VH45 ITB setup

[ZX2NV]

Hi all

I have been doing a lot of research of late regarding the vh45 engine. As smaller projects are nearing completion my full focus will be on building my new 300zx race car which will feature a VH45 power plant mated to the Z32 5 speed, however hood clearance is an issue with the Z32 300zx as with many others.

I know ITB setups have been discussed before and a few select skilled individuals have fabricated there own setups (John Dixon and ultrapulse to name a couple) but to my knowledge there is no setup commercially available for the VH45 as of yet.

Over on the Hybrid forum I found a thread http://forums.hybridz.org/show...74790 which talked a bout a setup for the VK56. A couple of members made enquiries as to availability for the VH45 but nothing eventuated.

I recieved a very quick return email from the owner of extrudabody Kevin Thorton detailing the outcome and progress needed.

At this stage nothing was taken further, however if he gets a fistful of dollars a lower manifold gasket some measurements and time he can make up a solution for us. Some mods are needed to the heads to make it work. Apparently on the VH45 the intakes are dual entry per port which need to be machined out to an oval shape to work with the ITB setup and a few other small changes.

The first thing to do is gauge interest for this setup. Currently Kevin needs around 2500 USD to get the first setup made then a run of 5 can be had for around $1700 a peice. This seems pretty reasonable to me we can get a 1UZFE setup here in Australia for around the 3k mark AUD so Kevins pricing seems pretty good.

Anyway check out there website http://www.extrudabody.com/ and post of your thoughts good or bad.

I am looking at going down the ITB setup initially for ease of fitment and relaibility for the race car at least for the first season last thing I need is a car that doesnt even finish a race.

On a side note I am also talking with local piston manufacturers about higher comp and lower comp pistons for the VH45 they can do custom pistons which usually run at around $1500 a set of 8 AUD but again depends on numbers ordered etc and as popularity grows here for these engines that could change.

Here is a pic of a setup on a VK56<br /><br /> Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

Cheers

Jason
Modified by ZX2NV at 10:47 PM 3/30/2008

[Raxephon]

Nice, but I'll stick to my 1 liter motorcycle throttle-bodies @ $100 per bank.

For some reason $1700 just for throttle-bodies doesn't seem so appealing to me.

[ZX2NV]

great another option

Post up some more info and pics of this setup please and any dyno info if you have it.

Always open to other suggestions especially if I can save some money.

Hope to see some hard info soon

Cheers

J

[Q45tech]

The ~~ 16" from head to plenum is tuned to 6,000/4500 rpm the shorter the runner the higher the tuned rpm................don't make the ITB shorter unless you have appropriate cams to match and don't mind the loss of 4,000-4500 rpm torque. The 4th and 5th harmonic are used to deliver maximal torque at 1700-2,000 rpm to making lugging possible with ac on in 4,000 pound vehicle.

The lower weight and lower loss thru MT may make it possible to throw away the 8-12% torque gained from runners.

[accurate inject]

Or you can add your Runner length above the throttle plates to tune the motor to where ever you like it taking into consideration the vehicle weight, and intended use of the motor!

ITB's are 4" long and they have 1 " and 2" extensions, so some runner length tuning is in the hands of the average builder!

[Q45tech]

Unfortunately 6" [plus 2" in head] is ~ 12,500 rpm with a peak torque occuring at 8,000-9,000 rpm.

Not sure this is a streetable rpm range.

[accurate inject]

Here is an excellent article from Hot Rod on Length tuning! It has some excellent insight on length tuning!

"The effects of ram tuning reveal themselves as blips in the horsepower and torque curves which can either be tailored (by manipulating runner length) to coincide with, and enhance, the power peak or to bolster some other area of the power curve. In other words, just because a given engine may make maximum horsepower at 7,000 rpm doesn't mean you have to utilize the benefit of ram tuning at that speed. In fact, in most cases, you wouldn't."

http://www.hotrod.com/projectb....html

[SSDwellah]

If you all are worried about the height clearance (and I know I would be too), I have seen ITBs on a VG30DE engine that were mounted horizontally not vertically. This would place the ITBs somewhere over the rocker covers and the runners would interleave (except in alternating directions). If its hard to imagine, just clasp your hands together with your fingers interleaved. I think I saw some pics of this in a Nissan sponsored 300ZX race car that made about 300HP N/A. I'm guessing this was in the mid or early 90's when this car was more popular.

[accurate inject]

That's correct! You can build runner length any way you want it, but putting the ITB's at the Head locates the injectors closer to the intake valve, makes shaft alignment more precise and adding your runners to the top of the ITB's gives all kind of Airbox options.

[ZX2NV]

If you all are worried about the height clearance (and I know I would be too), I have seen ITBs on a VG30DE engine that were mounted horizontally not vertically. This would place the ITBs somewhere over the rocker covers and the runners would interleave (except in alternating directions). If its hard to imagine, just clasp your hands together with your fingers interleaved. I think I saw some pics of this in a Nissan sponsored 300ZX race car that made about 300HP N/A. I'm guessing this was in the mid or early 90's when this car was more popular.

Here is a setup off one of the local Holden V8 Supercars (development series) Note the cross over type plenum and injector setup.They develop the kits this way so that everything can be changed out in the least amount of time possible. They can change injectors in mere seconds, swap out trumpets in a few minutes getting access to the shafts and butterfly setups is a little harder but not usually required.

What they do with this setup is they have diferent length trumpets pre made and simply swap them over to alter the torque and power characteristics of the engine for each track they race on. The shorter tracks they use longer ones I believe while shorter for longer tracks etc.

They also change out diff gears aswell but thats another area we are not focussing on.

Ideally a setup like this is for race use only however if a basic type kit could be setup for use on streeters and hot rods etc then be able to be modified reasonably easy and cost effectively to this type of setup with the interchangeable tuned length trumpets then it would be ideal.

Not too sure how hard it would be as I have only just started looking into this option in the last few days.

<br /><br /> Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

Jason

[T45]

I can't wait to see the finished build of that car complete with backfire!

I would rather see cams than itb's for my VH but those are some sweet looking tb's!

[ZX2NV]

Ye

I can't wait to see the finished build of that car complete with backfire!

I would rather see cams than itb's for my VH but those are some sweet looking tb's!

yes certainly has that wow factor thats for sure if its feasible yet or not is a different story. I still havent decided which way to go yet.

High comp N/A with cams head work ITB's etc

or

Low comp Turbo or twin turbo with mild engine work internally.

Out here the TT or even T version will cost a lot more money to get it done right to be a reliable racer.

Too many choices maybe build one of both mmmmm that would be cool oh well back to reality now

Cheers

J

[SSDwellah]

Just to whet your appetite, here is a 1UZFE with ITBs (in an AE86/Levin no less!!!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba8sT2BQ4uc

I imagine that the VH45 would sound beefier and perform considerably better. A nice freshened up N/A combo would be 11:1 comp, bored to 5.0L, some updated camshafts (take into account the variable cam phasing to get decent idle and wild top end), ITBs, and a good ECU retune or standalone.

It should go pretty good.

[T45]

That sounded friggin sexy!

While we're on the 1UZ, I found a vid a while ago of a ported UZ head on a flowbench. Any ideas how this compares to the VH?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HwSZSdCczI

[accurate inject]

Never underestimate the power of VELOCITY over Flow numbers in a Normally Aspirated motor!

K

[John Dixon]

If you can do them for $1700 that's a great price! I'll probably have one set for another project over here.

[darinz]

High comp N/A with cams head work ITB's etc

or

Low comp Turbo or twin turbo with mild engine work internally.

Out here the TT or even T version will cost a lot more money to get it done right to be a reliable racer.

Too many choices maybe build one of both mmmmm that would be cool oh well back to reality now

Cheers

J

It cost me $5500 to buy turbo (T04z) get manifolds made, custom SS exhuast (3" from turbo to muffler, 2" from WG to muffler, 4" muffler back) and to mount the intercooler and all the plumbing minus the oil and water pipes. IC was $700.I've then spent $6500 on ECU, CDI and dyno to get the tune. That gives 280rwkw. This is all NZ$

How can you build a NA motor that will do that for cheaper and be anywhere near as reliable. Mine is a stock motor and I race it. It does Winch Challenges and will do Offroad races once we sort out the bugs with the rest of the truck.The HP I have is obtainable NA, no question but what do you need to do and what would the cost be to get over 500 hp na?

[ZX2NV]

Thats a fair comment but not really apples for apples.

Fitting all that gear onto a Patrol should be relatively easy as they have huge engine bays, but shoe horning a setup into a Z32 300zx well thats another story altogether, just working with the VG30DETT its very easy to spend 20k on the engine and supportimg mods let alone making up custom gear to fit the car.

It is a valid point however that dollar for dollar the TT setup would be more cost effective for the output gains but if reliablility becomes an issue that can cause real problems.

I would be interested to see some pics mate that sounds like an awesome setup.

[accurate inject]

Speaking of Patrols! TB48 anyone?



Kevn