Wanting to turbo the KA, need advise

[s13sucksalot]

Okay, so I've decided to turbo the stock KA24de. I'm starting to get money thogether to buy parts and i was wondering what some of the more seasoned veterans of the turbo world would recommend. I'm wanting something that is usable as a daily driver, but capable of hauling balls if it has to. I don't know what kind of turbo to find, (t3, t3/t4, t25) or how many PSI of boost to run. I don't want to have to go to the trouble of replacing the fuel injectors or fuel pump (although i think i may have to anyway, that's another forum). Any advise on what to buy for a sold and reliable turbo set-up would be greatly appreciated.

[Jookmasta]

use a t3/t4 and nine psi is nice for a dd. there is no way around not upgrading ur injectors and fuel pump. u have to do it! last but not least tune tune tune tune. ur tuning will be the key to how long ur engine will last.

BTW, as for which trim and what not, thats all really individualistic as some people have different definitions as to how much lag is livable.......

[s13sucksalot]

Well, as far as parts go, I've got a T25 out of a 96ish Eclipse GSX at my disposal running 7 PSI. I'm kinda wanting this to be my cap b/c i can't get a solid idea of how many PSI to run before i start endagering my internals. Any comments?

[Jookmasta]

there are people running near 20 psi on stock internals. our piston ringlands are the concern, but then again, without proper tuning, everything is a concern

[s13sucksalot]

well, here's what i've got so far. I've got a T25 that came OEM on a GSX eclipse running 7 PSI. I just ordered a monifold with downpipe. so now all i need is an intercooler, and a LOT of work done.... Any other suggestions?

[D1 guy]

heres a suggestion. I know that Ill get condemned for saying this, but you could always go with an fmu and keep your stock injectors. Its a bad form of tuning, but it works (plus you dont have to tune an safc). I would still replace the fuel pump. currently im running an fmu with an hks fuel pump. This is just to get me by until I can get to a dyno. It runs around 8-9psi just fine. It doesnt bog, back fire, etc. Runs great. Just so you know though im just using this setup until I can get to a dyno to tune with my safc and 370cc injectors.

[DammitBobby]

heres a suggestion. I know that Ill get condemned for saying this, but you could always go with an fmu and keep your stock injectors. Its a bad form of tuning, but it works (plus you dont have to tune an safc). I would still replace the fuel pump. currently im running an fmu with an hks fuel pump. This is just to get me by until I can get to a dyno. It runs around 8-9psi just fine. It doesnt bog, back fire, etc. Runs great. Just so you know though im just using this setup until I can get to a dyno to tune with my safc and 370cc injectors.

Interesting, I have a FMU running 10psi no problems. According to the Blake at Walker Dyno he said my fuel curve looked good!! Interesting to see if you can get anymore hp from going to 370 and safc. You need to dyno before and after. I am not going to waste my money on trying to get a few more hp I plan on going straight to StageII with Enthalpy tune. Easy plug and play. I am with D1 guy about replacing the fuel pump. Go the easy route first then try going the harder route.

[s13sucksalot]

allright, time for my DA moment of the day.... What's a FMU (fuel managment unit?...), where can i find them, and how much are they? Keep in mind, i'm trying to keep the price low on this (turbo was free, manifold and downpipe for $300... looking for the same on an intercooler)

[DammitBobby]

boostdesigns.com sponsor of NICO!!

[kapower06]

im kind of in the same boat... I have almost everythign nessecary to turbo my car except down pipe, and i/c piping. Im about to purchase a new fuel pump. and was wondering what ratio rrfpr (rising rate fuel press. regualtor) to go with. I will be using a t3 super 60 turbo and running 5-7 pounds of boost. any info is great...

[WDRacing]

I'd use a 8/1 or 10/1 FMU disk. 12/1 is just to rich.

Nothing wrong with running a FMU either. Real easy and they work well.

[s13sucksalot]

allight, from what i've read, the FMU uses some sort of billows or something of that nature to raise the rate of fuel flow based on the amount of boost being produced. is this correct? if yes, can i have a more detailed expanation and an explination of why this is nessasary (spelling?). If, no: how does it work?

[ILikeMy240sx]

First of all FMU is also referred as Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator. It is widely used both in turbocharging and supercharing world.

It uses a disk inside the unit to raise fuel pressure as a function of boost pressure. For example, 12:1 FMU(RRFPR) will raise 12 psi of fuel pressure for each additional boost pressure it sees.

When you run a turbo you need some way to provide more fuel. Stock fuel system w.o any sort of management will not be enough for turbo applications. FMU provvides more fuel to the engine by raising the fuel pressure (more pressure more mass flow). An aftermarket fuel pump to go with FMU is HIGHLY recommended because stock pump will not be able to handle the increase in fuel pressure.

Some people think FMU is not a good way to tune they call it a "bandage" solution if you will however many people seem to use it alot and like it. Its all up to you IMO...

Hope this helped

[s13sucksalot]

yeah, this really helped. the only problem is that my dad seems to think that with enough blockage (or something like that) that the factory fuel pump can produce up to 90 PSI. Does the FMU act as a unit to make the pump work harder or something? i'm still unclear. by the way, i like your signiture. i found out about that one the hard way....

[ILikeMy240sx]

Im not quite sure what your dad means by a blockage... I think its a common misconception to think that a "nozzle" kind of device increases pressure. For example when you put your finger over your garden hose. It increases the exit velocity of mass flow but does not increase but rather decrease pressure because less mass is flowing.

I do not have a technical knowledge on exactly how FMUs work but I guess in a way FMU increases the fuel pressure and making the fuel pump work harder hence the need for an aftermarket unit such as Denso or Walboro

[s13sucksalot]

yeah, that's what i figured. eh, i think my fuel pump is on the outs anyhow. Do you know if you have to drop the tank to get to it, or can it be pulled/replaced through that acess panel under the rear "seat"?

[Jookmasta]

u dont have to drop the tank, it can be accessed from the panel underneath the cardboard in the trunk.........

[DammitBobby]

The FMU is placed on the return line to the fuel tank. It operates on a psi actuated device. It basically starts closing the return line as the psi increases. Easy way to observe this is to have an mechanical fuel gauge installed on the pressure line. Then take a handy dandy vice grip and start clamping down on the return line. You will notice that the fuel pressure gauge will start to increase.

[DRIFTEADOR]

^ so basically the "blockage" youre talking about is exactly what the fmu does.

however flow decreases as pressure increases:

so even with a aftermarket pump, 10 psi on a 12:1 disc just wont be possible. not to mention the strain on the rest of the fuel system at 120psi...

[s13sucksalot]

So, since i'm only giong to be running 7 psi, is this chart showing me, with a walbro fuel pump, and factory injectors, i can do just fine?

[DammitBobby]

I am doing it at 10psi with FMU!

[Craving4Boost]

what turbo are u running 10psi? T3?

[DammitBobby]

T3/T4

[crzycav86]

So, since i'm only giong to be running 7 psi, is this chart showing me, with a walbro fuel pump, and factory injectors, i can do just fine?

No. For fuel, you need AT LEAST an upgraded fuel pump and rrfpr.

[Jookmasta]

[s13sucksalot]

Quick update: the manifold and dump valve got here... they don't fit. Don't listen to some eclpse owners giving you a turbo and telling you it's a t-25. ALL LIES!!! anyhow, now i'm looking for a decently priced turbo that will fit. Anyone have one that they might be willing to trade for a T3 (maybe T3/T4, i don't know)? If not, where can i find one?