This is yet another problem with the war an Iraq. We can only lose if we defeat ourselves. This speaks volumes for why war should be left to those who wear a uniform, or at least, wore one honorably in the past.

Quote »COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- President Bush told the 2008 graduating class at the U.S. Air Force Academy on Wednesday that the "only way America could lose the war on terror is if we defeat ourselves."

1 of 2 Speaking on a cloudy day at Falcon Stadium, the president compared the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to America's earlier conflicts, particularly World War II.

"Our nation is once again contending with an ideology that seeks to sow anger, hatred and despair: the ideology of Islamic extremism," he said.

"In today's struggle, we are once again facing evil men who despise freedom and despise America and aim to subject millions to their violent rule.

"We assumed this obligation before," he said, referring to the rebuilding of Germany and Japan after World War II, a conflict that saw the loss of more than 400,000 American lives.

...The measure of success in war has changed, he said.

"In the past ... there were public surrenders, a signing ceremony on the deck of a battleship, victory parades in American cities. Today, when the war continues after the regime has fallen, the definition of success is more complicated."[/quote]I love the last line. ..."the definition of success is more complicated"... Let me translate: We win when we say we win, unless we defeat ourselves. I love this country, but I expect more out of those leading it.

Its true. How do you define winning in today's war?

It's simple, like I said in my other post that referenced the Iraq scandal, we have no clear cut objectives and no attainable goals. What we have is an arm chair Gov killing this Nations greatest asset...it's people. At what cost and for what reason?

We have already lost the war in Iraq...how can I say something so horrible? Because we went with the intention of removing WMDs from the Iraqi Gov. Huh...well they didn't have any did they. Yet here we are...installing a Gov that will simply never work. A political war waged under the guise of eradicating a threat.

When are we going to say enough war? Why is it we simply can't be happy unless we're invading another country and installing our beliefs and views? Can you imagine a time of peace? I can't...because we've been at war since I was HS. All of my adult life we have been at war with someone. Enough is friggin enough.

Whats the answer...?

It's time to come home.

WD

Agreed, we are trapped in Iraq in almost the same way we were trapped in Vietnam, politically speaking. How do we fight terrorism? Containment, only attacking during an imminent threat, not preemptively nor to install governments. The people of that country have to topple the current government and create a new one in order to be successful.

It all sounds good until the handwringers get nivolved.

The good old days of covert and subversive operations are gone - We can't even quietly remove a dictator from power anymore...

We need more snipers.

I'll not disagree wth that.