battery, "fixed" piaa head lights (i know a great place to buy them from; check the sig,) -~50lbs... Very good stuff!

Hydraulic pump, cylinders and lines= removed ~20doors= swapped for hatch manual doors ~100sound deadening= gone ~50auto transmission= swapped ~50flywheel= replaced w/ Fidenza 11lb unit -18heavy seats= drivers replaced w/ 16lb Corbeau, need pass. rear gone. ~50A/C= all components removed ~60CF hood= will have to wait until turbo setup is complete (very soon:evilgrin) ~?CF trunk lid= maybe ~?CF doors= my wife would kill me they do look pretty nasty tho...~?light weight battery= on the list ~30PIAA headlights= love the idea, also on the list ~20Aluminum driveshaft= after boost, but on the list ~30?

any other ideas, corrections ect? i'm open! this is a pretty good start i think... keep it coming!

[AZhitman]

Hydraulic pump, cylinders and lines= removed ~20

any other ideas, corrections ect? i'm open! this is a pretty good start i think... keep it coming!

More like 40 lbs.

The top assembly is about 40, and I dropped over 30 lbs in wiring (unnecessary wires, fuses, connectors and tape).

Front / rear bumper supports are super-heavy, and the stock exhaust is weighty as well.

Heater core, fan, and emissions crap add up to another 50+ lbs.

It's an easy car to shed weight from.

[caspers_240]

a little bit of both lol, i apologize if i offended you. i was gonna reply back but i fell asleep. i say that because alot of people nowadays... not saying you are, are rather on the bigger side. 2 years ago i used to be 145 lbs now im almost 200 lol.. a 60 pound weight reduction off my *** would be a good deal. thats the equivalent to a coupe/hatch door conversion lol, but as you mentioned you already did the door conversion and the 5 speed swap, the vert doors are heavier than the coupe/hatch (as im sure you notcied) and the 5spd transmission is roughly 50lbs lighter than the auto. a cf would would shave alot of weight off and a cf trunk would be nice too. if you want to go all out get cf doors, i saw someone in va selling them off his hatch, i can get his info your interested, and take out all the sounds deadening in the car. Oduessy batteries are a good investment, they wight less than 10lbs i think

but i think you should get the cf doors anyway, those are hot

Hey RJ, sorry for the misunderstanding! i may be just a little touchy about my extra 10lbs or so my wife calls it my daddyass...

thanks for the input, i forgot all about the battery! at this point, i'd probably have to pass on the cf doors, but please post all ideas that you may have. Just b/c i don't particularly want to go that way, someone else may like the idea. later.

[caspers_240]

More like 40 lbs.

The top assembly is about 40, and I dropped over 30 lbs in wiring (unnecessary wires, fuses, connectors and tape).

Front / rear bumper supports are super-heavy, and the stock exhaust is weighty as well.

Heater core, fan, and emissions crap add up to another 50+ lbs.

It's an easy car to shed weight from.

Thanks! I was waiting to check out the FSM b4 i started ripping out the big cluster F of wires back there. the only wires i want in the back will be for the lights and fuel stuff, just wasn't sure yet what was safe to remove. By assembly, do you mean the top and frame? or just the pump, cylinders ect?Thanks again for the input--you have a very, very sick vert btw... love the "old school low rider-isk" wheels!

[twistedsymphony]

Go with some lighter weight wheels... not sure what you're using now but changing wheels can realistically save up to 12lbs per wheel depending on what you're going from and what you're going too. Better handling characteristics too because of less wheight.

light weight flywheels and pulleys, only save a few pounds on the car as a whole but reduced weight on the drive train parts see many times the benefit.

Not sure how much mirrors weight but you can go with some manual adjust CF mirrors and ditch the stockers with the adjustment motors.

If you're hardcore you can replace all the glass with pelxi too.

I'd also reiterate doing a brick headlight conversion and an SR swap for the best all round performance increase.

Also consider driving lessons... IMO winning is 75% skill 20% tire choice and 5% everything else.... building an impressivly light car is all well and good but it's worthless unless you've got good technique.

Case and point: the winner of the local auto cross events I went to in college was always this guy with a bone stock and beat to snot 1990 ford escort, he would decimate guys in WRXs, EVOs, and Cooper Ss with 30K worth of aftermarket... the guy just knew how to drive.

[BigMACKenzie]

YO! def go CF on the doors and wherever else you can to save weight, In reality you are only about 400lbs overweight compared to the stock hatch. ditch that safety glass on the front windshield and side windows in exchange for some high grade plastic (if you are just auto/x/drifting shouldnt be a legal issue unless track/series rules prohibit this) that plus carbon fiber should put you back into the hatchs stock weight range. other than that the sr20 swap is also good for the previous weight saving properties (and boost <3 )

[caspers_240]

Go with some lighter weight wheels...

running 17x8 FNOR1-C's right now all around. Falken RT 615's 235's up F. 245 out back. Not THE lightest wheels, but the best bang for the buck (at the time i bought them anyway) for sure.

light weight flywheels and pulleys, only save a few pounds on the car as a whole but reduced weight on the drive train...

Agreed! two of my first upgrades done to my hatch (besides suspension) were flex-a-lite duel 12" electric fans and the 11lb flywheel--beat the HELL out of intake and exhaust imo...

I'd also reiterate doing a brick headlight conversion and an SR swap for the best all round performance increase.

Noted. but, no offense, never been one for the whole "jdm" craze... a friend offered me the front end conversion if i would put it on the vert, but had to respectfully decline. I will however remove the HL motors and replace the bulbs w/ something from PIAA.On the SR, can't do it... I've had one sitting under my car port for over two months (finally sold sunday) from a friend's wrecked car i stripped, and had absolutely NO desire to install it. I've also been defending my decision to build the KA to another friend that wants me to do an LS1 swap (LS1 is - 40lbs)... I've driven SR's and LS1's (and was impressed), but its just something about killing bad-*** cars w/ a "truck motor" that i can't shake...

Also consider driving lessons...

not too shabby now, but there is ALWAYS room to learn... my competition is pretty tough, but I've remained a serious threat even w/ the stock ka and good handling. I kinda did everything back-asswords when i started modding the hatch... the first thing i bought was a set of KTS coilovers, then wheels and tires, then some Whiteline adj Swaybars (HIGHLY recommended, know a great place to get them too;)) KAAZ LSD, poly bushings, adj links, ect, ect. My point is, learning how to DRIVE my car was first priority! and it still is--

Thanks for the input!

[caspers_240]

GOOD NEWS!!! just spoke to my cage designer (This guy has been building and/or racing serious round-track cars for over 45 yrs!) he said that the pipe we're going to use (same stuff NASCAR uses) is just over a pound for every 2 feet (.62lb per foot)! This means a NASA/SCCA legal 6-point will only weigh 45~65 lbs!!! with the goal of 2600lbs of bad-*** vert, and the ideas we have thrown back and forth, i believe this can be done... GOOD WORK GUYS! Thanks!

But please, we are still open to new ideas... i think i can feel another build thread coming...

[240zac]

wow.... light cage.

a while ago i was talking to someone about weight reductions. he said to find 100 places to remove a couple ounces rather than one or 2 places to shave a couple pounds. (this is of course, after you do the easy big weight redustions)

[-RJ-]

i think the front coilovers are lighter than stock by 7 or 8 lbs i think. at least it felt that way to me when i changed my stockers for megans

also change the windshield to some kind of heavy duty plastic? is bullet proff glass heavier than regualr glass lol? just a suggestion

[twistedsymphony]

a pretty radical idea but it's worth mentioning...

consider building a top mount ladder bar... I've seen them on miatas in japan that connect to the top of the windshield frame and brace in the trunk. http://i126.photobucket.com/al...0.jpg

then do some foam injection for extra rigidity: showthread.php?t=162693

once you do that REMOVE all the extra bracing that the Convertible has installed. You likely wont need it do to the new light weight bracing installed and your care will end up stiffer and lighter than a coupe.

...oh and I might take you up on that good deal on whiteline sways... the new exhaust on my S14 hangs pretty close to the factory sway and chatters on occasion, so while I don't need new sways I might consider buying one just to help prevent exhaust damage... not to mention when I was looking at it the bushings were shot and those things Nissan called endlinks were a joke
Modified by twistedsymphony at 3:11 PM 5/28/2008

[TIMELSS_vert]

ok, don't kill me for not reading every word of the thread, not sure how DD this is supposed to be but....

1) smaller aluminum fuel cell (8 gal.)2) remove bumper supports and such3) rip out all a/c and heater components 4) titanium exhaust5) fiberglass fenders (possibly rear wide body, cutting sheet metal out and replacing w/ frp)6) if you have to wait on a frp or cf hood, cut the skeleton out of it

thats all i can think of

[94_240sx]

This is awsome, but where's outer trim/belt? It'll look better with it.

[onosqv]

I'm guessing w/ all this work, you are at least competitive currently in your hatch, right?

My autox instructors drove my s13 vert stock faster than I can drive my s13 vert fully modified, hahaha. Equally modified hatch/coupe vs vert, the hatch/coupe should still be lighter.

Greg, the top assembly itself (frame, top only) should weigh closer to 90lbs, no? I carry bags of rice all the time (50lbs) & the top is DEFINITELY much heavier - I had one shipped to me, so I had to move it to the car.

Of course, may have to do more w/ the overall mass of the thing, but I swear it's significantly heavier than 40lbs.

[caspers_240]

I'm guessing w/ all this work, you are at least competitive currently in your hatch, right?

Well, I'm no Randy Pobst yet, but yeah. 2nd in points in two different regions w/ ~stock ka and street tires... i wouldn't be pushing the pwr to lb issue so much but at the last autox that damn 350+ hp evo (with launch control, tein EVERYTHING running on reo1's) was killing me on the almost 8th mile straight at the start... if i was concerned with starting out with the "best" platform, i would've bought a coupe and installed an RB25. but hey, i like to be different...

but also very serious about my racing. i really can't think of anything else i'd rather do. (pisses my wife off when i say that) Thats why i have to be carefull about what i do so i'm not jumped up into a class w/ unlimited evo's ans sti's in NASA TT. i'm not a very good looser

[onosqv]

Well, I'm no Randy Pobst yet, but yeah. 2nd in points in two different regions w/ ~stock ka and street tires... i wouldn't be pushing the pwr to lb issue so much but at the last autox that damn 350+ hp evo (with launch control, tein EVERYTHING running on reo1's) was killing me on the almost 8th mile straight at the start... if i was concerned with starting out with the "best" platform, i would've bought a coupe and installed an RB25. but hey, i like to be different...

but also very serious about my racing. i really can't think of anything else i'd rather do. (pisses my wife off when i say that) Thats why i have to be carefull about what i do so i'm not jumped up into a class w/ unlimited evo's ans sti's in NASA TT. i'm not a very good looser

What class are you running in @ autox? With some of the mods you are considering, you may even push yourself out of SM...

I'm no caspers_240 (usually 2nd to last in unlimited class, well, I think I even lose to the majority of the guys in stock class), but my vert is pretty well prepped, rofl. good luck man.

[caspers_240]

What class are you running in @ autox? With some of the mods you are considering, you may even push yourself out of SM...

yeah, SM is where i want to stay. and the way NASA does the "point system" it gives me some leeway. Definitely have to keep factory glass, fenders and most of the interior...

When i decided to buy the vert, i knew of it had two drawbacks:1. Weight (shave 500lbs)2. Flex (install a cage)and one very big plus: lower center-of-gravity. I don't want to go overboard, i just want around the same weight (or maybe a little less) than my hatch is running at now. I hate a heavy car. i will double check before i do anything questionable (our new house is side-tracking me a bit anyway). good point though!
Modified by caspers_240 at 7:56 AM 5/31/2008

[-RJ-]

you can shave 3 pounds by switching from the 240sx shift knob to a sentra shift knob lol.. no lie

[YOUNG240SX]

even hatch power door is lighter,i want to do the same with my vert.the only thing that sucks is that i got kill about 300lbs just to be at stock weight of the car.im doin the door swap,5speed,silvia front and a/c once i pull the motor out.im hoping to have shaved off 250lbs more or less,im a big guy 270lbs 6'3'' .

[caspers_240]

just an update... vert doors weigh 100lbs even. each!manual roll-up doors from a hatch weighed in at 70 lbs each.

[YOUNG240SX]

thanks for the update..door swap isnt the best for lose weight for the vert