VH45DE Front cover removal

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Gentlemen: I am working on my 1994 Q45 and I am having difficuulties removing the engine front cover. All front cover bolts are already removed but I can not get it out 'cause it is locked in place.

Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Richard Rodriguez,

[ScottJackson]

If you're SURE you've got all the bolts out (there's two that are not easily found) then you can use a hammer and chisel just to the left of the water pump to pop it free. That's what I do. However, there's supposedly pry points that make the hammer/chisel not needed.

[Q45tech]

Why are you removing the front cover as the chains can last 300k+ on 94 with updated guides?

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Q45tech.MY car began to heatup, I stop to check water level and found that the water pump seal was damaged. I install a new pump crank the engine. it started for a few seconds it made a noise and stopped. I tried to restart and after about three turns it did not run. I thought the timing chain had jumped out of timing. thats why I am trying to see if the guides are ok and verify if the chains are in alignment

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ScottJanckson, thank you for your quick response

Using chiesel and hammer I was able to pop out the front cover and notice the left chain has a little slack whick leads me to believe that there has been a jump causing the timing to go off. This the best I can express my alledge findings since I am just an amateaur in this field.

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I also wish to express my appreciation for your valued reply. I believe the timing is off due to the slack in the left chain. I am in position to remove but first I have to deal with a little upstruction from the power steering pump. I'll deal with it tomorrow, right now my 75 years are catchimg up to me.

[PopPop]

Please keep in mind that at certain points/ positions of the pistons and valve opening and closing that you will have slack in chains.

[ScottJackson]

word. Just because there's "some" slack in the chains doesn't mean much of anything. The first thing to do in the case of the motor not wanting to crank is try GENTLY turning the crank manually by the big bolt in the balancer with a large socket. If it is hitting something, stop, pull the spark plugs and try again. It could have just dumped a lot of fuel in a cylinder due to a bad injector or O-ring. If the chains jumped enough to stop the engine from turning (valves hitting pistons) then a simple chain re-time won't do much good at this point. SOOOO, if you can, put that big bolt back in the front of the crank with some sort of spacer (could use the stock pulley or large nut) and try turning it with MINIMAL pressure on a breaker bar or 1/2" drive rachet. If she turns easily and a bunch of gas doesn't come out, put a compression tester on it and use the starter again. If you find some zero compression cylinders, you know you've got bent valves and it's either rebuild or new engine time.

Are the timing chain teeth sharp or squared on the ends? If they're needle sharp, the chains are very stretched and worn.

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The teeth are square but the slack in my nonexperience appreciation I believe is to much but I'll follow your suggestion to try and turn the cylinger manually but gentle to verify if there is some valve knocking or hitting something. I'll get back to you as soon as make this experiment.Thank you for your help. I'll be in touch

[ScottJackson]

If it feels very tight to turn the engine over, try loosening the water pump belt and make sure your new pump isn't seized up. Keep the updates coming and always follow the K.I.S.S. principle (keep it simple, supid) Actually, you may want to do that water pump belt thing before anything else.Oh wow, that's a serious brain fart I had. Of course there's no belts on it at this point. You would have noticed a seized water pump by now if that were the case. So just check the other pulleys to rule them out.

Modified by ScottJackson at 9:50 PM 7/8/2007
Modified by ScottJackson at 1:08 AM 7/9/2007

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Thats ok,T\The water pump is out and all pulleys are off at this point I am trying to take the cover completely out, there is the brackett of the power steering pump to deal with. I'll keep you posted as I make progress.

[ScottJackson]

ah, yes. That bracket on the steering pump needs removed. I think it's two 14mm bolts and a couple smaller ones also (been a while though so I'm not sure on this). So the cover isn't fully removed? Did the crank turn with the socket on the front bolt?

[[email protected]]

I have not done that yet. I am picking up some strength so a may continue to work on it. I'll continue to keep you posted as I progress.

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???? could the slack in either timing chain be tighten with the chain tensioner??

[ScottJackson]

I don't know exactly what you're asking, but yes, the tensioners keep the chains from getting too loose. Don't pull the driver side (left side when sitting in the car) tensioner before pulling the cover and putting zip ties on the chains. The driver side tensioner has those two 10mm nuts right by the valve cover and the tensioner will pop up with spring pressure when those nuts are removed. Even though the tensioners have springs in them, they are mainly hydraulic so the engine oil from the oil pump is what puts the most tension on the chains. When doing new chain guides, the tensioners must fill with oil before they fully function. So the chains rattle for a few seconds during the first start-up.

[[email protected]]

Ok. if you look at engine front, to the left side of the balancer there is a small cover that is held with 3 bolts. Taking those off you can see a part that in the mannual is called ( chain tensioner) that is the one I am refering to. The one you mention I am aware of your explanation. Today I will be taking the power steering pump off that small bolt and the large one are in difficult places to reach but will do

[ScottJackson]

yes, under that small cover is a tensioner for that chain. The tensioner for the other chain (right hand side as you look at the engine) is the one you can pull out without removing any cover. It has the two 10mm nuts near the top right hand side valve cover. Which chain is loose? Is it the left one as you look at the motor from the front or the right one? If the guides look ok (they should, since they are the newer style guides that don't have issues) then I very much doubt it was a timing chain issue.

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Yes is the left side chain tensioner. My ? is, is that tensioner meant to adjust any slack gain in that side chain due to whatever reason? I mean in a way that it is not cause by anything else but just a jump in timing.

[ScottJackson]

yes, that tensioner pushes against the guide and that takes up the slack on one side of the chain. On engines that actually do jump time, the cause is always (or nearly always) the straight guide on the RIGHT side (as you look at the engine from the front) which fails and allows the chain to go loose for a moment and jump teeth. It isn't because of the curved slack side guides which are pushed by the tensioners. To be honest, I very much doubt that this is the reason you engine quit. It's possible (just as it's possible the Earth will explode before I post this message) that was the case, but highly unlikely. The reasons are because it's a '94 and they have the good guides which don't fail, the chain gears are in good condition which means the chain isn't stretched, and even when they do jump on the earlier cars it happens on the opposite side of the engine.

Removing and re-installing the front cover is NOT a fun job (as you know) and I would make SURE that I've eliminated all other possibilities before diving into that, especially on a '94 Q. I'd check the pulleys to make sure it's not a bearing in the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, or A/C clutch that's locking up. Then if that checks ok, I'd try turning it by hand with a socket and ratchet first with the spark plugs in, and then with them all pulled out. Then, I'd check the starter to make sure it's not the gear sticking to the flywheel and seized up. I'd also make sure there's nothing wedged in the bellhousing to catch the flywheel (flexplate). This is assuming that the trans fluid is good, oil is good, and that it didn't get seriously overheated. All it takes is one good overheating to kill one of these aluminum engines. If none of that turns up anything, then I would pull the front cover, but that's only to confirm the worst fear because if it was valves hitting pistons, it's rebuild time. I had a chain jump on my '91 but it didn't make any strange noises and it still ran ok. It just had a chop to the idle and lost a lot of power. I'm pretty sure I got lucky with that one and it didn't jump more than 1 tooth. If it jumps enough to make a noise and then kill the engine, it's definately terminal.

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Wow. This time you really push the pedal to the metal. I mean you just gave me a lot to think about. Never the less your suggestions sound kosher and I'll go the various ways you point out. I am 75 years young and I need to take short steps at a time so will probably be a little longer on this subject that we might have hope for. However I am trully greatful and and very appreciative of your guidance. 'tlll the next chapter.

[maxnix]

If tensioners are not kosher, consider replacing them.

Oil pump chain is usually replaced also as it is inexpensive and most people don't want to return to this in the future.

You will need to crank somethin like 278 ft. lb. of torque on the crank nut when you finish, so plan ahead.

[[email protected]]

Thank you for your intervention. After verifying your suggestion I'll give it a shot and will get back with my assesment. Please bare in mind that I am not to technical in this field. and that is why I am looking for all the help I can get to get the job done.

[ScottJackson]

Heh, if I'm working on a car like the Q when I'm 75, I think I'd be doing quite well to keep up with things.

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Well, at this point in my life I am thankfull I can still hold my own. My goal is 100 doing like I am doing today hopefully. I Thank God. for all the things He has let me have and for those He will still allow me to have.Later gater

[ScottJackson]

Any updates?