VH45DE Displacement Increase

[SSDwellah]

I know a lot of you want to run NA so I had some questions for you. I searched for this topic but I didn't see what I was looking for. Anyway, has anyone looked into putting VK56DE pistons or crank into the VH45? They both would bring you to almost exactly 5.0L but I would prefer to bore instead of stroke so I could still get a good redline.

I don't know if Nissan changed the bore to bore spacing one the VK series, if they did the stroke option is definitely out of the question. But maybe the pistons would still fit if there is enough meat in the VH45 cylinder walls. Here are the specs.

VH45DE with VK56DE pistons98mm bore and 82.7mm stroke -> 4990cc

VH45DE with VK56DE crankshaft93mm bore and 92mm stroke -> 5000cc

I think the first option would be less work and you would still get the benefit of high RPM (note the VK56DE is rev-limited at 6000 RPM probably mostly due to stroke). Also, replacement cylinders for the VK56 are probably cheaper than the rip-off aftermarket prices I have been seeing for VH45 custom pistons. Has anyone tried this yet? If so, did you need custom sleeves? Are these available?

[gs14racer]

Question is what headgasket do you use with the vk56 pistons?

[Raxephon]

Question is what headgasket do you use with the vk56 pistons?

Custom-cut.I'm pretty sure, (99.9998%), the VK56DE gaskets won't line up for poo.

(Or anything else for that matter)

[gs14racer]

I got quoted 250 for custom gaskets, only problem is id have to buy 200 of them

[SSDwellah]

Good points, all of them. The other question is I have no idea what the static compression ratio will be after this. Does anyone else know for sure? I don't have enough specs on the VK56 to calculate this at the present time. It's still kind of a new engine. You can get a good estimate of the combustion chamber cc's from the advertised bore, stroke, and CR, but I won't know for sure without at least the compressed head gasket thickness.

We can assume a reasonable value for the compressed headgasket thickness like maybe .75-1mm but the only way to be correct is for someone to measure or RTFM. Does anyone have an FSM for the Titan V8?

Cometic should be able to make custom gaskets. I would think they already have a VH45DE gasket part number.

[tmorgan4]

As far as gaskets go, I would think that would be one of the "easy" final touches of the project. I would think that VH gaskets could just have the cylinder cutout enlarged by a shop fit to do so.

Has anyone looked into what John Dixon did? I remember reading about the engine he had built which was re-sleeved and somewhere around 5+ liters. I can't remember if the pistons were one-off or adapted from another vehicle. I think we all need to look into some of the modifications John Dixon has done since it seems like he's already got this figured out.

[tmorgan4]

Do you already have a compressed head gasket measurement for a VH? I think I could get one off mine pretty easily if you still need that.

[SuperHatch]

Has anyone looked into what John Dixon did? I remember reading about the engine he had built which was re-sleeved and somewhere around 5+ liters. I can't remember if the pistons were one-off or adapted from another vehicle. I think we all need to look into some of the modifications John Dixon has done since it seems like he's already got this figured out.

He used custom gaskets...

[T45]

His build is retardedley expensive, cool, sick and beautiful all in one. He probably has unobtanium head bolts and ukranium pistons.

[ultrapulse]

Yes the bore spacing is the same from VH to VK. I was on a titan site a while back, however couldnt find a crank. I would offer good money for a vk56 crankshaft if anyone here knows where there's one.My biggest issue with jap stuff has always been the size, so I thought if I could stretch it to say the same size as a 350ci I should start to get real torque but retain the obvious benefits of the VH. The local engine shop said that the rods may be too short as I'm supercharging my VH, and the fact that I couldnt find a crank led me to forgetting about this mod. We are still trying to go for a 4" bore to get around 5litres, however I'd still be keen on a crank...name your price if u have one....as we dont get that engine over here in fact I think its only the US market that gets the 5.6. I have just had a baby girl 2 weeks ago, hence my slow build. Still have done inlet mani, headers, mounted engine and box, bellhousing (t56) so main engineering bits done. But yes if anyone can find any info on crank swap I'm all ears!

[ultrapulse]

Some info I saved about the VK56. Treat this info as 'relatively' reliable as I dont listen to 'some guy said' info, but still cant gaurantee it:

Bore 98mm Stroke 92mm Crank main bearing dia. 63.95mm Crank rod bearing dia 53.96mm Rod length, C-C 154.5mm

Nissan Titan Pickup 5.6 2WD 04-05 VK56DE A60 -5,600 cc 5.6 liters V 8 front engine with 98 mm bore, 92 mm stroke, 9.8 compression ratio, double overhead cam and four valves per cylinder VK56DE -Unleaded fuel -Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 19 and EPA city (mpg): 13 -Multi-point injection fuel system -28 gallon main unleaded fuel tank -Power: 227 kW , 305 HP SAE @ 4,900 rpm; 385 ft lb , 522 Nm @ 3,600 rpm

http://www.titantalk.com/forum...=9361

A blokes work in puting a 56 into a 240z, has pics etc..http://www.flzclub.com/vk56de/
Modified by ultrapulse at 12:01 PM 12/25/2007

[perana]

hey mate i know of a vk56 motor if u want.i was gonna buy it a while back but chicken out.i did not want to strip such an expensive motor.its still there if u want i can hook you up.

[SSDwellah]

Thanks but I already have the VH running in my Z32 with the Z32 5-speed MT behind it. If your reply was meant for someone else like ultrapulse then no problem. But before we get too far off-topic I would like to keep this thread about displacement upgrades though. There may be other relatively inexpensive ways to up the VH45 displacement. I just offered the VK56 parts theory as a possible OEM supplier.

I am looking for power upgrades and I was trying to consider between forced induction or keeping it N/A. Obviously, when sticking with N/A, one way to make more power is upping the displacement. If there was compelling and reliable power to be made N/A then I probably wouldn't go turbo. Unfortunately I don't know if anyone has gone too far in the N/A realm with the VH45 series in USA. I know the VH41 is big in NZ and Aus but it doesn't quite have the same potential as something a little bit bigger in displacement (not to knock the 41 vs 45). Also I am looking for mods that will still result in a streetable and perhaps even daily drivable, reliable powerplant: not something that you have to rev the piss out of an rebuild even as "infrequently" as once per race season. That's too often for a street car IMHO

For me, compelling power is 400+ RWHP since the Z32 is significantly heavier than the S13s and 14s a lot of people here are using as their swap platform. Ultimately if I could make 450WHP and lighten the Z up a good bit then I would be pretty happy with the power to weight ratio and response N/A. This would be CF T-tops, racing seats, maybe CF rear hatch or doors, all CF would be painted of course since I don't like CF panels except MAYBE on a black car (mine is the ubiquitous nissan cherry red pearl).

So anyone know how to get a hold of John Dixon and ask him about VH45 sleeves? I am using his trans adapter and it seems to fit like a glove. No problems so far. Maybe I should talk to Flatlander Racing? They seem to have a lot of nissan rebuild and upgrade kits. Maybe they would be willing to make a VH45DE kit if people would put a deposit or something.

[Raxephon]

From the '04 Titan FSM

[SSDwellah]

Thanks for the info. It looks like VH and VK all had 112mm bore spacing, so at least that shouldn't be the stopping issue. I think the biggest hurdle is getting the right sleeves, because I am pretty sure just boring out the stock ones is risky. I don't have experience in this, but it just seems like boring out a sleeve that much rather than making a new one from more rigid material is asking for trouble.

[ultrapulse]

hey mate i know of a vk56 motor if u want.i was gonna buy it a while back but chicken out.i did not want to strip such an expensive motor.its still there if u want i can hook you up.

Yes that would be good!! What sort of money are we talking?

On the subject of engine displacement, a good big engine is always better than a good small engine Also u may have heard of a couple of people talking the 41 up over here in NZ and aussie v's the 45 I'd tend to disagree as from what ive seen for sale its about 50/50, its just that our stockcar and superstock class is limited to around 4litres.Also being closeish to japan and a long way from USA has in my view steered the newer petrolhead to hi-tech rice rockets in search of economical power. I am neither old or new school and back any good idea. BUT from experience if all else is equal then bigger is better. Basically my ideal VH would be as big as possible without stuffing the rod length. So what if its 'redline' is 500-1000rpm lower up top?, if you are making more power then who cares except your bearings (and everything else) will be happier. Also skids are easier if the engine is bigger Does anyone in the US know where I could shop around for a VK crank or engine? Thats only if the one perana mentioned is of a stupid price.

[John Dixon]

His build is retardedley expensive, cool, sick and beautiful all in one. He probably has unobtanium head bolts and ukranium pistons.

Lol, cheers! Let's just hope it works!!

My engine is stock stroke, 98mm bore. Static CR 12:1The sleeves were fitted and supplied by my engine builder but I can get a cost on them if you want. Should imagine in the US you can just source some close to the right size then have them honed out once they're fitted? Not sure what OD mine were but again, I can find out, should be on the spec sheet.My pistons and rods were custom made, as were the head gaskets, should be some pics on here in my previous threads. The gaskets were ferriday, he will still have the pattern and can make up one-off variations no problem - http://www.ferriday.co.uk/ think they cost around £250UK at the time, they're solid copper but he can also do multi-layer and different thicknesses.

[SSDwellah]

John,

First of all, kudos on the build! I'd be interested to see some videos on youtube.com or streefire.net when it's all said and done... and please don't skimp on the audio quality

I'd be interested on the cost of the sleeves/pistons if its not too much trouble. Even if its just to get an idea what it would cost if I were ever to become rich or get a big tax return next spring . Feel free to post information here since I am sure someone else will inevitably want to know.

Also, I wonder if I could get Flatlander Racing's import division to get interested in the VH. They've made some killer stroker kits for 4cyl Nissans (KA24DE 2.6L and SR20DET 2.4L). While I am not looking to stroke, I'll shoot them an email about getting sleeves and pistons and let you know what I get back. Here's a gratuitous link:

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

[perana]

hey ultrapulse the motor is $6000 its in exelent condition looks brand new,but its a monster.i cant belive how mutch higher it is than a vh45.if you want contact me [email protected].

[John Dixon]

The pistons were expensive! Had them done by Wossener as a one off set (slipper flat-top) then the valve reliefs were cut after a dummy build to measure the clearances. Again, they should have the spec on file but they were about £1750UK for the set I think. There are some pics on here somewhere, they are very lightweight vs the stock pistons.Will get some prices on the liners in the new year for you, the machining is I think the more expensive part of it though.

[riu]

http://www.courtesyparts.com/b...cat=1

heres a good place to start looking for a Titan 5.6 crank

Given the available/developed and parts in development. is 450rwhp feasible in a VH Z32?

Nico Ecu + Mettler Cams + GTiR Valvetrain? + intake + custom headers + custom exhaust.

i've been discussing options with friends as well regarding upping compression or displacement, but every option discussed generally leads back to keeping the build simple.

[ultrapulse]

http://www.courtesyparts.com/b...cat=1

heres a good place to start looking for a Titan 5.6 crank

Given the available/developed and parts in development. is 450rwhp feasible in a VH Z32?

Nico Ecu + Mettler Cams + GTiR Valvetrain? + intake + custom headers + custom exhaust.

i've been discussing options with friends as well regarding upping compression or displacement, but every option discussed generally leads back to keeping the build simple.

450at the wheels is a pretty optomistic figure I think. You may however get close, have ultimate reliability, and sound awesome when stomping on it though. I wouldnt go for higher than the factory compression of 10.5:1. This is already quite high, and in a tight engine bay in the middle of summer I'd prob leave that ratio as it is, for the sake of going for slightly higher and the small gains per dollar spent.

Also perana, that 6k is out of my reach, considering the titans head design was strictly for torque not hp if you look at that nissan flyer and check out the ports. Cheers anyway. This means that after I pinch the crank its not much good for me, since courtesy parts new price on a titan crank was $3700 from memory.

[darkengineer]

350 at the wheels would be satisfactory. But I think increasing the displacement would be easier than installing turbocharging. Is there any logic in that?

You better get moving on your swap Roger, the VH45 is already 12 years old at best.

[riu]

good to see you finally join these forums, andy.

as appealling as higher compression sounds to all us NA guys out there. Bottom line is that very few of us really want to give up the VH stock bottom end, its just too good of a set of internals. Forced induction would be a better bang for your buck from what i've seen. I used to believe in the Dixon school of thought, and its still an amazing set up he's got over there, but if i don't get the power gains I want from the bolt ons, then i'm going to look into supercharging it.

[defrag010]

You can only go to so big of a bore without using wet sleeves, which are not only $$$ but need to be installed with a cnc. You can not enlarge the hole in VH45 composite headgaskets, the only option for larger than stock bore are custom gaskets. There are a myriad of gasketmakers that can make you a pair in any quantity. That's the problem I ran into when I tried to throw together this budget big-sleeve VH45 shortblock that I put together with some free time. You can dry sleeve the engine out to a little over 3 3/4" bore without getting too thin.

zerothread?id=269147

[tmorgan4]

After reading thought this post once again, I didn't see it mentioned. I was looking over the SAE papers for the VH last night and it pointed out that the liners are 3mm thick. Not a whole lot of material to play with there.

[ill_lh]

firstly i would like to say "HEY everyone at NICO!!!!!, i have been reading your forums for awhile now and decided i should join!!i would have to say this is the most informative forum in the existence of internet... i am currently undergoing a project of my own which is a vh45de in a lh 4 door torana,, but thats a whole nother story.......

ultra pulse, i have seen vk56de full engine package for sale on ebay.com for around the 2000us mark, which by the time you get here should not really cost you anymore than 3500aus...something to consider

[wishihadas14]

Here's a link to the part number and page to purchase a new crank from courtesy: http://www.courtesyparts.com/b....html. I couldn't tell from the diagram on this page if the crank is fully counterbalanced or only half. Any help? Pics on this page: http://www.courtesyparts.com/b....html

[perana]

yo, i got the vk56 crank rods and pistons(got the whole motor)so now what?dont have much free time now but my dad will be visiting me next month from ZA so ill get him to take a look and tell me whats what.cheers

[T45]