VQ35DE ping ping pinging when it's hot, need expert professional advise

Discuss topics related to the VQ series engine.
User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

VQ35DE ping ping pinging when it's hot, need expert professional advise

Postby tubbedz » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:53 am

I posted this thread in response to another 2005 Murano with pinging issues on a Nissan Help Forum, but so far no expert advise from anyone solving the issues. Any experts HERE???

A friend with a 2004 Murano also has pinging issues. It only pings at part-throttle and only with the engine fully warmed up. Here are some things we have tried and has not solved the issue. Again, we have no codes stored whatsover.

We replaced with new: MAF $500, OEM NGK Plugs PLFR5A-11 $60, cleaned Throttle Body and Reset computer, Reset idle learning, Reset throttle, 2- Fuel pressure regulators $100 + $90, Coolant $10, Air filter $10, Oil change $50, full tank of Union 76 100-Octane unleaded, Redline fuel injection cleaner, Seafoam flush, Knock Sensor $25, changed CVT transmission oil $20/quart, had the Nissan dealer re-flash the computer $300, PCV valve $10, upper intake gasket $10, lower intake gasket $25, coolant temperature sensor $30, thermostat $40. @$$%!

Things I'm considering: replacing all the spark plugs with one step colder NGK PLFR6A-11. Also I questioned the ignition coils, but I have no misfire codes. So I took a coil apart. I noticed that in each coil boot there is a spring that transfers voltage to the plug. Wound in the spring is a resistor to reduce RF Interference. Maybe this resistor heats and fails?? So I will replace all the boots and resistors with NGW 58913. Will follow up later....

Any Nissan ECM specialists on here!!! Here is what I have read/heard from reading automotive manuals, talking to mechanics and racing. When the engine is cold, the ECM is in a specific "map" where extra fuel is introduced. This raises the engine idle during the "warm up" period. Also, several sensors are not active until fully heated, probably retarding the ignition timing. Some of theses sensors, are the MAF and the Oxygen sensors. There maybe others. These sensors require intense heat to work and at operating temperature they probably change the ECM "map" to decrease the extra fuel and fine tune or increase the timing.

Also, the Coolant Thermostat is closed when cold and opens when the engine is "warmed up". The warmed coolant triggers the "coolant temp sensor", which also changes the fuel/timing "map".

Furthermore, ignition coils work fine when they are "cool", but once introduced to extreme heat they tend to fail. Most coils have a primary and secondary winding where the secondary winding cannot be physically tested. A coil will work fine with just the primary winding and you will never know the secondary is not working until the coil completely fails and you get misfires. When our race car is misfiring/running odd we sometimes swap in new coil or ignition box.

All of these Sensors/Triggers could probably be a factor why the engine does not ping when cold and will not ever trigger a code until the Sensor/Trigger has completely failed and becomes non-operational.

Once the engine is "warmed up" all of the sensors become active and the extra fuel is not needed. These sensors(MAF, thermostat, Oxygen Sensor) all become fully heated and functioning. Except the ignition coil, as it does not like heat. Any one of these sensors could be faulty and causing the pinging when the engine is warmed and at operating temperature.

Other factors regarding a constant "pinging" that does not involve cold or warm engine temperatures are mechanical failure. Such as cracked heads/block, blown head gasket, piston ring failure, leaking valve seals, etc...

Because my friend's vehicle does not ping when cold I tend to believe that it is not a mechanical issue with the engine but instead a Sensor or the ECM is at fault. Also when in Neutral there is no pinging. Also, in Drive, if the rpm's are increased above the pinging, the pinging disappears. What mode or "map" does the ECM switch to when going from Neutral to Drive??? Is it variable, does it depend upon engine load/engine vacuum???

These are some of my findings so far. If others have gone as in depth as I have and replaced/tested any/all sensors/ECM on their Murano or VQ35DE, please include more info to this thread so we can solve this. I have also noticed that the same issues are also related to Altima's and Maxima's.

Please help find a cure!!!

Merry Christmas!!


User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Postby tubbedz » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 am

Bump.......

I guess no one fixes their own cars anymore....

all4bspinnin
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 1:32 pm
Contact:

Re: (tubbedz)

Postby all4bspinnin » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:12 am

i am not reading all that...

i hope your not talking about the expansion & contraction pings that metal makes when it heats and cools...

for ex, my exhaust pings when its cooling

...

by ping im assuming you're talking about spark knock?

knock sensor working?

Have you tried running a 100oct unleaded to see if it goes away?

If your vehicle is still under power train warranty then let nissan figure it out. If you bought it brand new and you have to continually take it back to the shop you can claim it as a lemon if certain criteria are met.
Modified by all4bspinnin at 7:18 AM 12/31/2009

User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Re: (all4bspinnin)

Postby tubbedz » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:42 pm

all4bspinnin wrote:i am not reading all that...

i hope your not talking about the expansion & contraction pings that metal makes when it heats and cools...

for ex, my exhaust pings when its cooling

NO, not expansion or contraction of metal......I weld and know what that "ping" sounds like......

by ping im assuming you're talking about spark knock?

knock sensor working?

-already replaced the knock sensor...already stated that in my post.......

Have you tried running a 100oct unleaded to see if it goes away?-already tried a full tank of Union 76, 100 octane unleaded...already stated that in my post.....

If your vehicle is still under power train warranty then let nissan figure it out. If you bought it brand new and you have to continually take it back to the shop you can claim it as a lemon if certain criteria are met. -took it too the Nissan dealer and the Nissan Mechanic states on the receipt that it is engine ping/spark knock, but can find no "codes" stored or any misfire codes so they are asuming that all is normal

Modified by all4bspinnin at 7:18 AM 12/31/2009

User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Postby tubbedz » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:43 pm

I guess no experts........

User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Re: (tubbedz)

Postby tubbedz » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:06 am

Update!!!!

I found a "piggyback" ECM controller that can retard ignition and modify fuel curves!!!! Check this out....

part #FTC1-103 is for the VQ35DE engine part #FTC1-110 is for the VQ30DE enginepart #FTC1-034 is for the Nissan 350Z

http://www.splitsec.com/produc...r.htm

Propdr
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:13 am
Car: n/a
Contact:

Re: (tubbedz)

Postby Propdr » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:01 am

If you look at the chamber end of the spark plug what color combustion deposits are on the center electrode insulator?Are all six of the spark plugs showing the same combustion deposit color?

Spark plug color can really tell you a lot about how an engine is running. It can also tell you if its only one cylinder that is detonating or all six.Have you found any spark plugs that have cracked or broken insulators around the electrode?

Sounds like the fuel and or timing curve needs to be re-maped. (I think jet performance can do that, but I'm not 100% sure.)

Also a good dyno shop could diagnose it.

One trick that comes to mind that might treat the symptom but wont really fix the true problem is water injection.

A wide variety of things can cause detonation such as sharp burrs in the chamber due to manufacturing defects, improper quench clearance, improper fuel distribution (bad injector and or low fuel pressure), high cylinder head temp, high induction air temp, incorrect spark plug heat range, bad or sluggish oxygen sensor, ignition timing too far advanced etc......

More info would really help

-Jay


User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Postby tubbedz » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:40 am

1. all six spark plugs burn the same color - even tan(been there done that)- I'm from the "old school" and we support a supercharged race car and I own a "blown" street car. Plugs have already been read.....

2.No broken or cracked insulators- I read plugs on our supercharged race car all the time

3.Yes, it does sound like the fuel and timing curve needs to be re-maped. We took it to Nissan, paid $300 and Nissan claims the ECU was reflashed. Jet performance doesn't do VQ35DE ECU's. Their main clientele is domestic vehicles, not imports. Now what??????

4. NO good Dyno shops here.....they can dyno the car but can't tune the ECU. It is almost impossible to change the fuel maps and timing curves on the VQ35DE ECU.....

5. Yes, water injection may work but, it is a "band aid" fix. I would rather get the "piggyback" ECU and change the timing and fuel maps.

quote-"A wide variety of things can cause detonation such as sharp burrs in the chamber due to manufacturing defects, improper quench clearance, improper fuel distribution (bad injector and or low fuel pressure), high cylinder head temp, high induction air temp, incorrect spark plug heat range, bad or sluggish oxygen sensor, ignition timing too far advanced etc......"

I have already considered all of this............like I mentioned, we understand the mechanical and physical aspects of an internal combustion engine and the effects and causes of detonation and pre-ignition. We don't need any defenitions. We need hardcore experience with this specific engine. What we would like to understand is what factors affects the fuel map and timing curve on these engines. Specifically what sensors or map or timing is given at a specific RPM or temperature??? Why does it suddenly and randomly ping with no indication of a misfire or stored codes????? This is why we need expert advise not causes or defenitions of preignition......

Propdr
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:13 am
Car: n/a
Contact:

Re: (tubbedz)

Postby Propdr » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:51 pm

No need to get pissy.

If you know your sh*t why haven't you tricked the ECU with a oxygen sensor simulator so it will run fatter across the curve? One for an american car should work just change the connector.

Oh fyi I talked to jet performance. They will work on it but you have to send them the ecu.

Further more any Tom d!ck or Jane can plunk down $5000 for a roots type blower kit but that does not necessarily mean they know what they are doing.
Modified by Propdr at 10:31 PM 1/6/2010

User avatar
tubbedz
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:25 am
Car: Several and a Harley until the wife says "sell it"
Contact:

Postby tubbedz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:01 am

I'm sorry if I came off pissy, but I think the engine in my friend's car is a POS....

We have tricked several Oxygen Sensors on our turbo'd 240 but, don't want to trick the ECU, we want to figure out the cause...

Jet Performance will charge the same amount as the "piggy back" ECU...

Yes, any Tom, d!ck, or Jane can buy a roots blower, a pair of intercooled twin turbos, or NOS, but can they tune and bulid their own engines and consecutively race a whole season in the NHRA?? I can....you should see my turbo'd/intercooled 240 that I bring out to drifting events.

FAST-DATSUN
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:46 am
Contact:

Re: (tubbedz)

Postby FAST-DATSUN » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:26 am

Need to get a CONSULT on it and drive it to see what timing and fuel trim are doing. That will tell you what wrong and need to be fixed...

Q45tech
Moderator
Posts: 14365
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl

Re: (FAST-DATSUN)

Postby Q45tech » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 am

Unfortunately concerns for good MPG and high power output force engineers to stay on ragged edge of preignition...........a tiny bit of which is good but disturbs some.

WE always start with fresh brand new plugs and work out and away from those.

Does engine use any oil is that can reduce the octane of fuel and cause pinging?

wesrobb
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:34 am
Car: 350Z HR

Re: VQ35DE ping ping pinging when it's hot, need expert professional advise

Postby wesrobb » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:40 am

@tubbedz I know this is an ancient post but did you ever find a solution to this? I have the exact same problem and can't seem to find much info about it.

NutriaforBreakfast
Posts: 1316
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:41 pm
Car: Nissan Maxima 1995 VQDE engine

Re: VQ35DE ping ping pinging when it's hot, need expert professional advise

Postby NutriaforBreakfast » Fri May 20, 2016 10:39 am

What about carbon in the engine? If carbon gets too hot it could cause the gas-air mixture to
ignite before the complete engine cycle (predetonation). Maybe try to decarb with seafoam?


Return to “VQ30DE / VQ35DE / VQ35HR Forum”

cron