want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Discuss the RB20, RB25 and RB26 series engines.
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Carl H
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want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Sun May 05, 2013 6:26 pm

just gonna leave this here for a sec...details to come.
Image

for real.
an actual 6 speed for these motors to come, i'll have details for everyone that is interested very shortly.


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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby bmxarmy » Sun May 05, 2013 8:33 pm

WOOOOOOOOOOO

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby RRRRB » Sun May 05, 2013 8:58 pm

I've always wondered why someone hasn't mated a Z33 trans to an RB.. well done! cant wait to hear the details

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby TECHLINE08 » Mon May 06, 2013 8:35 am

yay, cant wait for the details

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Yellow4g63 » Mon May 06, 2013 5:51 pm

Nice looks interesting.+

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby 240z4u » Tue May 07, 2013 6:08 am

I've got to give you credit for posting the only interesting thing on this forum in about a year.

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chad b.
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby chad b. » Mon May 13, 2013 10:12 am

Bring it.

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Mon May 13, 2013 7:26 pm

well I won't leave you guys hanging forever...so I'll give you guys a bit of info on this adapter.
the adapter has actually been developed by JWT but they do not have any real world testing on the unit so it has been somewhat outsourced to us (MA-Motorsports) as we have the means and time to do so.
the trans in my car is on its way out the door with failing bearings and worn out syncros so I am in need of a new trans for my car anyways; I've got a 25 trans on the shelf but I figured I'd try the adapter/z33 setup and see how it works.
two birds/one stone mentality here, new gearbox for the car and also test the adapter for our friend clark at jwt...

the z33 trans is a pretty good gear box, with the exception of the earlier units having syncro issues they are capable of holding 800+whp and are easy to drive and can take abuse...makes them ideal units for people pushing more power than stock and the gearing is rather favorable with it being a close ratio six speed with a single overdrive.

this adapter plate is a little 'funny' in respects that the bellhousing is actually cut off and the adapter bolts to the throw out bearing face on the trans casing replacing it completely.
what this now allows you to do is to bolt ANY nissan automatic bell housing to the transmission and convert it to the 6 speed gear box...so any sr/ka/rb/vh/vg motor can be utilized assuming that there is an auto bell available.
now rb bellhousings are tough to find but we will be testing this with the ka auto bell as dimensions for the ka and rb are close to workable and the critical dimensions for the flywheel are the same between the motors with the major difference being how the flywheel is located on the motor's crank.

I'll be using one of the prototype flywheels for my setup and it is actually compatible with both the ka and rb cranks, its a brilliant piece with dual bolt pattern and dowel alignments for both clutch styles...but if you're gonna use this on the ka, you'll want to go ahead and use the z32 na or z33 clutch for increased power capacity.
I'll also be using one of JWT's upgraded clutch covers and their more aggressive cerametalic disc for testing.

Image

the major shortcoming of this gear box is the input shaft, its been moved back on the shaft almost 15mm compared to the shafts that nissan has been using quite literally for the past 30 years.
this is to accommodate the dual mass flywheel that nissan decided to use on the z33, why? who knows but they did.
the flywheel line that jwt has developed looks very similar to the z33 stock flywheel but with the legacy crank bolt patterns, this effectively spaces the clutch disc out to where nissan intended it to sit.
if you already have a clutch and flywheel setup, don't worry, we're also working on a spacer setup for the slave so you can use your existing setup.
the flywheel is nice if you've got an automatic motor set (or even an old worn out flywheel/clutch) and have to buy a flywheel anyways, and weighing in at 14lbs these are nice units that have replaceable friction surfaces should you wear them out.

Image

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Image

more updates to come.
have to reassemble my transmission and take some measurements for shifter placement so I can modify the shifter assembly.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Yellow4g63 » Mon May 13, 2013 8:00 pm

whats the plan for the spedo? ABS sensor with a converter?

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Tue May 14, 2013 6:00 am

j30 final for two reasons: 1) 3.91 is close to the 3.86 final of the z33 so the gearing spread will be pretty decent with a slight shortening of gears, 2) abs ring in the snout for speed pickup.
if you already have a s14/s13 with abs then you'd need to piggyback off the signal to a signal converter to drive the speedo else you'll have to install either a different rear end or a 'universal' speedometer...
I also wanted to drop down from the r33 4.36 to the lower gear as while the acceleration was killer it would make the 6 speed gears too short for my tastes.
Reducing crusing rpm was also an issue with the 4.36, at 65 the motor was turning 3k...j30 its down to around 2600-2700.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby placham » Wed May 15, 2013 3:03 pm

Sweet baby Jesus,,,Z33 trani, looks like their about to jump in price and get hit with "drift tax" soon,,,, what about Q45 diff that uses 2 sensors on axle output flanges(think that can be used too right Carl) , seems both my cars will be running Q45 diffs. :mike :mike :mike :mike waiting for more updates this is interesting.

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Wed May 15, 2013 5:07 pm

should be good to go to use the q diffs, they have snout sensors as well...unless you have a later model which i think has 4 channel abs.
should also work lol...if you're interested start tracking down an rb auto bell housing.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby placham » Wed May 15, 2013 6:01 pm

Well Carl , Im about to tackle AWD in my S14 that I brought back from the dead. I know and have been told by friends around that AWD is stupid and a waste of time to even attempt. With that said if my plan hits a brick wall then I'll have to revert to RWD. But thats just too damn easy, seems like every one has an RB now a days including their mom in daily grocery getter. :nono:

Guess I'll hunt down AT bellhousing just in case, Rb25 RWD would be probably ideal think Rb20s came At as well.

Keeping my eyes peeled for more development on this :gapteeth:

And thanks for reflashing that ECU for me, RB20 is back in business for last couple of months, other ECU is dead :bigthumb:

Matt.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Ihiryu » Mon May 20, 2013 2:00 pm

Carl, you might want to take a look at this unit.
http://www.autometer.com/cat_accessorie ... px?vid=234

Being in the 1uz crowd as well, a few people have been using the CD009 tranny's for some time now. This is what they use to fix it all. However, I don't know what kind of signals the S13/14 clusters need, but people have been using this unit with pretty good success.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby 240z4u » Tue May 21, 2013 5:10 am

I am afraid to see what the bill is on this conversion. I think I'll be sticking with a 5sp. Pretty neat though.

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Tue May 21, 2013 8:44 pm

I had thought about using a gps based speedo but I REALLY dont like the concept of an active gps locator in the car at all times...just one of those things I'm weird about.
The abs ring in the j30 snout should work to provide a decent speed signal, I scooped up a converter box from a friend for nothing in exchange for a touchup tune on his car next time I saw him so its worth a go first before investigating other options.

As I have a cd005 box and the adapter was designed to use a cd000 box so the main bearing for the input shaft size is different...
Nissan has 3 different main bearing sizes for the range of gearboxes with the cd000 being 100mm, the cd005 at 95mm and the cd009 boxes being 90mm, why...well we can only speculate but that is how it goes.
Had to machine up a spacer to take up the slack in the bearing OD so it would be centered in the plate.
I've been informed when this kit goes into production shim spacers will be available for different transmissions so the kit will be a true bolt on for any z33/4 6spd box regardless of generation.

Image

Image

more to come shortly.

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Coolwhip » Wed May 22, 2013 12:57 pm

you know I love it. :biggrin:

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Seeing if you still can get them blocks

Postby Rbgordy » Sat May 25, 2013 12:59 pm

Carl H wrote:should be good to go to use the q diffs, they have snout sensors as well...unless you have a later model which i think has 4 channel abs.
should also work lol...if you're interested start tracking down an rb auto bell housing.
Hi Carl sorry to be random but can u email me I some reason can't message you but I'm just wondering can you get anymore of these 30 blocks haha if so email me at [email protected] I got one now but I'm afraid ill need a spare

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby LeD ippen » Sat May 25, 2013 8:24 pm

Finally i was gonna try to fit the z33 tranny i have laying around myself but if there's an r&d kit im sold. been feeling like i missing a gear on the highway ever since i been driving it. lmk Carl

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby HxC_Nismo » Mon May 27, 2013 2:32 pm

I'm Excited to see this, but my s14 is non abs.

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Mon May 27, 2013 5:11 pm

j30 final has an abs reluctor and ring so it wont be a problem...

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby JTR32gtst » Tue May 28, 2013 8:24 am

Interesting. I have an R32 gtst that is getting a built RB20 and I know the RB20 trans will be a huge limitation on end power goals. I am keeping it below 450 at the wheels for this point.

I am going to stay on this and see how it goes. Great post so far.

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Tue May 28, 2013 9:47 pm

nothing crazy to update but I reassembled the transmission and got it ready to go into the car...should be able to fit it next week if all goes well.

lathed up a stand off for the clutch line bracketry, welding to nissan cast aluminum is the pits.
Image

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made a dust cover/inspection plate to cover the giant hole I had cut in the bellhousing as I had no idea where the lines were going to land.
Image

Image

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Tofubadguy » Wed May 29, 2013 2:19 am

Such a good idea! Good job dude! Love to do this for the R32 GTR!

A little transfercase adapterizing?...

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby projects » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:19 am

wow that's intense. i've been working on the same conversion. i started it 2 years ago, spent 6 months designing the plate and making it. got it all done, but i now need to complete the conversion drive shaft and remote shifter and do some R&D to complete it.

i just done a single plate and milled and ground out the bell housing and altered the starter to work. Could provide some pictures of mineif people want to see another way of putting a Z33 box behind a RB?

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby 74260zt » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:57 pm

Nice! Subscribed... :dblthumb:

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby 240z4u » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:13 am

projects wrote:wow that's intense. i've been working on the same conversion. i started it 2 years ago, spent 6 months designing the plate and making it. got it all done, but i now need to complete the conversion drive shaft and remote shifter and do some R&D to complete it.

i just done a single plate and milled and ground out the bell housing and altered the starter to work. Could provide some pictures of mineif people want to see another way of putting a Z33 box behind a RB?
I'd love to, but start your own thread so it doesn't make this one confusing!

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby bmxarmy » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:28 am

i just done a single plate and milled and ground out the bell housing and altered the starter to work. Could provide some pictures of mineif people want to see another way of putting a Z33 box behind a RB?[/quote]

I'd love to, but start your own thread so it doesn't make this one confusing![/quote]

x2

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Carl H
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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby Carl H » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:53 pm

I've seen the style you're talking about and i dont care for it as it introduces several problems into the equation.
beauty of this adapter is it will work with any motor assuming you have an auto bell...its not locked to the rb bell pattern

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Re: want a 6 speed for your rb? look inside.

Postby 74260zt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:29 am

Any more updates on this Carl...


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