Wastegates?

Post by **SingleCamSam** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

I've got my turbo system pretty much planned out. I'll be using a T3/T04E 50 trim with a .63 A/R turbine and i want to make around 300-320hp. I could use some advice as to whether i should use an integral wastegate or get a 38mm unit from Tial? Thanks:)

Post by **ADAMHU** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

get the tial......whatever you do do not get the deltagate....

Post by **silviaone1** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

whats the problem with deltagates??

Post by **silviaNE** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

if you are on a budget, and find a nice turbo with internal wastegate then keep it like that. if you have money to spend and are anal retentive about boost spiking and want to make more hp in the future. also if yoyr manifold isnt setup for external, it will have to be moddified. and you will have to plumb the exhaust for it. more work and money. to me if you had the money you should do it. if you like noise you can plumb it back into the atmosphere. Also if you plumb it back into the exhaust, make sure you plum it back at least 12 inchs from the downpipe to prevent turbulance. i would recomend you try and plumb it back a little further then 12" i know i am anal retentive about that to. its also 5:30am i am allready at work and have nothing better to do. hope this helps you

Post by **95_240sx** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

LOL, got to pay for parts somehow

Rick

Post by **ADAMHU** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

my deltagate kept falling apart...i bought a tial and no problems.....

Post by **silviaNE** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

they quality versus cost on deltas to tial are uncomparable. Also the cost diference from the 35mm to the 35mm hp is worth it.

Post by **UltimaSE** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

I have heard of at least two cases where the deltagates stuck closed, now remember that's just from what I've heard, I have no first hand experience in those cases.

I have a tial, I have to agree about their quality, they are really quite beautiful. And I haven't had a problem yet.

UltimaSE

Post by **encasemyheart** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

How big of a wastegate are you all using? How much hp/boost will a tial 35mm support?

I'm thinking about the tial 38mm since it is only about $230-240 right now, and I was going to spend $210 on a 35mm. WOuld a 35mmHP be better than a 38mm?

Post by **ADAMHU** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

i would get the 38mm as i get boost creep on my 35mm....see boost chart...

Post by **encasemyheart** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

wow, thanks. I'll go 38mm.

Post by **matt0941** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

Interesting.

If a turbonetics manifold is T3/Deltagate (Meaning it has T3 flange and remote wastegate flange) will the tial bolt up to the deltagate space or does it need to be custom fabbed?

Post by **silviaNE** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

tial and delta both use the same bolt pattern, also a few other brands of older wastegates. either one will bolt right up. Changing a flange on a tubular manifold is not much work anyways. but either one will bolt on. I.E the revhard manifold

Post by **Mikel** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

i run a Innovative Turbo Progate on my Supra, no problems.

Post by **GirlRacerS14** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

Yeah, my stinking DeltaGate used to get stuck all the friggin time. Mechanic did something to it and it doesn't do it anymore but a Tial is on my shopping list.

GR

Post by **KApwr** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

You really shouldn't look at HP support to determine the size of wastegate to get. As a matter of fact, High HP/Boost applications really don't need a huge wastegate because the WG stays shut most of the time to maintain the high boost levels. If you plan to stay at low boost most of the time where the wastegate is open to maintain the low boost levels and if the VE of your engine is high enough to cause boost creep then go w/ a bigger size WG. A 38mm Tial should be all you need though. I plan (cross fingers) to have over 500whp and plan on using the Tial 38mm. Deltagate=junk. Go with Tial or Turbosmart.

Post by **Mikel** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

KApwr wrote:You really shouldn't look at HP support to determine the size of wastegate to get. As a matter of fact, High HP/Boost applications really don't need a huge wastegate because the WG stays shut most of the time to maintain the high boost levels. If you plan to stay at low boost most of the time where the wastegate is open to maintain the low boost levels and if the VE of your engine is high enough to cause boost creep then go w/ a bigger size WG. A 38mm Tial should be all you need though. I plan (cross fingers) to have over 500whp and plan on using the Tial 38mm. Deltagate=junk. Go with Tial or Turbosmart.

Er, no.

High HP/Boost applications have problems with wastegate control. Say you have a 700hp car and a 200hp car, both with a 35mm Tial. The 700hp car is trying to put exponentially more air through the same hole, if the wastegate won't flow enough to control turbine speed, you will get boost creep.

Post by **KApwr** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

Mikel wrote:Er, no.

High HP/Boost applications have problems with wastegate control. Say you have a 700hp car and a 200hp car, both with a 35mm Tial. The 700hp car is trying to put exponentially more air through the same hole, if the wastegate won't flow enough to control turbine speed, you will get boost creep.

Er, no! You better learn how a wastegate works again. Here, read up my friend!! http://www.tialsport.com/technical.htm It's under Flow Capacity. Most likely the 700hp car you refer to will need high boost to maintain that sort of HP. That equals the WG has to be shut most of the time, so really flow isn't crucial unless there is too much backpressure in the exhaust but that's another story. So again, look at the whole picture and not just, Oh i plan on having xxxhp. Can this WG handle it.

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

The high hp engine will also be using a huge turbine with a large AR section to help discharge gasses. So the wastegate isn't as much of a concern as a properly sized AR section for backpressure purposes.

WD

Post by **Mikel** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

KApwr wrote:Er, no! You better learn how a wastegate works again. Here, read up my friend!! http://www.tialsport.com/technical.htm It's under Flow Capacity. Most likely the 700hp car you refer to will need high boost to maintain that sort of HP. That equals the WG has to be shut most of the time, so really flow isn't crucial unless there is too much backpressure in the exhaust but that's another story. So again, look at the whole picture and not just, Oh i plan on having xxxhp. Can this WG handle it.

Interesting, I've always been taught the opposite. Learn something new everyday

Post by **KApwr** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

WD, thanks for explaining the backpressure effects on wastegate flow.

Mikel, You're not the only one that believes this cuz it seems to be a common misconception about WG sizing. Yep, I'm learning stuff everyday also. That's what these boards are for. Information is power or correct information that is

Post by **silviaNE** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:16 am

well said.

Wastegates?

Wastegates?

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