VQ35DE swapped competition setup silvia build

[Kraelic]

I am seriously considering a vq30det swap myself. You mentioned there was no room for a turbo? The vq30det uses a log style manifold and a turbo similar to a RB turbo. It hugs tight under the head and against the block and looks to be in a similar place as an RB series. Looks can be deceiving though.

Do you have pictures of how your vq sits in the bay from underneath? I have seen vqswap's oil pan as it clears the crossmember and sway bar and sits with the pan in line with the crossmember or maybe just slightly lower. How does the clearance around the steering rack, drivers side frame rail, bellhousing, and your modified header look? How much room is between the back of the engine and the firewall? Those heater hoses were a bear to reattach on a 4cylinder, and the vq30det has its y-pipe wrapping the back just above the bellhousing.

I know there will be some serious work to put it in, but I am hoping to only need to fabricate a custom turbo elbow to clear the steering and mate to a sr20det 3" downpipe with a chop and flexjoint Buy a crossmember and shifter relocator from vqswap, and I have seen people reuse the ka transmission crossmember by moving it back so the front holes line up to the rear holes on the frame and fixed with some steel plates welded to the crossmember to reach those front holes again. And a custom driveshaft of course to finish up the mechanical parts.

[BlackDragon328]

cc4usmc....go bother someone who cares and stop spamming my thread please. I dont care what you think of my car and I am quite disinterested in arguing or having others argue on my thread.

white comet, I appreciate your comments about my build...even if we dont always agree, but please ignore cc4usmc's lack of maturity and dont respond anymore...he'll just keep responding back and so on and so forth.

now Kraelic... thats a lot of words, lets see if I can answer each question without missing one.

First off, no I dont have pictures, and the engine is currently out of my car so I cannot get any, but I will remember to get some of the underside of the engine if/when I have the money to finish the build.I dont believe I said there was NO room for the turbo, but if I did, I will correct myself, there is LITTLE room for the turbo....it may be possible to get one sitting in there...I did not look into it seriously because it is my wish to go supercharged more then turboed.I do not know the VQ30DET well so I cannot comment on it as far as how it would fit, but I will say this from my experience, its always easier to plan what to do then it is to execute it...there is ALWAYS a problem somewhere when a custom swap is done, up to the builder to solve each dilemma as it comes up.There is very little clearance between the oil pan and the front sway bar, and the oil pan sits right about in line with the crossmember. (I suggest placing a shield under the oil pan....rock+oil pan= very bad day)There is NO clearance around the steering rack, and what I mean by that is that there is only enough clearance to let it flex on the car...so like 1in or so in each direction.Forgive my ignorance but I am not sure what the driver side frame rail is.... so I cannot answer this questionThe bell housing fits right where it should, there is not tons of room around it but we just bolted the transmission up with the kit provided by VQswap and...no problems there.My modified header was modified for the steering rack to fit...again, 1in of clearance MAX on that one.there is again very little room between the back of the engine and the firewall. the entire setup fits very tightly in the 240sx engine bay. For about 45mins I thought it wouldnt fit as me and my mechanic wrestled with it until it finally snapped into place, settling down right where it should be (only to find out we had to take it out again...poo)

as for your plan described, it seems to be solid. I will say this again though, there is always problems. I didnt think so with mine and had to fix a lot of things that cost me more money then i thought. so well....just keep some extra money aside just in case I'd say.I am not sure your idea with the KA transmission crossmember is a very good idea, it REALLY depends on how you pull it off. I would hate to see you post something later saying the transmission crossmember didnt hold while you were driving. but reinforced correctly, I would think it could be pulled off. Check the quality of the steel you use for the plates and get a good solid weld on there with a TIG or plasma welder would be my two suggestions.Good luck with the project. I hope I answered all ur questions, I will try to get some pics up when I have the engine back in its bay and I will get a pic of the bay without the engine asap in the meantime.

[White Comet]

yeah your right about cc4usmc. yeah its good to talk to someone that has different opinions, you dont need someone that always agrees with you

[RagingPanda]

I don't care about his wheel, his paint job, etc etc. Of course they could be better if they're aren't in the first place. I give props to anyone that spend tons of time working on their car especially doing something new instead of making a photo copy. That is what I judge on and he deserve props instead useless comment. If you could show me something you build that is better and require more head scratching then please show me. Otherwise as far as I know him>you. This is why I sold my 240...hate the majority of the people owning them and their parking hard lifestyle.

btw: dragon, you're doing a great job btw. You should check out the 240hoke's page. http://www.vq240z.com-a.googlepages.com/home
Modified by RagingPanda at 6:35 PM 1/11/2009

[bman49]

BlackDragon, did you have a lot of experience with engines before this swap? Also is there anyway to use the 350 stock headers without switching the steering line? I'm really looking to trying to get a CARB legal VQ35 swap into a 95' 240. The only problem is I've never had the pleasure to be able to seriously work on cars but I know a mechanic who's really good and would help for basically nothing. Also how much work did the mechanic do? How much did you pay him? One more question, How much money did you spend on the engine + swap?
Modified by bman49 at 4:05 AM 1/11/2009

[BlackDragon328]

ragingpanda: thank you fur the props. I dont claim to be better then others because of this build...nor do I think I am, but I did gain experience doing it and I'm still learning loads working on my cars and have loads more to learn i'm sure.That 240Z is b-e-a-utiful btw, I'd love to cross that on the street someday (although I'd probably crash cuz id stare at it and forget im driving )

bman49:

I had a decent level of experience with engines before this swap, but I had never SWAPPED an engine before, unless you count an SR20DET into a 240sx and that isnt a swap....its just >remove ka >add SR20.There is NO WAY to use the stock Z headers on the 240sx, as far as I know...at all, without heavy heavy mods. The headers I had where from the VQswap kit and even then I still had to modify them.Making a VQ35de swapped 240sx CARB legal, if I remember well, is not too hard. I was going to do it with this car originally and have a street legal track car.I dropped the project because I decided otherwise later and just went track but here is what I remember.It has to be reregistered as a 350Z (yes...the 240sx is now a 350Z). It has to go back to a referee and they will decide if the car is "safe" (hp to brake ratios and other such things). It MUST have the original ECU. this is a pain because the original under-dash harness must be installed. I personally added a methanol kit which lowers smog emitions so that it had a better chance of passing smog at the referee with no problems.How much work did my mechanic do....well, I'm not sure I can really answer that because I dont really know. for about a year though, it was either at his shop or at another shop, and although I cannot give out a number, many many hours went into building it, that much I can say.I also dont remember what I paid him, hes a friend of mine and hes worked on all my cars so he tries to keep prices at a minimum for me, but I know that even with that its over 1KJust for the parts without installation, I spend 2.5K on the engine and transmission and harness (no ECU) and I spent roughly 2K on the vqswap kit (I also bought an AEM stand alone for 2K more).I dont know how much I spent for install but it went to 3 different shops for the engine install alone, my mechanics in Santa Barbara, G-dimensions in City of Industry, and San Dimas auto in San Dimas (the makers of the VQswap kit). So between gas, finding a trailer (I dont currently own one), and paying mechanics it must have cost a hell of a lot of money...and I'm not even done yet, I need to send the engine back to LA for a rebuild once I get the money.hope that answered ur questions.

CJ

[SR24DET]

I think this build is awsome and it makes me wonder where some of you guys get all that money to throw into it. Im jelous. I think this car is sick. I like the rims, spoiler, kit, and motor swap. Everything about this is awsome. As to other peoples dislikes about the rims, I feel like so much of this car is of such a high calibur that the rims dont make the bar, but i like them none the less. I think the spoiler fits the car and I like to see something different. In general, I HATE spoilers. They look the worst on cars without kits. Some cars with kits look good with them, and this is one of them.

I must have missed whats wrong with the car, that is as to why your selling it, but i think you need to finish. To much effort has gone into it to not see it finish.

[Kraelic]

You have indeed helped a lot, sorry to toss so much out there at once, theres been a relative few vq pioneers and I am trying to absorb as much as I can. I have a few pictures to try and help clear up what I am looking for.

I know even the best laid plans will run into unforseen setbacks. I am just trying to avoid hitting something that could be a project stopper and smooth things over to become workaround issues. At the moment my focus is on the turbo dump. I will look around to try and see where the rb's and sr's dump normally and with the right pictures and scale I should be able to tell if it will be viable.

vq30det engine

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...o.jpg

Same engine with some piping removed for clarity, also you can see roughly how far back the turbo will sit, the front of the exhaust coming into the impeller looks to be in line with the bellhousing edge

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...1.jpg

here is the factory log style manifold

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...3.jpg

rear view of the engine, you can see the factory header hugging the block over the bellhousing. and it looks like the turbo would be in a similar spot as say an rb20det or maybe rb25det?

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...o.jpg

here's the empty bay with a vqswap crossmember, the steering column is near the driver's side frame rail. what's the name for this? unibodys dont truely have a frame rail do they? the crossmember bolts to it and it goes to the firewall and wraps underneath the car, in an sr and rb the turbo elbow can wrap that column somehow without hitting if the heatshield is removed.

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...7.jpg

with the engine in, the oilpan sits flush with the crossmember. there will indeed need to be a skid plate or something to protect this from road debris

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...1.jpg

and here is the modded ka transmission crossmember, basically 1/4 inch steel plate with three holes with the crossmember's two hole distance between holes one and two and between two and three so that the front hole on the cross member goes into the rear hole on the frame and you can put in the remaining two bolts into the frame on the plates, the reward extended plates are welded to the crossmember.

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...8.jpg

[bman49]

Thanks for the info but I have a few more questions. I thought it couldn't be CARB legal if you have custom headers. Is this true or not? Also if I couldn't use the custom headers do you think I would be able to use some DC Sport headers? Also I forgot to mention great job on the build! FTW!

[BlackDragon328]

Sr24det: thanks for the props. I am indeed going to look into finishing this car. I am possibly selling it because I dont have that much money left in front of me, I lost my job and I may be moving to japan to go to a design school there, oh...and my rents lost their jobs (f*cking economy) and so they are selling their house where all my cars currently reside in their driveway...... I hate to have to put this car up for sale, and I am not sure I WILL sell it even if I get an offer....I just need to have it up because if things go from bad as they are now to worse...it'll need to go asap so I dont end up with no cash for rent....

Sooo...thats the reasons for the FS add. as I said, if things get better, I wanna finish it.

I again state that I agree with the rims...too cheap for such a car. I will add that I REALLY like the LOOK of the rims, thus the buy, but I didnt really know as much about offsets and weight when I bought them. Now that I know, I dislike the weight factor and dont really know what to do yet. I may ignore the weight and add some spacers....not the best but I DO like these rims and making them +15s or even 0 with spacers isnt out of the question for me...then ill drift em and see if they work or not. I am also looking into TE37s but dont have ANY money at the moment, might get them later though...I can dream

Kraelic: I will answer your post as soon as I can but I dont have time to seriously look over everything right now and I want to take a good amount of time to help you and not blurt out crap cuz I dont have time for thoughtful answers. so as I stated, ill answer it soon....just not rite now.

CJ

[BlackDragon328]

Bman49: thanks for the props, its nice to hear most people seem to like my build, even if they dont agree with all of my choices on it.

I dont really know about the headers...that is an interesting question actually. Maybe if you modified stock headers it would be overlooked...? I think the best way to get through smog with custom headers though is to wrap them, but I am not sure if a referee would see through that, the smog guys never do.For the DC sports headers, there is no way to use ANY header without modifying it (as far as I know). One of the 3 header pipes goes literally RIGHT through the steering linkage. So that pipe has to be rerouted, or the steering linkage has to be moved/modified (I dont suggest that, I really dont know what kind of troubles that could bring about)

CJ

[Kraelic]

Do take your time, you have a lot on you at the moment. I hope things work out for the better for you though, it would be unfortunate to have to abandon your car.

I have found a few pics of a rb setup, if the turbos sit in a nearly identical spot I should have a few options.

RB in s13 chassis, the turbo is by the steering column

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...4.jpg

Custom RB turbo elbow, I would probably run both pipes on the same side and not go around both sides as this one did.

http://i495.photobucket.com/al...9.jpg

Just need some good pictures when you are able get the engine back in say straight in from the side up under the car showing the steering column knuckle and the vq bellhousing for reference, and from under the driver floorboard up into the engine with the steering rack and bellhousing, and into the area around your header with the cylinder head viewable, and last a pic of the rear of the engine and the firewall for that clearance.

Many thanks for sharing your build to this point and sharing what you have learned.

[Kraelic]

sorry for the double post, I only hit post once and it took a long time to load.

[bman49]

Woh! That was weird I didn't mean to post.

[BlackDragon328]

all right Kraelic....lets see how much I can help on this.

first off I have to say, whatever I am going to say here is ALL theoretical as its really hard to evaluate distances without actually being on the spot. So I am going to give it my best shot but I may be wrong, especially since the VQ series engine fits in the engine bay with as little as 2-5in to spare in some places, most notably the steering column. If I someone spots something I didnt, call me out on it please, Id rather be wrong and learn from it then keep being stupid while thinking im right

so,

I was going to say that the VQ30 mounting points look to be in the same place as the VQ35 but then I noticed that you had a VQswap cross-member already so you obviously know this.

First problem I see is this,I took a look at where the turbo is placed, and also how the exhaust manifold sits, and I am sorry but the turbo is in THE WORSE place possible. your turbo seems to sit exactly where the steering column sits on a 240sx. On the other hand, the manifold is really compact and I think the manifold ITSELF can clear the steering column, but without the turbo.

My first thought and suggestion for the turbo problem is to relocate the turbo to the other side of the car. it'll take more piping to do so but it will be easier then trying to modify the steering column and linkage. cut and weld the manifold turbo outlet off of the driver side and place it on the passenger side where there is thankfully a fair amount of room. this would also mean the the exhaust will start from the passenger side, which I know is not a problem as I am running a true dual exhaust on my silvia build (check out the pics of it on page...2 or 3 I think).

So the second problem I was looking at is the room between the engine and firewall. I took a look at my SR swapped 240sx today and the SR downpipe/exhaust doesnt really go the same way as the VQ30 so I am not sure what the reference to the SR was... On the other hand I looked online at an RB swap (dont have one of those sitting in my driveway unlike the SR) and it looks like the RB engine is indeed quite similar and might be a good swap to look at to figure out how the exhaust could fit.

I just took a look at the picture you placed of the RB build and it seems to fit with the turbo on the driver side, which is interesting and may prove me wrong. Maybe the turbo does work on the driver side. I will also point out on that build that, much like my build, there is what seems to be no more then 1-2in of space in between the column and the headers.

I like what you did with the transmission crossmember btw. I was a little worried about a mod of that sort but the welds look strong and the 1/4in steel is not thin steel.

oookay....I think that about wraps up everything....? Well, If I missed something, feel free to point it out. I look forward to seeing this build, it looks like your planning it out a lot more then I originally did, and that can only be a good thing.

I came into a little cash btw by placing 3rd in a snowboard competition (best trick: 6ft kicker gap to 270 back noseblunt down a 25ft box)....sorry had to brag about that one, I have been trying it all winter and had 1 concussion and a ripped shoulder muscle because if it, and finally landed it two days prior to the competition and again at the comp thus placing 3rd.The point being, I have a little money so I am trying to get a VQ long block and might be able to afford it, so....maybe...my silvia will be running in a month or two (buy motor... then work on it in between school and work). I'm keeping my fingers crossed, knocking on wood and doing everything from praying to God and at the same time trying to sell my soul to the devil for this one

[BlackDragon328]

forgot to say Kraelic, I will indeed definitely remember to take the specific shots your asking for when the engine is back in. hopefully that'll be semi soon.

[bman49]

Hey BlackDragon I have another question. How are the headers modified to be able to clear the steering column.

[BlackDragon328]

I had to cut off one of the three header pipes completely and had to close off that portion of the pipe on the header (both on the header flange and the 3 point exhaust flange portion). I then had to cut open a hole at the top of the header (could have been done on the bottom as well) for the third pipe and weld a new pipe there. the only complicated part of the process was bending the new pipe portion of the header to suit the car, as well as making it so there is no back-pressure in the pipe. this was tested by an exhaust builder with...as I understand it... a flange hooked up to the header through which was passed compressed air at a similar rate that the engine will. (im not sure exactly how this works...maybe Im explaining it all wrong, does anyone have experience in this so they may explain it better then I can?)

update on the cash I got.....my TD04H turbo on my miata took a **** on me and since that is my daily driver....I need to get that taken care of first. which totally sucks cuz now I am not sure I can get the long block

[RCA]

ookay, so first off. I agree with white comet. I have an SR swapped 240SX as well and it ran perfectly under strenuous dirfting conditions for a long time. it finally spun a bearing and I rebuilt it myself for about 1.5K. not very expensive, so yes, if i had given it to a shop maybe 2.5-3K...but thats still below the VQ swap.as for the 5 lug for drifting, its just not needed, could it help, maybe yes. but I looked into the entire thing and it just seemed to be a waste of money. as for brakes, I spoke with a custom maker in texas and I was told that I did not need an upgrade with 300HP or so to the wheels. he suggested I get one if I went with a 500-600HP setup. I was scepitcal, much like you so I double checked other places and, san dimas auto amoung one of them, told me it was a plus for finding good offset wheels but was not needed. and would definitely not add or take away any sort of performance to the car to do or not do one.I might also add that I have added a hydraulic e-brake made by K-sport. its different from a big brake kit, and I am not trying to relate it to that but works very well for breaking out the rear wheels and controling them thereafter.I'm looking into a K-sport big brake kit but its gonno cost about $3000 for the kit and another $400 for the extra 2 calipers to hook up to the e-brake. (im curently running the stock 240sx calipers that i took off another 240sx.

Um Wilwood kit will cost you around 2.5k shipped and that includes 6por fronts w/ 13' rotors and 4pot rears with 12' rotors

Just use the hydro ebrake from K sport and your all set

[BlackDragon328]

yea, at this point im not even looking into big brake kits anymore....i just need my engine finished and my car running....then ill take it to the track, take it easy at first and see what it needs from there.

2.5K for a willwood 6 pot kit is not a bad deal btw..... maybe if i have money again someday

[irax]

any updates on the car man?