Weight index for 240's? I want to build my next project car as light as possible....

[Black R]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum but not new to cars.

I have been playing with honda's for a while now, but have had an s13 project in the back of my head for a long time..... I want to build an 11sec drifter.....

Which year s13/ 240 would be the lightest base to build on?

I'm not interested in power windows or sunroof or anything like that, but I prefer the coupe's. And I know I like the early 90's coupes in particular (with a trunk, not the hatches).

I know the front end is ugly, but there is plenty of s13/s14/s15 conversions possible. I really love the old school rear end of the s13's though.....

So is there an online index of weights? I'm thinking of 5-lug, big brakes, and of course a nice suspension so I can go drifting.....

Anyone wanna help me get started with the lightest chassis possible?

-tia

[Toahk]

11 second drifter eh? just build your honda, the lightest of the 240's is the 89-90 base model hatch and coupes, around 2500+ - or so lbs.

[AREITU]

Fast on the drag strip and drifting don't mix. Pick one or the other. And he's right, the '89-'90 base coupes are indeed the lightest. Coupes are stiffer than the hatchbacks.

[toki]

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

DUR DUR PROJECT S13 DRAG DRIFT CAR VROOM VROOM

if you want an 11sec drift car, I hope you 20K laying around your basement.

kbye

[toki]

that's a mediocre drift car too. not to get your hopes up.

[Black R]

Wow, what an informative post by toki.

How about something actually informative in this "tech" forum?

An 11 second car isn't good to drift? Why not? I happen to have a couple friends with s13's - one has a hatch and one has a coupe. Both have sr20det's, and one of them runs 11's. The other prefers the motor at near stock boost levels and drift. To each his own, but I don't see a conflict here. If there is, then please explain it.

All of the reading I've done on the subject has stated pretty bluntly that you need lots of power, and a good lsd. 400whp isn't acceptable to you guys?

Let's hear what groundbreaking you've done on the subject mr toki. You running 11's? You the local drift king? Or is that carbon fiber shift knob all show?

[SingleCamSam]

Drag and drift are two very different things man. You'd need to readjust your suspension every time you switched between them. And running an 11sec quarter mile is not easy. I would suggest making more realistic goals unless you have a budget that matches HKS'. How about a responsive 13-second drift car that can run the 1320's when it wants?

[stillmatic]

240s aren't as light as people think to be.

http://auto.consumerguide.com/...8.htm

I was shocked when I found out that my brother's 01 Celica GT-S fastback was lighter than my car. His car has a curb weight of 2425lbs while mine has 2730lbs plus 110lb audio and a 157lb driver.

[E Dogg]

theres a lot of fat that can be carved from a 240 if you know where to cut, i took least 100 extra lb from mine.

[TheDrumAndTheBass]

It's quiet easy to put the 240 on a weight loss diet. Here's a few things I've done. Removed A/C (This alone was probably about 50lbs), took out rear seats. removed AIV system. If your really concerned, take out all your stero equipment. Head unit, speakers, amp's if you have them. All these things alone may noe weigh much. But they do start to add up after awhile. If you wann go real hard core, get some lightweight racing buckets. May be uncomfertable as hell, but they serve their purpose.Ryan

[E Dogg]

I decided to leave rear seat and hatch cover in, but i also took all the tar sound deadening, and padding underneath the carpet, spare, jack, ac power steeeringThe hardest weight i have found to remove is the extra pounds on the driver.....

[Team503]

Your problem isn't power. You could easily make enough power off any engine combo to run 11s. Your problem is going to be traction.

If you really want to run 11s, you'll need a completely different suspension configuration than you'd want to drift. That's a HELL of a lot of tuning on coilovers, not to mention removing antiroll bars, etc. Too much effort.

Besides, any turbo four fast enough to run 11s has crap for response - HUGE LAG. On a drag car, that can be compensated for with staging and launch. On a drift car, you'll grip because you can't apply enough power to the wheels to mainting the drift while you're waiting on boost to hit.

My recommendation? Shoot for a car that's limited by turbo size - max out a smaller turbo around 350hp or so (which will get you low 13s, maybe high 12s). That way, you've got a responsive drifter that's still faster that 90% of what's on the road. And if you ever decide you want to go faster, just buy a bigger turbo and retune.

And don't forget - drift cars (that actually drift) get smashed up. A lot. Costs a lot of money to run 11s. You sure you want to smash that up?

[cosmo]

My recommendation? Shoot for a car that's limited by turbo size - max out a smaller turbo around 350hp or so (which will get you low 13s, maybe high 12s).

350hp in a 240 will run mid to low 12's. Maybe even very very high elevens with slicks and major strippage and one hell of a driver

[Team503]

Well, then. Mid to low 12s it is.

[Onizuka]

All of the reading I've done on the subject has stated pretty bluntly that you need lots of power, and a good lsd. 400whp isn't acceptable to you guys?

lol

all you need to drift is a stock 240sx, a crappy LSD and some spare tires.

[A_Rivers]

Hey Black R,

Welcome to NICO, I hope I can help you out some. From a lot of stuff I have read you don't really have to make gobbs of power to go drifting just a good LSD, a nice power band, and some big swinging cajones. On the wieght subject it really boils down to how much you want to strip out of your car. I like having a really light car but I also like carpet, power windows, other little items that keep my car from being really light. It's all a world of compromise. My 1991 SE model with power windows, doorlocks, mirrors, A/C, factory spoiler, removed plastic from inside trunk, and only front speakers (rears are removed and also factory amp). Weights in at 2,634 LBS wet without driver (140lbs). If you wan't to see a good example of a 12 second drifter and what it takes to get there here is a link to one. http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/http://www.sportcompactcarweb....ivia/http://www.sportcompactcarweb....ilvia

[bdawg46]

you probably coupld just buy 2 s13's and make one for drift and one for drag, i dunno, just a thought.....

[Onizuka]

Hey Black R,

Welcome to NICO, I hope I can help you out some. From a lot of stuff I have read you don't really have to make gobbs of power to go drifting just a good LSD, a nice power band, and some big swinging cajones. On the wieght subject it really boils down to how much you want to strip out of your car. I like having a really light car but I also like carpet, power windows, other little items that keep my car from being really light. It's all a world of compromise. My 1991 SE model with power windows, doorlocks, mirrors, A/C, factory spoiler, removed plastic from inside trunk, and only front speakers (rears are removed and also factory amp). Weights in at 1,634 LBS wet without driver (140lbs).

i have drifted and you dont need all sorts of special equipment, you dont need a super good new LSD, and you dont have to remove anything from your car. A junkyard LSD, a helmet and practis is all you need to do some sweet drifts.

Are you sure you didnt mean 2,634 lbs? becuase a 1,634lb 240sx the funniest think i have ever heard in my life. Unless your car has a tube chassie it is not that light. With a completely stripped interior, no dash, 1/4 tank of gas, carbon fiber doors, carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber hatch/trunk, carbon fiber front fenders, fiberglass bumpers, plexi-glass windows, removed power componenets, removed A/C, removed sterio equipment and light weight rims you would be lucky to even break the 2000lb barrier with the light weight 89-90 coupe (forget it with anything else).

[A_Rivers]

Are you sure you didnt mean 2,634 lbs?

Yes I mistyped there. If only my car weighed that much.

[DriftBandit]

Any way you look at it....less weight is the poor man's horsepower!

[240SX=fun4me!]

ummmmmmm.........

What's LSD? ?

[znoam]

LSD is a limited slip differential. It makes the back tires spin together at similar speeds. If you dont have a LSD and you do a burnout then you get those dumb one lined burnouts instead of seeing two beautiful lines of melted rubber . Ah, the best smell around.

[AzurE]

weld the spiders ! it will hook up with slicks at the dragstrip.....and you can steer the drift with the throttle ! :ylsuper

[Nismo_Freak]

And replace your tires every 3 days, and have the worse handling known to man.

Then your diff will break... fun for a few weeks.

[Nismo_Freak]

Your problem isn't power. You could easily make enough power off any engine combo to run 11s. Your problem is going to be traction.

If you really want to run 11s, you'll need a completely different suspension configuration than you'd want to drift. That's a HELL of a lot of tuning on coilovers, not to mention removing antiroll bars, etc. Too much effort.

He has a point... with a drifting setup (including alignment) you are gonna have entirely too stiff of a setup in the rear to induce oversteer. This supplies ample amounts of differential destroying wheelhop and no traction.

Sure coilovers are adjustable but one thing people fail to remember is that the valving is setup for a single purpose. People who say the only difference between the HE's and HA's is the spring rates and PBU's are uneducated to the way the dampening rates work in the actual coilovers. For example, HKS's drag suspension is going to be setup to give alot less rebound travel and more bound travel. This is to give the car excellent weight transfer so that the maximum traction can be achieved. This in turn makes the car understeer cause the rear suspension is soft. Drift suspension on the other hand is designed so that it has maximum rebound and minimum bound. This allows the car to easily oversteer, which is essentially drifting ( a controlled oversteer situation ).



Example of Tein HA Valving Rates

Besides, any turbo four fast enough to run 11s has crap for response - HUGE LAG. On a drag car, that can be compensated for with staging and launch. On a drift car, you'll grip because you can't apply enough power to the wheels to mainting the drift while you're waiting on boost to hit.

Lag is pretty much relative. Drifting is not based solely on power. In fact there is a video of a 132rwhp n/a KA drifting at a local meet in Houston. Drifting is instead about suspension setup (inclusive of tires) and driving ability. The majority of Japanese drift cars use primarily their suspension setups and skill as drivers to initiate and control the drifts. The power just adds on to help them control the drift for prolonged periods as drifting scrubs off speed (thats why you don't see Michael Schumacher doing it). More power is just a cover for a crappy setup... and too much power isn't controllable.

My recommendation? Shoot for a car that's limited by turbo size - max out a smaller turbo around 350hp or so (which will get you low 13s, maybe high 12s). That way, you've got a responsive drifter that's still faster that 90% of what's on the road. And if you ever decide you want to go faster, just buy a bigger turbo and retune.

My recommendations? Flow, get a turbo suited for ~400rwhp with dual ball bearings (GT-RS comes to mind). Then optimize exhaust flow to the turbine with a tubular exhaust manifold and full turbo back 3" exhaust (including the 02 housing). Weight, lightened flywheels, pulleys, etc. all help to decrease lag and increase response.