VH45 into Patrol running, just! Thanks

[darinz]

I finally got mine truck running on Tuesday. The tuner was saying how rough it was running etc and we decided we'd pull the plugs to see if they were all good. (new) I went to right hand bank and asked if I should plug the ignitor in, he said no unplug it??????? He soon changed his mind about the motor when he realised it started first time with a base ecu tune, on only four cylinders and idled without idle control! It's fair to say there is now another convert. The thing sounds awesome compared to what it was when in the Q45. Can't what to get the bugs out and here it at 7k with the tubro screaming!!!!!!!Thanks to everyone for the help planning it!!!!!!!!!!

[elwesso]

Sweet!! CONGRATS. Now you need a vidoe of it running.

[Luv2ski35]

Need some info on this swap. I am planning to do it on my 2002 Nissan Frontier. My main question is with the different gearing in the axles, will I need to tune the ECM and TCM to compensate for the different wheel speed to get the computers the correct info so as not to make it run rich or lean? OR is it not a problem?

[darinz]

I've turboed mine and also it is using an Autronic ecu and cdi so I can't help with the factory ecu. I am also using a manual valve body on the auto so there is no tcu at all.There are plenty of others on here who can help with the factory ecu questions.One of the advantages of going to an aftermarket cdi is it gets rid of the factory ignitors and simplifies the wiring which is good for water prooofing. I assume from what you are doing that it is for off road use.

[T45]

Hey Ski, it's Bonez from NOR. The easiest way to approach your build, if you are choosing automatic, is to get a pathy trans. I am not sure if the auto frontiers trans are identical but I hear the Q trans is merely a pathy one with electronic controls.

You don't want the Q trans so avoid it if you can. I would research the differences between the auto's that nissan makes. I am almost certain that the auto's in the trucks and the auto in the Q will have the same bellhousing mounting type, where the bellhousing bolts on to the trans. If you search some here you can find pics of the Q's bellhousing and compare it to some fronty or pathy ones.

I was going 5 speed so I didn't research auto's but from what I gather it should be pretty much bolt on with some minor mods. I could be wrong though... lol

[T45]

Oh, and don't worry about the gearing issue. The engine only uses the speed reading for governing to my knowledge. And try to buy a whole parts car if you can, it makes things much much easier than trying to piece together things. I have used so many things from the donor that it would have cost a fortune to piece it together.

[RichZilla]

Darinz, nice to see somebody who knows what a proper aftermarket ECU is.

[Luv2ski35]

why would I not want to use the Q trans? In my research I have found that the tx10 transfer case will bolt to it because it's the same transmission in as in the pathy.

I plan on getting an entire donor car. This swap is a long way off....need to get the truck solid axled first which is taking a long time in itself....I haven't had a front suspension on it in 7 months.

I am in the extreme research phase of the swap.

[darinz]

I've been using the same trans for many years. It is the same one that is in the Q45, Patrol, 300ztt and quite a few others. The Pathfinder uses a smaller version as does the na 300z. I did 2 full seasons with it behind the 4.2 turbo diesel I was racing with. This was running about 200rwhp and who knows how much torque. ie intercooled, 21psi boost and the fuel and max. The key to the trans is good fluid ie synthetic, (I use Redline) and a good trans cooler. The Nissan ones are too small and the passage way inside them are too small and get bocked by the particles that are produced as the lock up torque converter wears.I am using the VH torque converter with some small mods, the trans is a selection of the best bits from the Patrol and the Q45 auto's. I'd basically had my trans rebuilt to as strong as you can while behind the deisel so they used that as the base.To control it I have a 'Extreme Manual Valve Body' from Wholesale Automatics in Oz. This means no TCU, no line pressure control, and manual change only. It is pretty brutal if you change gears when just cruising but changing under load it is very very smooth. I can change gears when on the rev limiter and you hardly feel a thing! And that is with 375rwhp!If you do it right the Q / Patrol trans is good for 650hp and it won't cost as much as you would believe. It cost me a few $100 on top of a rebuild to get it all upgraded and all they did was strengthen the torque convertor so no cost there. The biggest cost is a valve body and that is the biggest improvement you can make. I have the same trans in my tow vehicle and that is a LWB Patrol that regulary has the race truck on a trailer behind it ie 3000kg trailer behind a truck that laded would be a bout the same. As you can imagine a I don't drive it nicely either!!!!!!!

[Mettler]

Hey darinz, don't forget to let us NZ boys know when you're gonna be down in the waikato for a comp

[T45]

why would I not want to use the Q trans?

There's nothing wrong with it mechanically. However there are a few reasons why I wouldn't use it. One, it's computer controlled. You'll need to hook up the TCU to the ECU and a bunch of extra relays and stuff that I thought wouldn't be that big of a deal. That is until I got the harness out of the car. It's downright scary.





Second is that it's 2nd gear start. Not that big of a deal but you will have to swap in the Q shifter as 1st gear is only enabled with WOT or putting the gear shifter into 1st. A regular truck shifter won't work because 1st gear is selected electronically via a switch in the shifter. You can always throw in a manual switch in your dash or something but it seems like overkill when all that is needed is a truck automatic with 0 computer controls.

RichZilla swapped a Q auto into his mercedes car. He can give you some guidelines and timelines if you still want more research.

[darinz]

Yeah, I played with it and had it working with all the elctric controls but without the TCU and using a Patrol shifter. It was OK and the hardest part was getting line pressure control via the TPS. We had a 5v power supply to the TPS and then the output went direct to the line pressure solenoid. It worked pretty well and it had low pressure at idle and then went to full pressure ie solenoid closed at 1500rpm. (diesel motor)The Q shifter is a pain so I'd be tempted to get Pathy shifter and valve body as that will enable a much easier seup ie 1st is selected mechanically. With the Pathy TCU I'm pretty sure it is stand alone so you could use it and simplify the trans wiring. The early Pathy (I got a 93 Pathfinder but a 5 speed) had first gear start and the laterI believe went to 2nd start. The latter model ones also have a hold button so that you can hold any gear you want. I would think with how common the auto is, you should be able to find a basic TCU to run it without much drama. The valve bodes are all interchangable between them and a shifter is a shifter so getting rid of the electronic 1st shouldn't be an issue. BUT if the other auto will bolt up and is easier to wire and is just as strong then what is easier???????After having played with them for many years in different configs, I think the setup I've now got is the ultimate (for what I do). The only draw back is that it is now a manual but for driving it is amazing, ie it now just a sequentional manual. With manual control of lock up torque converter as well. ie lock in any gear including reverse.

[darinz]

Hey darinz, don't forget to let us NZ boys know when you're gonna be down in the waikato for a comp

Next comp is in Auckland 7 to 9 March.

[Luv2ski35]

It'd be really great if my 2002 frontier trans fit with the Q engine.

[Luv2ski35]

if you use the pathy transmission and eliminate the TCM, will the ECM be looking for the TCM and not run the engine right?

I am just trying to get a feel for how much work reprogramming/flashing will need to be done to the computer to get it to all work together.

Besides the 2nd gear start, the Q45 transmission can be used right?...thus literally just swapping engine, transmission and all the wiring and computers over... (I know that sounds really simple...and it's still a huge job).

[T45]

Honestly, if you're fronty is an auto I have read over and over that all nissan automatics use the same pattern on the bellhousings where they bolt to the transmission. Try and find a pic of a fronty bellhousing and I know there are plenty of pics here of the VH bellhousing.

The only things that are actually NEEDED for the ecu to operate properly are pretty simple actually. When you get the vh out you'll see the most beautiful thing in your life. An engine harness that is separate from the rest of the engine bay. That's what makes swapping nissans so easy. Almost all of their cars and trucks have separate harnesses for the engines and body.

The engine harness is already together. All the injectors, coils, MAF, TPS, O2, etc are already done. All that you need to do is hook up the rest to your truck. I don't have the wires off hand but it's only like 10 or so.

The ecu doesn't need anything from the trans at all, or even the vehicle for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbK1AiQNhs

There is much much research to do but you will learn a ton about engines and nissan engines in particular. just start reading. lol

The Q trans can be used after you get the tcase bolted up to it. I have never done that but maybe someone here has, I have only read about it being done.

First I would find me some pics of fronty bellhousings and compare to the VH. It may be bolt and play if you have an auto.

[pjnater2000]

Gidday,

My wife cooked up my patrol motor so looking to repower with a VH41. I want to give it a little tickle up in the HP dept, what is best aside from headers? Also wondering if you needed to modify the sump to fit and how much rework of the mounts?

I havn't got the VH41 delivered yet so just planning. Any help would be appriciated.

How does yours go? What mods have you done?

[darinz]

Are you prepared for a little work???????

The good things.VH uses the same trans as TD42 and TB42.If you have a VH trans and Patrol trans then it is easy to bolt them together.The easiest way to make the trans work is to get a manual valve body from Oz. About $1500 and then it is good for 650hp. I have about 530 and it is brilliant.I have the transfer case in factory position so that means the cab has been shifted back 3" on the chassis. Great for approach angle but a bit of extra work. Mine has been cut to a flatdeck so quite easy.With the engine in this position the sump is directly above the axle but I get coil bind exactly when the axle would hit the sump, so I've set the bumpstops (hydraulic) to stop this. A rear sump would be better but I haven't got to that yet.Then you need to extend the steering shaft but that just means you get part of a Hilux shaft and it bolts togeter.VH41 alternator will be fine but it is 12v and I assume you truck is 24v. My truck is completely 12v with only 24v for the winch. So I have the 110amp 12v and a 70amp 24v alternators sitting on top of the motor.Currently I have a VL Comodore power steer pump winch is a Nissan motor anyway. I have a SR20 Primera pump to fit as it is a better fit and the current pump boils the PS fluid during competitions. Which isn't much fun!!!!!!

Engine mounts are completely custom. Factory manifolds will not fit between chassis rails.I turboed mine as I thought if I'm getting manifolds made I may as well get them for a turbo! Wiring is pretty easy. Guy's on here can help you reprograme the factory ecu to do about anything, but I have got an Autronic ecu and cdi ignition. But mine is a comp truck so wanted 100% tunabilty and reliablity. Also I'm running 10psi on factory compression with avgas so a little pushing the limits as far as detonation goes.With all this it has 279kw at the wheels and wieghs about 2000kgs so you can say it goes quite well. My crash a the nor-West Winch Comp is talked about in the latest 4x4 Action mag so that gives you an indication of whatis possible. ie With enough traction it will almost wheel stand!

[tmorgan4]

darinz....are you sure that factory manifolds won't clear the frame rails? I'm running factory VH manifolds on my Pathfinder and they fit PERFECTLY between the factory rails. I'd just be really surprised if the Patrol had a narrower frame rail to frame rail measurement than my Pathfinder.

[darinz]

The VH45 manifolds definitely don't. VH41 log style might. I have a 93 Pathfinder that may just receive a VH45 turbo conversion in the future so I've measured and the rails in the engine bay are basically the same as a Patrol.

I'm thinking that as my Patrol chassis and body has done 3 seasons by the end of next year it will be 5 old so it will be time for a new body at least so may as well do a chassis at the same time. The Pathfinder is the same wheelbase as my truck ie 104" and it has the same engine bay width. The engine bay length is an issue for how I have it setup so I may just have to go twin turbo rather than single. My axles are 140 wider but that isn't a problem and a solid axle conversion isn't that hard so I'd end up with Patrol running gear, VH engine and Pathfinder chassis and body. Much lighter and shorter in hieght for the same wheel base and track with the same hp as now could be quite an interesting project.

[Mettler]

Ooo, do I see a twin T04z setup looming in the future?

[darinz]

No but there will probably be a T04z forsale that will suit a VH45 very well. Do you know anyone that would be interested in something like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.I'd probable go down to a GT30 ish, but it is a while away so haven't really looked into it much. Will probably to pistons at the same time so that I can run pump gas and also more boost if needed!

[Mettler]

Mint, keep in touch about that _b

Also, I recommend GT3076Rs