Ok I have been looking and reading and reading and looking....No definitive answer as of yet. Hoping you guys can tell me point blank.
I have been curious about wastegates. So I searched and came up with different things. This will be my first turbo project so I wanna learn.
This is what I ahve learned or read...External Loud but efficient and safer...more complicated
Internal...BOOST CREEP
All in all I dont know exactly what turbo yet....money is a concern.....
Right now I would like to see 280 max HP...down the road more
Right now I still have to check compression on my motor to make sure it is strong enough for what I want.
Later I am gonna do an AMS engine buildup
What should I do to get the power I want now and still have a setup worthy of more power down the line? All suggestions welcome
Wastegate concerns...I searched!
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Diggity240sx
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coolbone28
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You have some things mixed up.
Internal= on the turbo..usually with preset non adjustable spring.
External=WG flange on the manifold that takes an after market WG. Its only loud if you do not recirculate the dump tube back into the exhaust. Althogh it isn't recirc. correctly if CAN cause boost creep.
Modified by coolbone28 at 11:13 PM 4/12/2007
Internal= on the turbo..usually with preset non adjustable spring.
External=WG flange on the manifold that takes an after market WG. Its only loud if you do not recirculate the dump tube back into the exhaust. Althogh it isn't recirc. correctly if CAN cause boost creep.
Modified by coolbone28 at 11:13 PM 4/12/2007
Re: Wastegate concerns...I searched! (Diggity240sx)
First of all if your looking to make 280 hp your going to probably need a t3 exhaust sided turbo. That being said, the most efficient turbo for our cars is a t3/t40e.
If you cheap out on the manifold you will regret it later. If your looking for a cheaper rout, i would have to recommend JGS's log style manifold. It tends to have less boost lag than a tubular style, although will not put down the torque than one.
38mm waste-gate is typical for this hp, Tial makes the most popular one and it works like a charm.
There are two main causes of boost creep. To big of a turbo for to small of a wastegate is one. The other main one is that your wastegate tubing/return isnt set up correctly. If you have a cheap manifold and the pipe is to small, or has to many bends is the more common cause.
An external wastegate IMO is much simpler than an internal. There is an actuator that has to sit outside the turbo with a rod that opens a flap inside the turbo that lets exhaust bypass the wheel. Its run by vacuum, and any wastegate, internal or external can be controlled with any type of boost controller. It only allows the wastegate to receive vacuum at a certain level of boost.
An external wastegate is connected to a flanged tube the runs strait off your manifold. Once it receives the pre-set level of vacuum a plunger raises allowing exhaust to pass into either the air or back into the exhaust behind the turbo.
If your waste-gate has a 7 psi spring, you can adjust it to be higher than 7psi, but no lower. External wastegates typically have a wide variety of springs available for different setups.
If you cheap out on the manifold you will regret it later. If your looking for a cheaper rout, i would have to recommend JGS's log style manifold. It tends to have less boost lag than a tubular style, although will not put down the torque than one.
38mm waste-gate is typical for this hp, Tial makes the most popular one and it works like a charm.
There are two main causes of boost creep. To big of a turbo for to small of a wastegate is one. The other main one is that your wastegate tubing/return isnt set up correctly. If you have a cheap manifold and the pipe is to small, or has to many bends is the more common cause.
An external wastegate IMO is much simpler than an internal. There is an actuator that has to sit outside the turbo with a rod that opens a flap inside the turbo that lets exhaust bypass the wheel. Its run by vacuum, and any wastegate, internal or external can be controlled with any type of boost controller. It only allows the wastegate to receive vacuum at a certain level of boost.
An external wastegate is connected to a flanged tube the runs strait off your manifold. Once it receives the pre-set level of vacuum a plunger raises allowing exhaust to pass into either the air or back into the exhaust behind the turbo.
If your waste-gate has a 7 psi spring, you can adjust it to be higher than 7psi, but no lower. External wastegates typically have a wide variety of springs available for different setups.
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Diggity240sx
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Re: (coolbone28)
Yea I totally get the setups I also understand there are some adjustable internally gated turbos but cant go really higher than 14-15 psi. I appreciate your comment though. I am really just trying to justify the price of the externally gated turbo and different or modified manifold. I have read alot and eventually I would like to get a complete AMS setup...I think they are designed really well. I have been following Ivan's page quite alot. its around 3500 just for the build parts, intake and exhaust manifolds.coolbone28 wrote:You have some things mixed up.
Internal= on the turbo..usually with preset non adjustable spring.
External=WG flange on the manifold that takes an after market WG. Its only loud if you do not recirculate the dump tube back into the exhaust. Althogh it isn't recirc. correctly if CAN cause boost creep.
Modified by coolbone28 at 11:13 PM 4/12/2007
The other thing I am unsure of maybe you guys can help point me in the right direction. I would like to analyze different turbos on different setups. A lot of examples because I want what I want. I dont wanna buy 3 turbos 2 manifolds and so on and so forth. I really want to only have to buy what will last and what is proven to be reliable. My car is far from a daily driver. It is my toy. I am a hands on person and so far since I have owned my car I have done alot of maintenance work plus all the body work and painting. I have bought all the tools to tear down and rebuild the entire car except for the lift and engine stand. I do all my own mechanics and some for others.
Anyways back to the examples. I have a computer dyno that I have yet to play with and I can change turbos cams DOHC SOHC bore stroke compression PSI. I would like to know if there is an existing thread where I might find some real life examples to base my build off of. I tried searching and came up empty. Most of the shops in my state look at me like I am an idiot when I say KA-t. They all want the SR in 240's. I want to spank SR's...USDM way. So there is no local help besides NICO. I love NICO its awesome.
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Diggity240sx
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Re: (Diggity240sx)
When I am all done I would like to know every detail....Like if I put this turbo on to get 280whp, then I would like it to be at a fairly low PSI so when I do the build I dont have to buy a bigger turbo and more of other stuff to increase HP. I was trying to find a list of turbos and max HP but I only find Garrets site helpfull in this aspect....that and I dont really have a way to calculate different wheel sizes. I like to research and not blow my money. Whether it be all on my own or others trials.
THANKS GUYS
THANKS GUYS
Re: (Diggity240sx)
A
Boost creep is caused just as that guy above described it. But if your wastegate is set at a pretty high amount, like 14+ PSI, you're also less likely to get creep because most of your exhaust is being used to spin the turbine anyway! I have a boost designs manifold, and I was a little weary about the 38mm Tial Knockoff (exactly the same, parts interchangable) being big enough, but I am going to be running 15 psi and the dump goes into my exhaust so... should be all good (install in 2 weeks)
A T3/T04E .63AR at 7-10 psi should get you where you want to be. 280 whp. And it'll go up to around 400 pretty well.Diggity240sx wrote:When I am all done I would like to know every detail....Like if I put this turbo on to get 280whp, then I would like it to be at a fairly low PSI so when I do the build I dont have to buy a bigger turbo and more of other stuff to increase HP. I was trying to find a list of turbos and max HP but I only find Garrets site helpfull in this aspect....that and I dont really have a way to calculate different wheel sizes. I like to research and not blow my money. Whether it be all on my own or others trials.
THANKS GUYS
Boost creep is caused just as that guy above described it. But if your wastegate is set at a pretty high amount, like 14+ PSI, you're also less likely to get creep because most of your exhaust is being used to spin the turbine anyway! I have a boost designs manifold, and I was a little weary about the 38mm Tial Knockoff (exactly the same, parts interchangable) being big enough, but I am going to be running 15 psi and the dump goes into my exhaust so... should be all good (install in 2 weeks)
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Diggity240sx
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:01 pm
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Re: (16-bit)
GL with all that. So does anyone know where to find some good info on different setups for the ka. I dont wanna push the turbo hard I want to put down as little as I can as far as boost to establish my goal so that when I do the build I can just turn up the boost so to speak. I know there is alot more involved but I dont wanna have to buy a bunch after I do a build on the motor I want to use my existing setup to create some good numbers. Or am I just wanting too much from all of this. Can it be done? Say I were to do 300 low end and 500 high end and I dont wanna push my turbo past 17psi to get it. Would you still recomend the t3t40e?
Re: (Diggity240sx)
The first thing is to realize that speed costs money. What kind of budget are you working with?
As for selecting a good turbo, you can learn to read compressor maps that will show you what each can do. Generally, a T3 Super 60 is good to about 290HP. If you want to ever go past that you should be looking at the T04E 50 trim good to over 400HP. Either should have a .63A/R exhaust and a stage 3 exhaust wheel is prefferable.
As for the WG, I would go with an external Tial. Some guys have done the knock off Tials with genuine Tial springs.
I also think an internal might work fairly well if you spend some time with a Dremmel grinding out the hole a bit and you fabricate a divorced dump tube behind the WG flapper. But by the time you do all that you could just buy the knock off Tial.
Anyway there are sooo many threads that answer these questions - try a bit more searching.
As for selecting a good turbo, you can learn to read compressor maps that will show you what each can do. Generally, a T3 Super 60 is good to about 290HP. If you want to ever go past that you should be looking at the T04E 50 trim good to over 400HP. Either should have a .63A/R exhaust and a stage 3 exhaust wheel is prefferable.
As for the WG, I would go with an external Tial. Some guys have done the knock off Tials with genuine Tial springs.
I also think an internal might work fairly well if you spend some time with a Dremmel grinding out the hole a bit and you fabricate a divorced dump tube behind the WG flapper. But by the time you do all that you could just buy the knock off Tial.
Anyway there are sooo many threads that answer these questions - try a bit more searching.
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Diggity240sx
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:01 pm
- Car: 93 240sx SE, 95 Chevy S10 daily driver
Re: (Edub1)
Ok I will try a bit more searching on how to read the maps..Thanks alot guys.