VH45DE mated to T56

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maxnix
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VH45DE mated to T56

Postby maxnix » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:59 am

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/563982

Someone has made the adapter plate. All a G50 owner has to do is find the room for the clutch sylinder and the clutch pedal. Well, mostly.




Modified by maxnix at 5:13 AM 3/24/2005


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Re: VH45DE mated to T56 (maxnix)

Postby Jeff Williams » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:42 am

There are some new shifters for the GM 5 ans 6 speed tranny, that move the shifter anywhere within about 12" and give you a short-throw shifter. This will take all the problems out of modifying the console.

I saw the ad in my Street Rodder magazine.

With a smaller brake pedal head, and a hot-rod style clutch pedal, this could fly.

I don't think I want a 5 or 6 speed tranny in my Q, though. I would rather use the adapter, to install a hearty 5 speed automatic.

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Re: VH45DE mated to T56 (Jeff Williams)

Postby elwesso » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:45 am

Holy domestics batman!!!

I dream of a 6 speed Q45...

The clutch master cylinder could go in the drivers side panel and you could easily (I use that loosely) cut and modify that area for a clutch.....

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Re: VH45DE mated to T56 (Jeff Williams)

Postby maxnix » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:52 am

Jeff Williams wrote: I don't think I want a 5 or 6 speed tranny in my Q, though. I would rather use the adapter, to install a hearty 5 speed automatic.
Maybe with the programmable TCU in my other post you could get the Toyota 6 speed auto? I bet the adapter is specific to the T56, though.

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Postby Jesda » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:54 am

Didnt read his entire cardomain page, but I hope chain guides dont fail on him.

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Re: (Jesda)

Postby elwesso » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:06 am

I think with a 6 speed you could get a G50 to be as fast as a M45.. Maybe.....

Gear Ratios:First 2.97:1, Second 2.07:1, Third 1.43:1, Forth 1.00:1, Fifth 0.80:1, Sixth 0.62:1, Reverse 3.28:1

Ive been finding a l

Really these gear ratios are PERFECT.. It gives us a taller 1st gear, the 2nd gear we've always needed..... 3rd and 4th are VERY similar to 2nd and 3rd in the stock Q (so we wouldnt lose any highway power).. 5th really doesnt do much for us, may be a good gear to cruise around town, and 6th will have us slightly lower RPMs at cruise..... PLus you wouldnt have to have a 4.08...

Holy crap, maybe this could actually work??????? If you could actualy get it installed and working right, it would really be perfect...

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby maxnix » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:58 am

elwesso wrote:Really these gear ratios are PERFECT.. It gives us a taller 1st gear, the 2nd gear we've always needed..... 3rd and 4th are VERY similar to 2nd and 3rd in the stock Q (so we wouldnt lose any highway power).. 5th really doesnt do much for us, may be a good gear to cruise around town, and 6th will have us slightly lower RPMs at cruise..... PLus you wouldnt have to have a 4.08...

Holy crap, maybe this could actually work??????? If you could actualy get it installed and working right, it would really be perfect...
Quit it, Wes. Not going to think about it. Will not. Not going to do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

Sure, it would smoke an M45. About 2200 rpm at 75 mph, would you say?
Modified by maxnix at 8:20 AM 3/24/2005

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Re: (maxnix)

Postby elwesso » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:44 pm

I got to looking and theres a LOT of T56's... I wonder if theyre all the same and you just swap bellhousings or what..... Lots of different gear ratio's to be had.....

Using the gear ratio's i just posted would give us this

MPH CalculatorRPM 1 2 3 4 5 6

900 6.5 9.4 13.6 19.4 24.3 31.31100 8.0 11.5 16.6 23.7 29.7 38.31300 9.4 13.6 19.6 28.1 35.1 45.31500 10.9 15.6 22.6 32.4 40.5 52.21700 12.4 17.7 25.7 36.7 45.9 59.21900 13.8 19.8 28.7 41.0 51.3 66.12100 15.3 21.9 31.7 45.3 56.7 73.12300 16.7 24.0 34.7 49.6 62.0 80.12500 18.2 26.1 37.7 54.0 67.4 87.02700 19.6 28.2 40.7 58.3 72.8 94.02900 21.1 30.2 43.8 62.6 78.2 100.93100 22.5 32.3 46.8 66.9 83.6 107.93300 24.0 34.4 49.8 71.2 89.0 114.93500 25.4 36.5 52.8 75.5 94.4 121.83700 26.9 38.6 55.8 79.9 99.8 128.83900 28.3 40.7 58.9 84.2 105.2 135.84100 29.8 42.7 61.9 88.5 110.6 142.74300 31.2 44.8 64.9 92.8 116.0 149.74500 32.7 46.9 67.9 97.1 121.4 156.64700 34.2 49.0 70.9 101.4 126.8 163.64900 35.6 51.1 74.0 105.8 132.2 ----5100 37.1 53.2 77.0 110.1 137.6 ----5300 38.5 55.3 80.0 114.4 143.0 ----5500 40.0 57.3 83.0 118.7 148.4 ----5700 41.4 59.4 86.0 123.0 153.8 ----5900 42.9 61.5 89.0 127.3 159.2 ----6100 44.3 63.6 92.1 131.7 164.6 ----6300 45.8 65.7 95.1 136.0 ---- ----6500 47.2 67.8 98.1 140.3 ---- ----6700 48.7 69.9 101.1 144.6 ---- ----6900 50.1 71.9 104.1 148.9 ---- ----7100 51.6 74.0 107.2 153.2 ---- ----7300 53.0 76.1 110.2 157.6 ---- ----7500 54.5 78.2 113.2 161.9 ---- ----

That seems pretty close to golden...

So if I understand it correctly redlining these gears would be

1-2 shift would occur at 53MPH, and then you would go to about 5300RPM, then at the 2-3 at 76MPH you would go to about 5100 till about 110, then you should easily be able to top the car out in 3rd gear

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby elwesso » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:14 pm

For reference heres some more website with good information

http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/6_speed.html

http://www.hpsalvage.com/specs.htm


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Re: (elwesso)

Postby nissanforlife » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:39 pm

elwesso wrote:I got to looking and theres a LOT of T56's... I wonder if theyre all the same and you just swap bellhousings or what..... Lots of different gear ratio's to be had.....

Using the gear ratio's i just posted would give us this

MPH CalculatorRPM 1 2 3 4 5 6

900 6.5 9.4 13.6 19.4 24.3 31.31100 8.0 11.5 16.6 23.7 29.7 38.31300 9.4 13.6 19.6 28.1 35.1 45.31500 10.9 15.6 22.6 32.4 40.5 52.21700 12.4 17.7 25.7 36.7 45.9 59.21900 13.8 19.8 28.7 41.0 51.3 66.12100 15.3 21.9 31.7 45.3 56.7 73.12300 16.7 24.0 34.7 49.6 62.0 80.12500 18.2 26.1 37.7 54.0 67.4 87.02700 19.6 28.2 40.7 58.3 72.8 94.02900 21.1 30.2 43.8 62.6 78.2 100.93100 22.5 32.3 46.8 66.9 83.6 107.93300 24.0 34.4 49.8 71.2 89.0 114.93500 25.4 36.5 52.8 75.5 94.4 121.83700 26.9 38.6 55.8 79.9 99.8 128.83900 28.3 40.7 58.9 84.2 105.2 135.84100 29.8 42.7 61.9 88.5 110.6 142.74300 31.2 44.8 64.9 92.8 116.0 149.74500 32.7 46.9 67.9 97.1 121.4 156.64700 34.2 49.0 70.9 101.4 126.8 163.64900 35.6 51.1 74.0 105.8 132.2 ----5100 37.1 53.2 77.0 110.1 137.6 ----5300 38.5 55.3 80.0 114.4 143.0 ----5500 40.0 57.3 83.0 118.7 148.4 ----5700 41.4 59.4 86.0 123.0 153.8 ----5900 42.9 61.5 89.0 127.3 159.2 ----6100 44.3 63.6 92.1 131.7 164.6 ----6300 45.8 65.7 95.1 136.0 ---- ----6500 47.2 67.8 98.1 140.3 ---- ----6700 48.7 69.9 101.1 144.6 ---- ----6900 50.1 71.9 104.1 148.9 ---- ----7100 51.6 74.0 107.2 153.2 ---- ----7300 53.0 76.1 110.2 157.6 ---- ----7500 54.5 78.2 113.2 161.9 ---- ----

That seems pretty close to golden...

So if I understand it correctly redlining these gears would be

1-2 shift would occur at 53MPH, and then you would go to about 5300RPM, then at the 2-3 at 76MPH you would go to about 5100 till about 110, then you should easily be able to top the car out in 3rd gear
maybe i'm crazy... but i'd like to see that with an 20% reduction...

it would put it at approximately 42 60 86 124 ??? ???with a cruise of 2500 @ 70 mph

wouldn't that also put us at a gud shift point for top speed .. put in the peak rpm's?

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The pieces are slowly coming together for the perfect Q.

Postby sijoko » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:35 pm

What can I say except that I am smiling as I type this. The T56 hooked up to a VH is almost the perfect solution.

When you look at the cost of getting a good rebuilt trans for the Q, then the T56 becomes viable. The only thing is details.


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Re: The pieces are slowly coming together for the perfect Q. (sijoko)

Postby maxnix » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:57 pm

sijoko wrote:When you look at the cost of getting a good rebuilt trans for the Q, then the T56 becomes viable. The only thing is details.
Aye, I've been thinking about reangled brake pedal levers and custom fabricated clutch levers, and floor pan configuration adn firewall penetration. Haven't even got to the clutch master cylindr mounting nor the custom driveshaft.

The details done correctly are not cheap.

Still 6MT G50 might be a good vanity plate.

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Postby sijoko » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:05 pm

What do you think the chances are that the pedal assembly from the Z32 might bolt up to the Q?

Anyway, the worst case scenario is you would have to have the pedals custom fabricated or maybe even use the pre-fab units designed for Hot Rods.


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Re: (sijoko)

Postby elwesso » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:15 am

How do you define "bolt up"?

Your going to have to drill into the firewall anyway!

I think if you could find a new way to jerry rig the parking brake, you could move that big assembly out of there and mount the clutch there.....

The problem is theres a lot of electronics there..... I dont have anything to do this afternoon so ill take some measurements.....

What we need to do is have somone measure the Q tranny from bellhousing to tailshaft and see how it measures..... This weekend im going up to the old Q so I can measure the distances between where the shifter is to the beginning of the tunnel... Ill measure the tranny as well unless someone can do it sooner...

The clutch master cylinder can go in the active cooler location... I saw on the CTS-V it was in a similar place (up front)....

Custom driveshaft wouldnt really be a big deal.. IF we could find a 2 piece driveshaft where the keyway fits, someone could take that first piece and make the rest work..... I dont see that as a problem.....

Doesnt seem like shifter is going to be a problem unless its going to be way off... If we can get it within a foot then we can use a shift kit...

Then we have to worry about rear mounting... Most likely just have to drill new holes, and fortunately it would most likely be under the center console so that is good.....

I wish Icould find an animator that we could input the gear ratios and then tell it when to shift, and we could then see the shift points... Find all the trannies that would be good and then decide on the best gears...

I think personally Id rather have the MT rather than the SC and stuff.....

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby elwesso » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:07 pm

I found another gear set for the T56 and this will give us slightly better gearing... It would put us at better shift points, closer to peak torque (4100 1-2shift RPM)

Ratios: 3.36, 2.07, 1.35, 1.00, 0.8, 0.62

MPH CalculatorRPM 1 2 3 4 5 6900 5.3 9.2 14.2 19.1 23.9 30.91100 6.4 11.3 17.3 23.4 29.2 37.71300 7.6 13.4 20.5 27.6 34.5 44.61500 8.8 15.4 23.6 31.9 39.9 51.41700 10.0 17.5 26.8 36.1 45.2 58.31900 11.1 19.5 29.9 40.4 50.5 65.22100 12.3 21.6 33.1 44.6 55.8 72.02300 13.5 23.6 36.2 48.9 61.1 78.92500 14.6 25.7 39.4 53.2 66.4 85.72700 15.8 27.7 42.5 57.4 71.8 92.62900 17.0 29.8 45.7 61.7 77.1 99.43100 18.2 31.8 48.8 65.9 82.4 106.33300 19.3 33.9 52.0 70.2 87.7 113.23500 20.5 35.9 55.1 74.4 93.0 120.03700 21.7 38.0 58.3 78.7 98.3 126.93900 22.8 40.1 61.4 82.9 103.6 133.74100 24.0 42.1 64.6 87.2 109.0 140.64300 25.2 44.2 67.7 91.4 114.3 147.54500 26.4 46.2 70.9 95.7 119.6 154.34700 27.5 48.3 74.0 99.9 124.9 161.24900 28.7 50.3 77.2 104.2 130.2 ----5100 29.9 52.4 80.3 108.4 135.5 ----5300 31.0 54.4 83.5 112.7 140.9 ----5500 32.2 56.5 86.6 116.9 146.2 ----5700 33.4 58.5 89.8 121.2 151.5 ----5900 34.6 60.6 92.9 125.4 156.8 ----6100 35.7 62.7 96.1 129.7 162.1 ----6300 36.9 64.7 99.2 133.9 ---- ----6500 38.1 66.8 102.4 138.2 ---- ----6700 39.2 68.8 105.5 142.5 ---- ----6900 40.4 70.9 108.7 146.7 ---- ----7100 41.6 72.9 111.8 151.0 ---- ----7300 42.8 75.0 115.0 155.2 ---- ----7500 43.9 77.0 118.1 159.5 ---- ----

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby nissanforlife » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:13 pm

any estimates on power to the wheel gain there might be with a manual swap?

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Re: (nissanforlife)

Postby elwesso » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:01 pm

I wouldnt count on any HP increase (however thered have to be some) but the better gearing would allow us to take full advantage of the great engine we already have in the Q.

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby Black95Q » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:25 pm

I would think that a manual swap would free up a significant amount of rwhp without that huge torque converter. Also dramatically reducing our extended shift times would be a plus. But like you said the real gain would be in the ratios.

If it would all hold together, the gains should outweigh the hassle.

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Re: (Black95Q)

Postby nissanforlife » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:41 pm

i know thats there's a lot to be gained with closer gearing and having a manual to put it at the power range and quick shifts.. that alone would be sweet.. launches would be much more fun.. but i was still thinking it would free up some wheel power.. (i know it doesn't add power.. just less reduction at wheel).. does the t-56 come with a lightweight flywheel or is it an option? (doesn't have to be super light.. but quick rev would sound great.. haha)

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Re: (nissanforlife)

Postby Black95Q » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:02 pm

Exactlty.... thats what i was saying about the torque converter in automatics sucking up so much HP. A manual should just free up hp, but of course it all depends on the automatic coming out and the manual going in.

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Re: (Black95Q)

Postby nissanforlife » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:19 pm

probably goes without saying. . but i'll say anywayz..

this should take care of any issues with transmission reliability...

(any idea wut this would cost?.. estimate.. i know that there's a lot more that needs figured out first)

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Re: (nissanforlife)

Postby elwesso » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:08 am

I wouldnt even begin to think about the costs... You can get a T56 for like $2000

Surely it would free up some HP...

Remember since we have to have an adapter made we have to have a custom flywheel made.....


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Re: (elwesso)

Postby maxnix » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:26 am

elwesso wrote:Remember since we have to have an adapter made we have to have a custom flywheel made.....
Driveshaft, brake and clutch levers, cylinder mount for the clutch, console reconfiguration, engineering the shift linkage, maybe new transmission mount, maybe emergency brake relocation. The cost is not insignificant to do it right.

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Re: (maxnix)

Postby elwesso » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:45 am

maxnix wrote:Driveshaft, brake and clutch levers, cylinder mount for the clutch, console reconfiguration, engineering the shift linkage, maybe new transmission mount, maybe emergency brake relocation. The cost is not insignificant to do it right.
I think the E brake is something that could wait..... We could either just leave the pedal in palce or rig up some cable to it so you pull on it.. Itd be kind of ghetto and not as cool as having a lever to pull but itd work..

Still, i wonder about the possibilty of leaving the Ebrake in the same general area and somehow rigging that for a clutch pedal.....

I got to looking around and maybe a custom brake and clutch pedal like this.



That is, if we cant get something seperate to work, always seems easier just to add one thing...



Master cylinder shouldnt be that big of a deal... This little guy should be able to go about anywhere.....



Looks like Wilwood could be our savior?

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby maxnix » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:41 am

elwesso wrote:Still, i wonder about the possibilty of leaving the Ebrake in the same general area and somehow rigging that for a clutch pedal.....
The floor panel contour makes that area underneath it unusable for anything else, besides a foot rest. Might as well leave it.

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Postby sijoko » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:56 am

In reference to the flywheel, the one from the Z32 TT will bolt up. The clutch pedal can fit with the parking brake as is.

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Re: (sijoko)

Postby elwesso » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:05 am

sijoko wrote:In reference to the flywheel, the one from the Z32 TT will bolt up. The clutch pedal can fit with the parking brake as is.
Yeah but how will the Z32 flywheel mate with the T56 tranny.. What would you have to have to make that wokr???

I really wouldnt see much wrong with a 4 pedal setup, kind of ghetto but what wouldnt be ghetto with this setup.....

Are you saying the Z32 pedal would bolt up with relaive ease to the Q?

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Re: (elwesso)

Postby maxnix » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:16 am

elwesso wrote:
Yeah but how will the Z32 flywheel mate with the T56 tranny.. What would you have to have to make that wokr???
The guy who did the converter plate would know.

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Postby sijoko » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:50 am

The flywheel is not what connects the engine to the trans. It is the clutch. The solution is to have a custom clutch made that has the splines for the T56 and the bolt pattern for the Z32 flywheel.

As far as the pedal assembly, I have no concrete ideas.

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Postby one ton garage » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:09 am

A lot of muscle car guys have been performing T56 swaps, most notably into old camaros/firebirds. They tend to end up using the T56s from later camaros, and there are now even kits that make the swap easier for them... so that would be the best place to look to for more info on adapting a similar setup into the Q. The clutch is actually not too difficult... as it IS the part that mates to the transmission's input shaft, but the part of the clutch assy that bolts to the flywheel is actually the pressure plate. So you'd actually want to get the correct pressure plate for a given flywheel, and then get a clutch disk with the correct spline pattern for your transmission, and in a diameter that will work with the pressure plate/flywheel assy. Tremec is actually now making a new generation of aftermarket T5s and T56s that are geared towards the enthusiast looking to adapt the trannies into various diy applications, so that's another good resource to check out..


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