Warped '06 SE-R Rotors... AGAIN!!!

[woketman]

Hey folks, I have an '06 SE-R that I am in love with, but I am warping the rotors. I have about 45K miles on her. At about 37K, I took the front rotors to Pep Boys and had them turned. That solved my problem for a while, but they are getting warped again.

WHY??? I am not (at least not conciously) trying to stop HARD from 120 mph into a puddle of water! I drive aggressively, but that is why I bought an SE-R, cause its fun!

I assume it is only the front again, but I won't really know till I turn them. Questions: how many times can they usually be turned before there ain't enough meat left? Is there a FAR MORE warp resistant after-market alternative (hopefully an afordable one)?

Thanks.

[LongBeachCoupe]

I dont know what "turning" a rotor is... is that the same thing as machining them?

If so, i think you can do it once... MAYBE twice (but i dont think so) before you have to replace them.

[Kouks]

You can definitely turn them more than twice. The problem is knowing exactly how much. You are supposed to mic them (with a micrometer) for minimum thickness to see if you can machine them again. thats the only way to know.

BTW, one reason your rotors could be warping could be coming from the bearings in the hub being loose, having play etc. that would causing excessive warpage when your driving down the road/braking and stuff like that.
Modified by Kouks at 1:59 PM 2/6/2009

[woketman]

Yes, "turning" is the same as machining them.

I know that rotors that I have had turned in the past had the min thickness stamped on them somewhere and the shop mics them before turning. But I just had no idea about how many turnings you can get on a stock rotor.

So are there any aftermarket suggestions that will be more warp-proof?

I shall check the bearings. Thanks.

[Kouks]

First off, the number of times a rotor can be turned depends on how much material has to be removed to make them straight again. (no thickness variation)Also, how much material is taken off of them each time the tech operates the brake lathe. No such thing as rotors that are more warp proof than others. Faulty calipers/hub bearing assemblies/ torque members(technical name for the piece of metal that bolts onto your hub/spindle that holds the brake pads), high speed braking on brakes unworthy of such a job, or even sudden hard braking..i.e. aggressive braking can all have some impact on brake thickness variation.

Kouks(FL Nissan Tech)

[Kouks]

Hey folks, I have an '06 SE-R that I am in love with, but I am warping the rotors. WHY??? I drive aggressively, but that is why I bought an SE-R, cause its fun!

haha, i made you answer your own question. Unless you have a faulty part, that is your answer.

[woketman]

Well, I am ordering some after market rotors and pads. We'll see if it is crappy Nissan rotors or if these do it too!

I'm betting these will be more warp resistant than the Nissan rotors.

[Kouks]

Well, I am ordering some after market rotors and pads. We'll see if it is crappy Nissan rotors or if these do it too!

I'm betting these will be more warp resistant than the Nissan rotors.

Youd be a fool to think that. What are you ordering? What about a rotor makes it more"warp resistant"?

Brakes work by taking two surfaces(well 4 to be precise, but for the sake of arguement, the tire and the road dont count)and push them(the rotor and the pad) together causing friction which slows your vehicle down to a speed you desire. Hard aggressive driving will obviously wear them down sooner than someone who is smooth on accel and decel.

Please enlighten me about these new more warp resistant stock replacement brakes.

[woketman]

You are apparently a Nissan grunt spouting the Nissan party line and have not bothered to think this through in a thourough, analytical manner. I shall help you.

First the obvious: the after markets may be thicker (not overall, but each disk with a smaller gap). They may be slotted for better cooling.

Now the more esoteric: They may have a higher modulus of elasticity. They may have a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. They may have a modulus of elasticity to temperature curve that is flatter, thereby remaining stiffer longer at elevated temps. They may have a higher coefficient of thermal conductance.

So you see, I cannot say for sure, but I DO KNOW one thing. Everyone around here and the other forums seems to agree on one this: the Nissan rotors ARE crap! The only guy that I have seen that does not think that is a Nissan employee. Therefore I DO KNOW that I certainly cannot be worse off with the new ones I am ordering.

I'll let ya know in a year or so!!!

[Kouks]

You are apparently a Nissan grunt spouting the Nissan party line and have not bothered to think this through in a thourough, analytical manner. I shall help you.

First the obvious: the after markets may be thicker (not overall, but each disk with a smaller gap). They may be slotted for better cooling.

Now the more esoteric: They may have a higher modulus of elasticity. They may have a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. They may have a modulus of elasticity to temperature curve that is flatter, thereby remaining stiffer longer at elevated temps. They may have a higher coefficient of thermal conductance.

So you see, I cannot say for sure, but I DO KNOW one thing. Everyone around here and the other forums seems to agree on one this: the Nissan rotors ARE crap! The only guy that I have seen that does not think that is a Nissan employee. Therefore I DO KNOW that I certainly cannot be worse off with the new ones I am ordering.

I'll let ya know in a year or so!!!

Dont try to talk down to me with words that you cant define without using a dictionary. Haha, you crack me up. I have never touted the nissan flag in such a way. They may be this in scientific terms, they may be that, haha you may have no evidence.

Do you have any proof the nissan rotors are crap? Do you have any factual evidence as to why your no name brand replacement rotors "may" be better. Tell me why, not why they may be better.

First, being thicker with a smaller center vain will actually decrease the rotors cooling effectiveness. (Compare front to rear brakes) Most cars will come from the factory and even replacements follow the vented front rotor with a solid rear set up. You would not want this.

Slotting does offer some benefits with cooling effectiveness for those who truly use their brakes to the point where heat is a problem. Auto-x is one example. Stock rotors may heat up to a point where the coefficient of friction drastically falls with the increase in temperature. Thus loosing pedal feel, glazing the pads, and never truly having the same bite as they should. Some aftermarket pads are made to operate in a heat range more conducent of such activities. Stock ones are not. They are designed to work well in low heat applications and provide QUIET usage for a long period of time. aftermarket ones do not care about this.

If you use your brakes in such a manner, auto-x and driving around town with a heavy foot, there is a better solution than stock. I do not believe however that a stock replacement rotor in this particular situation will avoid warping(excessive thickness variation) any better than a new stock one would. It would simply operate more efficiently in a higher heat range when equipped with pads of the same caliber.

[woketman]

First of all, you are the one that starts by talking down to others. You have clearly demonstrated that. I simply provided some of your own medicine.

And I don't require a dictionary as I work with these types of materials every single day. What's more, I actually understand the dynamics of the situation that we are discussing. If I can handle analysis of the MPS components on the Space Shuttle system, I can handle Altima front brakes (and I am only talking about the front, I don't think I said that before).

My proof of said Nissan rotor crappiness comes directly from three sources: A) my experience, and B) the experiences of many others on this forum and other forums, and C) a dude at work with the very same experience. Funny how in the large population of Nissan pilots, you are the ONLY, sole person who thinks they are great rotors. Hmmmmm.....

As stated, I told you several reason why they MAY be better (the after market ones on the way). I will not know for sure until I put some miles on them. But I already know (see above) that the stock are crap. So about the worst I can do is end up in the same situation that I am in. But, by the testimonies of several here in the forums, I have a high likelyhood of solving my issue.

When you made the statement: "being thicker with a smaller center vain will actually decrease the rotors cooling effectiveness" you are exposing your limited knowledge. You are assuming everything else is the same. However perhaps the vanes that centifugally accelerate the air are at a higher angle of attack increasing air velocity and therefore convective cooling. Perhaps the material has a higher capacity for thermal conductance. Higher modulus. Higher Fty of the material. And so forth and so on.

But like I said, the odds of me ending up worse off are infinitesimal. I like my odds!

[Kouks]

Funny how in the large population of Nissan pilots, you are the ONLY, sole person who thinks they are great rotors. Hmmmmm.....

please show me once where I said that.

enough argueing and bickering over who knows more. You came on here asking questions? Obviously something you didnt know or you wouldnt have asked. yet, now you come on here throwing outlandish statements. it provides no value to the furtherment of the forum. Anyways,....

What kind of rotors did you get and pads? Just curious as to the answer to your problematic brakes.

[xeene]

check out rotora rotors. i think they're the best bang for buck when it comes to rotors.

[dangeris]

Here we go again...a "you started it first" thread. First off..

...First the obvious: the after markets may be thicker (not overall, but each disk with a smaller gap). They may be slotted for better cooling.

Now the more esoteric: They may have a higher modulus of elasticity. They may have a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. They may have a modulus of elasticity to temperature curve that is flatter, thereby remaining stiffer longer at elevated temps. They may have a higher coefficient of thermal conductance.

I hate to say this woketman but how do you know that these aftermarket rotors are better than the OEM ones? Who is the manufacturer? What's the specifications / tolerances of the rotors. I know the reason why you bought an SE-R is because they're fun to drive but maybe you're driving it a little to hard for the OEM rotors to take. Are you coming to a complete stop after aggressively braking or are you going high speeds on a straight and in a turn do a little trail braking?

I have the AP Racing BBK installed on my coupe and the instructions, AP racing states do not aggressively Brake and come to a complete stop. Doing so will take the heat that was generated while braking and concentrate it in one particular area of the rotor thereby causing the increase of warping.

I'm not defending Kouks but if he said he's a Nissan tech then I'm sure he knows his stuff. I would take the word of someone that works with Nissan day in and day out before I take the advice of a mechanic that only works on domestic cars.. I'm sure he didn't mean to come off cocky to you but I know from experience when you know you're $hit about something sometimes there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance

Hope you find the root cause of your rotors warping prematurely. I know it's frustrating.

[woketman]

I understand your viewpoint completely Dangeris. As stated, I do not know that these aftermarkets will be better, but I find it VERY unlikely that they will be worse, so I'll try my luck.

Thanks for the assistance, it is appreciated.