vh41 vs45........cost vs performance

[flyingbrick]

hi all.

for some reason here in nz the vh41's are selling for HALF what the vh45's are... as well as this- the 41 is supposed to be 1.5" narrower which is a great thing considering the size of my engine bay.

I do not have an endless budget for the motors build but would like to eventually see it fitted with an M90..so my question is- how much extra does that 400cc get you in reality. is the vh41 a totally inferior motor in comparison?

Also the vh41 im looking at right now has a totally different manifold to the 45's ive seen. Its sorta a side-feed log style plenum as opposed to the more common spider looking thing.

ALSO. the 41 has its alternator mounted up top between cylinders- the 45 has it mounted on the side if i remember correctly. Am I able to mount the 45's alternator in the same place as the 41's using 4.1litre brackets etc?

Thanks all

[Mettler]

You're looking at the Y33 generation VH41DE, not recommended. Go for the VH45DE, or try and find a Y32 generation VH41DE, as these have the spider manifold and other bits & pieces that make them awesome.

[darinz]

hi all.

for some reason here in nz the vh41's are selling for HALF what the vh45's are... as well as this- the 41 is supposed to be 1.5" narrower which is a great thing considering the size of my engine bay.

I do not have an endless budget for the motors build but would like to eventually see it fitted with an M90..so my question is- how much extra does that 400cc get you in reality. is the vh41 a totally inferior motor in comparison?

Also the vh41 im looking at right now has a totally different manifold to the 45's ive seen. Its sorta a side-feed log style plenum as opposed to the more common spider looking thing.

ALSO. the 41 has its alternator mounted up top between cylinders- the 45 has it mounted on the side if i remember correctly. Am I able to mount the 45's alternator in the same place as the 41's using 4.1litre brackets etc?

Thanks all

Now it all makes sense. I guess this means you'll be hassling me about motor conversions.

I'd suggest you stick with the extra capacity. Sure the 45's are a bit dearer but that comes with more torque. Your toy might be lighter than a Patrol but it is still going to be on the heavy side so more torque is better.
Also is an M90 going to be big enough for a VH? Keri Louie has been running an M90 on his TB42 and that lacked top end with relatively low boost. I tossed up going that way but i think you'll need bigger than M90 (not that I kno wmuch about SC) or just go with a turbo (or 2)
And before you go to far think about this.
My mates worked TD42 is faster in a drag race than another mates SWB with an LS1. Both manual, same tyres etc etc. And we aren't talking about slightly faster either!!!
The biggest issue with fitting a VH to a Patrol is the chassis rails. They are too narrow to fit the factory manifolds in side and due to the shape you will have no clearance to fit virtually any sort of extractors. So simple log style manifold and a good turbo is ONE solution.
If you are serious then I have worked out pretty much everything you are asking yourself so come down to the Manukau Winch Challenge next weekend, bring lots of beer and we can talk a lot more about it.

I should add, I made brakets up and fitted the 45 alternator above the thermostat housing. There isn't room between the chassis rails to fit the alternator or in fact the oil filter so you'll have to shift that as well.

[flyingbrick]

Thanks Darin. I appreciate your comments here

Do not really have a hell of a lot to ask you to be honest! I've had a good read of Nico, your threads, a few by Justin and have spoken to Tim (kens son)= its all pretty straightforwards.... Especially since theres no cab on the thing.

Remote mounting the oil filter should be no big deal considering its got the offset mounting block. I did a very similar thing to a toyota 3vzfe v6 a few years ago- cut the mounting block in half and drilled and tapped the ports for barbed fittings. It worked very well.
ooh, found a pic even



I've given up on the ORE project thread. Obviously im too open, vocal and everything else. I've created a monster there which I wont provoke again. I understand now why SO many people have told me they wont have project threads there.

changed to the v8 for a few reasons. I always wanted to consider the vh but cost was prohibitive for me. Time has passed and so the budget has been extended. I also did not want to bother with the complexity of it all... but again- since the truck is sitting there with no cab there is not a better time for it.

There was one other reason for both the new cab and the v8 swap. Because the v8 is shorter than the 4.2 straight 6 I'm able to better position my cab further rearwards. This means I no longer have to take a massive slice out of my body (as i see you have done!) and I can keep more of the (nicer, later shape) interior, dash/carpets etc.

Its all coincided to make a much better vehicle I think. Cant bring myself to be enthusiastic about anything that i know I could possibly do better.

I'm not too well at the moment. Have not been at work for a while so am unsure if I can make it to the manakau event HOWEVER I'll try. Would be good for me to get out.
I do remember you like green bottles.

ALSO. I've got myself a good VH45. Oh happy times. ECU, loom, auto trans etc. Have also contacted that wholesale place in aus and will likely order one of their manual shift valve blocks (unsure still as to why it has wires and solenoids in it? in their pics) I'll get a local trans shop to put the Q45 internals into my safari box. It was due for a rebuild anyways.

re: the m90... have not put much thought into it. People use the M90 on the 1uz without problems and im only wanting, say, 5psi so issues should be limited. Its in the future so will think more about it then. If not the M90 then the m112?

Thanks all
-Nathan

[Mettler]

You can't compare the 1UZ to the VH, the engines are leagues apart, especially in terms of head design... go for the bigger supercharger

[darinz]

Have a read of my latest column and you will get a pretty good idea of where i think ORE has gone. I think ORE is becoming a wanabe Pirate but without knowledge. There are some smart people of there and some idiots who are very vocale. Life in general I guess.
The manual VB (RE4R03A) has wires going into it as it still has 2 solenoids. One for 4th and one for the ock up clutch. It is a really simple thing to sort out and is the exact VB I'm running.
If i was you, I'd spending the money and get new frictions when you swap the shafts in the auto. It is going to cost a bit to get them all stripped and rebuilt so may as well fit new parts while you're at it. It won't cost that much more in the great scheem of things. I'd also suggest getting the stall speed increased a wee bit. The factory stall is about 1800rpm and really bogs the VH down. Everyone I know using them offroad has either increased on wants to increase the stall speed. I'm getting mine done to about 2200 as i have about 4psi but then so things are really starting to go.

You'll probably be happy to know I've canned the LS1 plan and are staying with the VH45. Mainly a cost thing as I have everything to bolt the VH up and have 450kw. Seems silly to go with a different motor when I'm very short of money.

I would suggest you don't follow a lot of what I'm doing as you really don't need to go to that level for what you plan. The D21 engine is just small so to fit a turboed VH was not going to happen. Since you have a Hilux body then there should be heaps of room to keep it simple. Make sure you take note of the oil pressure problems people have had with remote oil filters. Also you want a big sump! I've cut and spun mine and at the same time I'm increasing the depth by about 100mm. Basically the sump will be as low as the trans pan. At the same time I'm reinforcing the sump with some 3mm plate to ensure it doesn't get damaged when I do something really stupid. (when not if )

Yes green bottles are good

[flyingbrick]

thanks again.

I ditched the trans ecu and was using relays to shift through all 4 gears and lockup (after you told me what the soilenoids did) so yeah having just one solenoid and lockup will be easy.


Had no idea you were going LS1?! I do not really know where you post any longer. Had heard rumors about your column but no idea where to find it. I too considered the old and new chev v8's but after cost of the motor (eeeek) and adaptor plates etc to make it easy to fit the price was getting quite ridiculous.

Everyones short on money, dammit. Thats why my project keeps changing track or getting cooler. every so often more money is saved so things get upgraded. lol.

Not wanting to follow you at all? I have absolute no interest in competing and just want something awesome to experiment and thrash around with the friends. I'm probably building my dream truck................not a crime i hope, hahahaha.

What are you doing on your truck now if you ain't running the turbo?

have read much about the oil issues the vh's have. It sounds like there is a fair bit of oil getting trapped in the heads so plan is to install 1x external drain per head going down into block. Obviously dont know what im talking about as dont have the motor here to look at- but If its possible to drill the factory drains out in a straight line from the head down into the bottom of the block it'd be awesome..but unlikely.

Will also have to try find these larger bearings you speak of- or have crank ground. Will look at all this when its in the truck and running and I can relax a little.