vk56de/vk45de frankenstien engine in an M45???

[newtonissans]

You boys seem to be quite knowledgeable about your M's...

I own a motorsports shop dealing (up to now) with mostly american/german cars. I had a 2003 M45 come it recently for a custom dual exhaust. No problem... done... customer loved it, sounds great etc...

When he was leaving he proposed the idea of getting more power out of his M. There really are no aftermarket parts available for these, so I looked to different factory parts. the VK engine family seems to have alot of power potential in the vk56de short block, with its forged crank, cross bolted mains, and increased bore and stroke. but it doesn't have variable valve timing and a few other good power features of the vk45de.

Heres the question... Is anyone hear first hand familiar with both the vk56de and the vk45de (on a technician level)? essentially, I would like to know if the short block from the vk56de can be used with the vk45de heads, intake, cams, etc? Would everything physically bolt together? are all the timing chain tensioners, chains etc the same?

Thus to get the added strength, and volume of the larger engine, while maintaining the powerband and driving characteristics that the variable valve timing and different intake style offer.

Also, if anyone knows of any performance mods or aftermarket companies that make them for this engine please let me know. Especially ecu related. like retuning etc.

[ClutchKick]

weither or not the parts are going to bolt up, I can not tell you...

I have a Short block for a Y34 / F50 sitting 10 feet away from me... Its in the box so I cant really take any measure ments... When its time to install it, Ill see what I can find...

Checking part numbers:

Bare Block between VK56 / 45 are different numbersHead Gaskets different numberCylinder Heads different numberetc etc...

Front cover etc etc... I dont think things are going to line up...

Now... What I was thinking about doing on my car...

Y50 M45 Upper Intake Manifold down to the cylinder heads on a Y34/F50 VK... The part numbers for the gaskets are the same, so the ports should line up, I hope the angles are the same... they should be... throttle chamber will have to be re-located to the front with a longer cable and possibly an adapter plate...

Before I go ordering new parts to put together a kit for resale... I was going to try with junk yard parts... Havent had the time to get to work on the idea yet unfortunatly...

[lswaidz]

You don't have any pics or pricing on that install for the exhaust on the M45, do you?

[newtonissans]

Unfortunately, my camera was dead at the time, so no pics. But the total bill was $1100 including labor. That's all T-304 stainless 2.5 inch pipe, polished stainless magnaflow mufflers, and dual polished dual tip slant cut tips exiting behind the rear wheels.

[newtonissans]

The cylinder head part numbers I would expect different for different valve sizes/ with and without variable valve timing etc...

The blocks, I guessed different part numbers due to different bores...

The front cover, different possibly due to accessory drive bolt boss differences (different chassis, different accessory locations)...

The head gasket could be a killer though...

Clutchkick, I'm assuming you work for a nissan/infiniti dealer here...could you possibly check the part numbers for the front cover gasket rather than the cover itself...

And also, and this is a stretch... If you happen to have the two different head gaskets in stock, could you possibly have them pull both parts and compare them??? (I worked for a ford dealer at one point and their gaskets come in clear plastic, so maybe you can compare without opening).

Also, Thank you for the info you already supplied, I do appreciate it.

[newtonissans]

Anyone know of anyplace that does PCM reflashes on these infinitis???

I am considering taking on the project of installing a supercharger on this one... If i get a procharger P1-SC blower alone, I should be able to fabricate all of the bracketry and tubing to make it physically work, but I will still need to get the pcm reflashed... The maf will compensate for a portion of airflow but not that much......

[impreziv]

a respectable Japanese tuning group named Impul, recently put togather a Nissan Fuga (Infiniti M45), and they increased displacement to 5.1L

it is a VK45 block, with a custom crankshaft (stoke is 87.5mm, halfway between the 45 and 56 engines). they also increased the compression slightly.

being that it was made by a japanese company, the power is only 380ps (~370hp). Im not saying the japanese arent good at making power, im just saying that japanese shops have to follow strict emission and noise laws for their custom work (all work has to be recognized officially).

im confidant with headwork, cams, and increase of compression, someone could make around 380hp on the VK45 stock stroke. increasing bore and stroke to make 5.1L, and adding those same mods, im sure someone could make alot more.

problem is aftermarket cams dont yet exist for the VK heads.

[auditech10]

And the Impul kit was 10 grand +. So 30hp for 10 grand..... ??? Its time for someone to put together a centrifugal charger, there should be plenty of room in the engine bay.To the original poster, when comparing two engines, one having variable valve timing and the other not, more than likely the majority of the components will be different. And also I think the way to go will be a stand alone engine management system.Good luck

[ClutchKick]

Ill see what I have instock gasket wise... I can order them and have them for monday if need be... i do this kind of stuff all the time... Alot of the G35 factory mods, well...

Ill get some info together for you...

[lswaidz]

So the exhaust was similar to the old RA4 GTO? That seems a little weird considering the 2-on-the-left setup out of the factory... did you have to do custom work to re-do the lower fascia? I'm just wanting to eliminate the resonator and add a couple of super-40 mufflers... nothing crazy. I've been quoted over $2000 for that alone...

[newtonissans]

Thanks to everyone for the info

Thanks to clutchkick for the extra effort. I appreciate it

As far as the exhaust went, it was a white car, with the lower part black, so you don't even notice the empty exhaust cutout... I specifically asked if he would like it filled, he wasn't concerned so I left it... I am not really too familiar with your gto reference, but I will be posting pics soon.

Also, $2000 is totally ridiculous for exhaust work, unless you are paying for engine back (meaning headers). I could never charge a customer that much and sleep well at night. I have a feeling that price was given simply because of the price of the car... but pipes are pipes, it doesnt matter if it's a ferrari, or a pinto, it all welds the same. The exhaust on these are fairly simple soooooo......

[lswaidz]

I couldn't find an image of the Ram Air 4, but I found it's cousin, the Ram Air 6 (which is a sick, sick car)...

http://automobile.2405.com/aut...5.jpg

I honestly think I'm just going to drop this car off at Car-X some day and give them $1000 and say have fun... that quote was from the Nissan Stealership where I live. Which I think they were just going to take it to a muffler shop anyway.

[auditech10]

I hope nobody is planning to put an exhaust like that on an M45!! I think a single tip on each side would look OK but only OK at best

[newtonissans]

Similar tips, but not positioned like that, that looks ridiculous. When I finally get the pics up here for you guys, I bet you'll like it. It really looks tasteful.

[sr79labrat]

A few questions....

Would anyone be interested in lightweight pullies? I am guessing we would get 10whp/ftlbs min at the wheels and 1-2 more mpg. I did a set on the 91-95 Acura Legend so.....lets do it for our M45s. A 4 pully set on the Legend went for $440 shipped. Anything else is easy to cospy as well so just let me know!

Any dyno #ers on the dual exhaust? I want to do it, but only if I get more hp, mpg and keep the sound level down. Was it mandrel bent or did I miss that above?

BTW-They are using the M45 engine in 350Z for NA races. I saw this in Superstreet so it could mean anything. Oh, and Stillen does make a SC for the newer 5.6L(is this right?) V8 for the Armada or something....I called to confirm it will not cross fit with the M45. It was a service guy so who knows?

Hope this helps! Thanks in advance for a reply! Kyle

[newtonissans]

no dyno numbers yet, maybe soon... no promises. Only thing is i don't have a baseline run (meaning before doing the exhaust). It was only cat-back (yes mandrel bent) so I don't expect any serious power gains although I was told it feels "stronger" in the upper rpm. and exhibits better acceleration above 100mph. It was done purely for style and sound in this case though.

as for the supercharger, I do believe that they have them for the 5.6's. If i'm not mistaken there is a Nismo package on one of them that includes the SC. But the top end of the 5.6 is drastically different from that of the 4.5, so I wouldnt expect it to fit...

I still think that with minimal machine work/ a 5.6L short block should be able to be used with 4.5L heads, and intake etc... but I am not familiar enough with them to say for sure... this is purely from research that I have done on these two engines and my previous experience with ford engine family similarities (and chevy as well).

[sr79labrat]

It would be great to see some numbers on that M45 just to see if there is a gap in numbers from us compared to him. I think that may be my next mod. I want to dyno test all mods I do. I think that is the only way to do it...unless it really does not matter performace wise.

A 5.6L would be awesome! I am not sure it the numbers look better than ours, but they probably could with tunning ect. We will have to look deeper into this for sure. The 4.5L feels tight and pretty quick. I think a tad bit of FI would go a long ways!

Cheerio, Kyle

[bishop1]

I was wondering what ever happened to the idea for a light weight pully set.

[sr79labrat]

I can still do them! I actually would love to do them! It would be really awesome to do a few sets of these. I would think 10whp at the low end. If we are going to start this back up then you can see the ones that I did for the Legend....here is the link if you have myspace.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.co...81060

Let me know what you think....Lets do this!Kyle

[auditech10]

Food for thought, why not just make a few sets first then put them for sale. You could even do a before and after dyno and I can gaurantee that you will have no problem getting rid of them.D

[sr79labrat]

That is really expensive for me. I learned that from the Legend pulleys. The first set alone is usually 1000.00-2000.00! Maybe when I have cash I will do it.....who knows!

I will post upates if I do proceed with this.KTW