VK56DE with VH heads?

[milenkogt]

Hello,

I have two 240sx coupes and planning on buying a third, one of the coupes already has a KAT with 60-1 for daily driving.

The other coupe I have is going to have a VH45DE or VK56de. I am leaning more towards the VH45de due to the engine/trans adapter kits available from Mazworx and xcessive. I will be using a z32 transmission, and i'm leaning towards the Xcessive kit as I have already purchased parts from them in the past.

questions...

1. Will the VH45DE heads fit on the VK56DE?


2.If I wanted to increase displacement of the VH45de to a 5.0L, will the stock bottom end handle a 98mm bore? Do I have to use VK56DE pistons?
( I don't plan on boosting the VH45de, just doing an all motor build). basically what is the safest bore limits of the stock VH45de bottom end?


3. Who else other than mazworx makes cams for the VH45de? I want the biggest/aggressive cam for an all motor build.


4.Does anyone have a dyno graph before and after with cam swap on a VH45DE?


5.Should the VH45DE heads be CNC ported, oversized valves, etc...( I am installing new valvesprings regardless, I want to spin the engine to atleast 7500rpm, or whatever the cams operating range are limited too)


6.LASTLY and most important, those of you with VH45DE swaps into an Schassis, can you retain the a/c compressor? If so do I have to have new lines made or what?


Thanks guys, I am searching more and more as we speak, I was just hoping questions #1 and #6 would be answered first as they are most important.

[Chrispy300]

1. No.

2. You will have to sleeve it to get it to that size. John Dixon did it. Search for his old threads.

3. No one on your side of the world. There is some stuff available in New Zealand from the stock car builders, maybe Mettler can point you in the right direction

4. Superhatch had one, but that was with a powerglide (or something as equally dyno unfriendly)

5. Doubt anyone does CNC porting of the VH heads. Do it the old fashioned way. I expect you will have to be pushing closer to 9000rpm for what you want. Again look at John Dixon's stuff. In my VH'd Z32 I find the limiter comes up very quick and I've hit it a few times by accident, no drop in power like you get with a VG30DE at high revs.

6. Haven't seen working AC in a VH'd S chassis. I've seen it work in Z32's though.

[gs14racer]

i reved my stock cammed vh45de to 7500 rpm on a regular basis lol..

as a matter of fact, i have the only set of mazworx cams assmebled in a set of heads sitting in my garage since last ... last april lol.

[milenkogt]

Thank you for your response crispy. I will probably stick with a stock VH45DE currently with a JWT ECU, and a Mazworx or xcessive swap kit with mounts, driveshaft, trans adapter, p/s adapter, altenator adapter, long tube headers and see how she runs with a cold air intake and custom exhaust.

Then After she is dynoed I will swap in the cams/valvesprings, then another retune.

I will search for John Dixons threads...maybe he has something about ITB's.

Eventually I would like to run all motor at 5.0L as I feel that should be enough power for a drift or track car and street use.

I have Ka24de-t i'm building that is going to be fed by a Borg warner S372R for my daily driver lol, should make over 500rwhp on pump 93 octane and still retain the a/c. lol Its going to be my show car.

I will have a KA24DET 700-800rwhp S13 coupe with silvia front end. Daily driver
also... S13 with VH45DE swap all motor for a track car..

And I have my 2008 titan, I am getting ready to add JWT CS2 CVTCS cams, 3.73 gears, uprev tune, B&M trans cooler and i'm going to design my own intake manifold using a 90mm GM drive by wire throttle body. I'm shooting for 400rwhp all motor on my titan's VK56DE!

My titan put down 340rwhp/370rwtq with superchips cortex 93 octane perf tune, 2* timing adv,
S&B cold air intake, with ram air modification(ram air truly works, dropped ambient air temps by atleast 30deg while moving, I veiwed IATs with Cortex.)
Doug thorley long tube headers, custom true dual exhaust with xpipe and dumps,
Transgo Shift kit, Detroit tru trac, PML transmission pan and the factory 3.36 rear gear.
NFABWORKS traction bars, 20x10 KMC rockstars with Cooper Zeon LTZ 305/50/20 tires

[David Steele]

Something isn't making sense here why would you want this motor and go backwards with engines on a power goal? 700-800rwhp KA24DE isn't going to be any sort of street car with a 2 liter engine you're just driving it on the street that's not even a good block, really! Bridges are small it's an iron block it will be more prone to cracking.

An S372R you can make 900rwhp on that turbo.. you will be defeated by cars making a quick responding well sized 500whp, because you will have no mid range.

The VH45 how ever is bridged everywhere from side to side it's thick it's heavy aluminum it dampens vibrations and tolerates a fatal pounding that will send that broken KA block back to the metal foundry to become cooking pots.

Yeah, a VH is heavier because of DOHC heads but measure block for block if it's heavier then the comparable chevy or ford made block then someone at Nissan Motor Co. has put more emphasis in strength.

You should be more rational in my opinion.

[milenkogt]

Something isn't making sense here why would you want this motor and go backwards with engines on a power goal? 700-800rwhp KA24DE isn't going to be any sort of street car with a 2 liter engine you're just driving it on the street that's not even a good block, really! Bridges are small it's an iron block it will be more prone to cracking.

An S372R you can make 900rwhp on that turbo.. you will be defeated by cars making a quick responding well sized 500whp, because you will have no mid range.

The VH45 how ever is bridged everywhere from side to side it's thick it's heavy aluminum it dampens vibrations and tolerates a fatal pounding that will send that broken KA block back to the metal foundry to become cooking pots.

Yeah, a VH is heavier because of DOHC heads but measure block for block if it's heavier then the comparable chevy or ford made block then someone at Nissan Motor Co. has put more emphasis in strength.

You should be more rational in my opinion.

David, LOL! I understand what you are saying...BUT how many 2.4L KA24de's have you ever heard of the block letting go at 300-1000rwhp levels? Yes the STOCK rods and pistons are only good to about 450rwhp. My built engine will have the factory forged crank, carillo rods and CP pistons. Also, the S372R is perfectly fine for street driving, there is a fellow member on KA-T.org using a S372R making around 550rwhp @15psi on pump gas and he makes full boost at 5400rpms and starts making 5psi around 4750rpm. Plus his car redlines at 7800rpm. There are videos of his car at 550rwhp pump gas racing a C6 Z06 with bolt ons and DESTROYING IT! Not to mention a turbo cobra, 600whp civics and a bolt on GTR R35 lol. I love the generalized statement of I will be defeated by 500rwhp because I have no midrange...lol? Trust me...my car will have plenty of power midrange and high range, don't be so quick to judge on my setup lol

The KA24DE is an incredible engine.You can get a set of Eagle rods/CP pistons for $775 lol and it will hold 700rwhp all day! It has been used in many high horsepower applications for years and the block hasn't had problems from what I've read. You mentioned a 2.0L I'm assuming you thought I was running the SR20DET... imo what a waste.. all the money you spend to get one sent from japan, and then install it etc... you could have built the KA24de and make whatever rwhp you want.


Oh and by the way, you were asking why am I going backwards lol? I'm not...read my first post more thoroughly.

I have TWO 240sx coupes. one with a KA24DE-T daily driver and is being fully built with an S372R and other supporting mods.

And the second is going to have a VH45DE. I plan on doing an all motor build with head work, cams, and possibly a 98mm bore if the stock sleeves are in good condition to make 5.0L.

The VH45de is going to be a track/street car, doesn't need 800rwhp lol. On the other hand my KA24DE-T S372R car will have a/c and be a STREET ONLY vehicle, midrange is only a downshift away..

So David... now do you understand where I'm coming from? I don't see where I need to be rational, because there is no problem nor does any of this seem illogical to me. lol thats all that counts though for my builds, right? David,U drank to much HATERADE!!! I'm just poking fun man... as I am just stating my rational opinion.

Happy motoring to you all, and thanks for all the VH45DE responses

[milenkogt]

For those of you running large turbos on any sort 4cylinder, inline 6 or even V8... I would def check this product out form Sound Performance. I am going to use one on my KA24DET S372R build. Sound Performance Quick Spool Valve



"We are pleased to bring you a revolutionary product for aftermarket turbo kits! We have created a product that had a 25% increase in rear wheel horsepower, while reducing unwanted turbo lag! It\'s like nitrous but you\'ll never have to fill a bottle again.

The Quick Spool Valve has a butterfly valve blocking a scroll of the divided turbo housing making the turbo act as if it were a smaller turbo.The switching solenoid can be wired up to open at a set point and when the valve opens up you have the full potential of your turbo with no sacrifice of peak power

Our Quick Spool Valve is available in T3, T4, and even T6 sizes.

*** Notes:
You will need the following in order for this valve to work
- Undivided exhaust manifold
- Divided exhaust housing on your turbo

*** You will need either a switching valve only if using a standalone to control the valve.
Otherwise you can use a hobbs switch with the switching valve if not using a standalone.

The Quick Spool Valve thickness is 3/4\" so this is going to require either modification to the exhaust manifold or the downpipe to compensate for the height increase of 3/4\". The valve sits between your turbo exhaust housing and the exhaust manifold. "

Here is a dyno graph of Sound Performances own 2JZ Toyota supra using a Quick spool valve. Oh what a nice power band shift.

[LEMHEAD16]

So it looks like you just made 6 posts to advertise ^.

KA-Ts are great, welcome

Gerry if/when I have to pull my motor again, I'll be buying your heads.

[David Steele]

I'm sorry but you are very off 700rwhp KA with big heavy steel rods will destroy rod bearings with continued use in a 4 cylinder, that turbocharger also it's not suited for it 550hp isn't even that turbos range it can do over 900whp that is not practical on a little 4 cylinder.

And as for the quick spool valve, its very off topic but it's an undivided manifold on a divided turbocharger making the area smaller. Keep in mind that thing has a horrible power band to begin with, if it were a true 240 degree exh separation it would do a a lot better on a divided housing.

I can't trust you about mid range? It's not possible on those turbochargers unless you are over 4 liters and well designed turbo system. Midrange isn't a downshift away let's sound practical here. I mention 2 liters because the KA24 is a 2 liter engine 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 = still 2 liters I was being ethical and I wasn't being exact with that, but in laymans terms in the 2 liter range.

The KA24DE is a pretty normal engine there really isn't anything incredible about it, the SR20 and the VH are much better designed and they were designed after each other. Just because you haven't seen a KA crack doesn't mean its BS the RB series engines had issues cracking and these weren't extreme power levels, that's been revised somewhat to cope with the issue however an inline 6 has much better balance than a 180 degree 4 cylinder. however I'm not sure what reason you hold for calling bs on block cracking I'll have you know I come from the 4g63 family that iron block has been through more than any ka24de At extreme power levels they crack its not like everyone will report that there is a reason why the fill the blocks when exceeding 800whp hell 700whp can net 8 second ET's in a DSM.

There is also another thing I'd like to bring back up you want a 700-800whp 4 cylinder street car ONLY and now you want all motor 5 liter v8 no power goal said but its gonna be a track/street car this sure sounds ''a** backwards''.

[milenkogt]

I'm sorry but you are very off 700rwhp KA with big heavy steel rods will destroy rod bearings with continued use in a 4 cylinder, that turbocharger also it's not suited for it 550hp isn't even that turbos range it can do over 900whp that is not practical on a little 4 cylinder.

And as for the quick spool valve, its very off topic but it's an undivided manifold on a divided turbocharger making the area smaller. Keep in mind that thing has a horrible power band to begin with, if it were a true 240 degree exh separation it would do a a lot better on a divided housing.

I can't trust you about mid range? It's not possible on those turbochargers unless you are over 4 liters and well designed turbo system. Midrange isn't a downshift away let's sound practical here. I mention 2 liters because the KA24 is a 2 liter engine 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 = still 2 liters I was being ethical and I wasn't being exact with that, but in laymans terms in the 2 liter range.

The KA24DE is a pretty normal engine there really isn't anything incredible about it, the SR20 and the VH are much better designed and they were designed after each other. Just because you haven't seen a KA crack doesn't mean its BS the RB series engines had issues cracking and these weren't extreme power levels, that's been revised somewhat to cope with the issue however an inline 6 has much better balance than a 180 degree 4 cylinder. however I'm not sure what reason you hold for calling bs on block cracking I'll have you know I come from the 4g63 family that iron block has been through more than any ka24de At extreme power levels they crack its not like everyone will report that there is a reason why the fill the blocks when exceeding 800whp hell 700whp can net 8 second ET's in a DSM.

There is also another thing I'd like to bring back up you want a 700-800whp 4 cylinder street car ONLY and now you want all motor 5 liter v8 no power goal said but its gonna be a track/street car this sure sounds ''a** backwards''.

I appreciate you determination, but dude seriously its ok... everything will work out. I will post videos as well. Its not impractical, impossible or silly lol. You don't have to believe me, people don't believe what they don't understand. Ignorance and negativity is the general morale on most automotive forums.


Power goal for the VH45de is around 300-330rwhp. Why does it matter what the VH45DE makes? I stated i don't need 800rwhp, so apparently its not a drag car, and you don't need that kind of power to drift or to race in certain classes for SCCA lol. Just saying...

The ka24de will be fine at those power levels, its been done many times, and yes the 4g63 is an amazing 2.0 liter engine block, i'm sure John Shephard and Brent Rau can attest to that. And no chit a 700awhp DSM could net 8sec quatermiles, dang I would hope so its all wheel drive lol.

The S372 will work just fine on a 2.4L even on 15psi,The compressor map on an S372R starts at 15psi and I will be running either a .90 or 1.10 a/r with the quick spool valve. The lead tech at Bullseye power stated that I would be fine with what i'm doing lol. I do enjoy your input though, as your above statements will be proven wrong, i'm sorry but its the truth. I'm going to run a 93 octane pump gas tune ranging from 15-17psi or whatever psi that will be maxing out my setup on pump gas. Hopefully I make around 550rwhp or more. THEN... I will have another tune setup for race gas which I will max out my whole setup and shoot for 800-900rwhp... what is so weird and unattainable about that?


You don't need 4.5-5.0L to use the S372 or a V8, contrary to popular belief. Although, an S372 on a VH45DE powered 240sx would be awesome if you could get it to fit in the engine bay...i'm sure is possible with enough fabricating, time and money.

And once again, yes my CP piston'd, Carillo Rod'd, built to the hilt KA24DE-T S372R will be daily driven with a/c and make 500-600rwhp on low boost pump gas setting, and 800-900rwhp on race gas. Then my VH45DE track car with its adequate 300-350rwhp will be track oriented but also street driven. If both cars fail me I have a 2008 Titan crew cab that I can safely tow both cars back home in the event of a problem lol... what is the big deal? Why can't you just say thats awesome or best of luck? lol, b/c every build has to have a hater or something wrong with the setup... We all have different intentions with our builds, which mine are def feasible.

Lets face the facts though, I wouldn't be going thru all this effort let alone money if it wasn't going to work. Its also amazing what Haltech can do for a setup like mine. I've spoke to KA24DE engine builders, and borg warner dealers even the 240sx community, it will work and there is always going to be someone who disagrees such as yourself b/c it doesn't make sense...lol. Don't you worry though David everything will work out.

[milenkogt]

New question, is it true that the VK45DE heads will fit on the VH45DE?

I have searched and found that yes they will and no they won't, but neither ''yes''/''no'' statement gave detail on how or why they did not bolt up.

Thanks guys!

[milenkogt]

So it looks like you just made 6 posts to advertise ^.

KA-Ts are great, welcome

Gerry if/when I have to pull my motor again, I'll be buying your heads.

Advertise? lol, I wish...only if I was getting paid.

I figured I'd post up pics and specs on a product, sometimes people don't believe what they read/hear until they see proof.

It is a very interesting product though.

[David Steele]

I appreciate you determination, but dude seriously its ok... everything will work out. I will post videos as well. Its not impractical, impossible or silly lol. You don't have to believe me, people don't believe what they don't understand. Ignorance and negativity is the general morale on most automotive forums.

You're talking about yourself lets keep the personal talk to a void no one is worried about you in such a way, now if you came in here searched around you wouldn't ask 99 percent of the questions you did in this thread.

Power goal for the VH45de is around 300-330rwhp. Why does it matter what the VH45DE makes? I stated i don't need 800rwhp, so apparently its not a drag car, and you don't need that kind of power to drift or to race in certain classes for SCCA lol. Just saying...

''lol just saying''

No.

You don't require any major work done to extract 350whp to this engine.

The ka24de will be fine at those power levels, its been done many times

No.

The S372 will work just fine on a 2.4L even on 15psi,The compressor map on an S372R starts at 15psi and I will be running either a .90 or 1.10 a/r with the quick spool valve. The lead tech at Bullseye power stated that I would be fine with what i'm doing lol. I do enjoy your input though, as your above statements will be proven wrong, i'm sorry but its the truth. I'm going to run a 93 octane pump gas tune ranging from 15-17psi or whatever psi that will be maxing out my setup on pump gas. Hopefully I make around 550rwhp or more. THEN... I will have another tune setup for race gas which I will max out my whole setup and shoot for 800-900rwhp... what is so weird and unattainable about that?

The ''lead tech'' also omits a lot because it's none of his business.

You don't need 4.5-5.0L to use the S372 or a V8, contrary to popular belief. Although, an S372 on a VH45DE powered 240sx would be awesome if you could get it to fit in the engine bay...i'm sure is possible with enough fabricating, time and money.

You're in the VH45DE section if you don't want this much input then you then its a good idea to omit other setups in here that aren't of the VH.

And once again, yes my CP piston'd, Carillo Rod'd, built to the hilt KA24DE-T S372R will be daily driven with a/c and make 500-600rwhp on low boost pump gas setting, and 800-900rwhp on race gas. Then my VH45DE track car with its adequate 300-350rwhp will be track oriented but also street driven. If both cars fail me I have a 2008 Titan crew cab that I can safely tow both cars back home in the event of a problem lol... what is the big deal? Why can't you just say thats awesome or best of luck? lol, b/c every build has to have a hater or something wrong with the setup... We all have different intentions with our builds, which mine are def feasible.

Lets face the facts though, I wouldn't be going thru all this effort let alone money if it wasn't going to work. Its also amazing what Haltech can do for a setup like mine. I've spoke to KA24DE engine builders, and borg warner dealers even the 240sx community, it will work and there is always going to be someone who disagrees such as yourself b/c it doesn't make sense...lol. Don't you worry though David everything will work out.

This guy is hyping up him self ... a new low.

I've commented on your wild goals there isn't a need me to continue.

Do some research since, obviously you don't do that Chrispy said no to you already do you really need to know why? It's a different engine. No one here on this club has ever claimed for the VK heads fitting on a VH nor are they better I haven't a clue why you'd want to install those heads on this engine.


Maybe if you realized what you were saying you'd think you realize how ridiculous you sound.

Post #1

1. Will the VH45DE heads fit on the VK56DE?

Post #12

New question, is it true that the VK45DE heads will fit on the VH45DE?

[91z]

Ok, I think this might be why we are getting tripped up. You are talking about a "street only" car with race gas and rwd. 700-800whp is useless on the streets. Ive ridden in a handful of cars with that type of power, with drag slicks for a quick burst down the road. No traction whatsoever until illegal speeds. Hell, Ive ridden in cars with ~600 that couldnt get traction until 70ish. So, a 700+hp "street car" doest really make sense. Regardless of the turbo or motor, with rwd on street roads, its pointless. So no race gas or race tune needed. Then you have the vh45, which has a great power band, plenty of torque down low, and is inexpensive. That to me sounds much more like a "street car". It would be an amazing daily driver and great at scca with its broad power band.

Come to think of it, some 700+hp cars cant even get traction on a nicely prepped track!!