VH41/45 180 Degree headers. Has anyone tried to make them?

[Drift-wood]

I was wondering if anyone has tried to make 180 Degree headers for the VH series of motors. I also wanted to know from someone who as done the VH swap in a 240sx if a 180 degree header setup is even possible.

[Drift-wood]

No one ??

[JoeNoNameMotorsports]

Maybe nobody else knows what they are but I seriously doubt they would fit in there. All the NASCAR type cars I've seen them on basically had the whole right firewall removed to make them fit. The only other way would be to connect them under the car which would really hurt ground clearance.

[LEMHEAD16]

What would be the point? If you are looking for an Engineering/Fabrication project to prove you are hot s*** than go for it. I doubt there would be that much HP gain over an equal length design, which is already pretty difficult to fit in an S13/14 engine bay.

[Drift-wood]

Well I'm the planing stage of my engine choice.
If I was to do this it would be a Vh41de I have been told they provide about a inch or inch and half more room on each side. I was planning on routing the exhaust under the engine. I hear the vh41de has a flat oil pan though running the exhaust so close tithe oil pan would not be the best idea unlease I was to run heat shields.

[LEMHEAD16]

You didn't answer the main question, WHY? 180 header in a super tight engine bay would be extremely difficult and the payoff wouldn't really be worth it.

Go with a Tri-Y or 4 into 1 and you will have a reliable system that is easier* to design and fab.

* Still a pain in the arse

[Drift-wood]

The reason I was wanting to is going to sound like a stupid reason but I do not like the sound of a v8 at all. It sounds like nails on a chalk board to me. I want the power and torque that the vh41 provides while giving me a well balanced car. With the 180 degree header setup it removes the annoyance of sound and makes it more to my taste. The other benefit being supposed increase in mid-torque.
I had read about the tri setups. Would this provide the sound I'm wanting.
Pretty much I'm between rb25det or vh41de.

[kingkilburn]

Go with a good tri Y or equal length and a well designed X pipe and you will lose a lot of the lumpy sound of the firing order.

[Drift-wood]

Thanks for the suggestion it seems you are right there whith what I'm saying.
I know most people wanttye v8 brumble but I just find it a turn off. I'm not really one for a engine that sounds as though it's having trouble staying running. I love that sweet smooth sound you hear from single plane crank v8's

[Drift-wood]

Since space is such an issue how huge of a hindrance is running a non equal length header?

[LEMHEAD16]

The VH Does not sound "Lopey" at all with headers of any design that I have heard. You are in a world of your own if you don't like the sound of a V8, but I understand beauty is in the eye of the beholder (listener?) I pulled the stereo out of my car just because I think the sound of a V8 is like a symphony.

Good luck with your build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JthzFgWYuvw

Tell me that doesn't sound good!

[Drift-wood]

Lol yeah everyone family included says something is wrong with me not liking the sound of a v8 lol. Though to me the sound of a straight 6 with a turbo is a audible work of art. Sounds so beautiful.
The vh I figured wouldn't be to bad on the lope because if it's shorter stroke and lower displacement.
I just wish there was room for turbos on it I'm a s14.

[Drift-wood]

So after reading more into v8 exhaust setups I have quick question.
If I was to build a tri y header and run both sides into a single exhaust pipe to the end of the car would that get me closer to what I want to achieve sound wise and keep me from fighting with a bundle of snakes that the 180degree header setup would cause.

[kingkilburn]

If you make all the pipes the same length it will even out the sound. If they are different the pulses will not be equally spaced and you will still get a lumpy sound. The closer to equal the smoother you'll get.

[Drift-wood]

thanks for the help king..
This is the setup I'm looking at building then.
Create two Tri Y headers have them both run to a Y that bridges them into a single exhaust then hook the cat to that and run single exhaust all the way to the back.
I would use a 2.5 or 3" single exhaust from the headers back.

Everyone loves drawings ^_^ specially MSpaint ones.
I would determine the pipe sizes after doing much more research but I wanted to know if i'm on the right track though.

[djwarner]

Interesting to a guy who never worked down to this level.

How does this fit with the firing sequence? I know cranks are not always timed in such a neat order.

[LEMHEAD16]

1-5/8 is about the biggest tubing you will be able to fit for the primaries. I would go with 3 inch tubing after the collector.

Better have a decent welder and a band saw ready.

[Drift-wood]

Interesting to a guy who never worked down to this level.

How does this fit with the firing sequence? I know cranks are not always timed in such a neat order.

Well the 180 Degree setup would equal out the exhaust pulse and help over all mid range performance. The Try Y setup is kind of the mix between a 4 to 1 and a 180 degree setup.

Should show slight gains accross the whole band but breath a little better at the top end from what I under stand.

I haven't worked out which two cyilnders I would group in the try Y as I don't know which cyclinder is which on the vh41de yet.

[Drift-wood]

1-5/8 is about the biggest tubing you will be able to fit for the primaries. I would go with 3 inch tubing after the collector.

Better have a decent welder and a band saw ready.

Thanks for the information on the tube size.

Yeah I have a Hobart 180c with C25 mix. I also have a Chop saw and my friend has a plasma cutter.
I'm thinking about just tacking the stuff together and taking to my other friend and having it tig weld it.

[b20vtechb]

the vh41 will not have any more room then the vh45... they both have the same deck height. the displacement difference comes for the crank

[LEMHEAD16]

Actually the 41 is a bit narrower than the 45 leaving more room between the frame rails. At least that's what I have heard, but don't take my word for it.

[fluffybunny]

Some useful info:

VH41DE-
Power: 268 hp at 5600 rpm, 278 lb·ft at 4000 rpm
Dry Weight: 260 kg = 573 lbs.
Size(metric) (L x W x H): L= 850mm W= 680mm H= 760mm
Size (english) (L x W x H): L= 33.5” W= 26.75” H= 29.9”


VH45DE-
Power: 278 hp at 6000 rpm, 292 lb·ft at 4000 rpm, redline of 6900 rpm
Dry Weight: 520 lbs.
Size (metric) (L x W x H): L= 890mm W= 740mm H= 725mm
Size (english) (L x W x H): L= 35.04" W= 29.13" H= 28.54"


VK45DE-
Power: 340 hp at 6400 rpm, 333 ft·lb·ft at 4000 rpm. Redline of 6600 rpm.
Dry Weight: 236.5 kg = 522 lbs.
Size(metric) (L x W x H): L= 921mm W= 692mm H= 778mm
Size (english)(L x W x H): L= 36.25” W= 27.25” H= 30.6”

[kingkilburn]

Is that the jdm vh41 or us vh41?

All info I've ever seen on the jdm vh41 says it is outwardly identical in dimension.

[Drift-wood]

I had read and also researched alot about the vh41 and found it was a little narrower than the vh45. That is one of the reasons I wanted to go with it that and it's 1.9:1 rod to stroke ratio. I was thinking making it a spinner and that was the reason I was thinking 180 degree headers. The only thing is after alot of reshearch I think the rb25det might be the way I'll go. I want to do a swap that I'll retain my air conditioning and be able to have force induction down of some sort. It just seems the vh is more in the realm of ditching creature comforts.
If you guys know of anyone that keep their air and every thing let me know I would like to see the info on it.

Do you think the 100mm you save between the 45 and 41 would allow for turbos at all?

[Drift-wood]

Also my s14 is being built in a autolux style so I had thought of just doing the vh41de orientated towards higher rpm power and using the 180 degree header to further refine the sound into that of a exotic.
Just so you know where I'm coming from. I'm not totally set yet on what I want to run just the rb25det would get me to my goals also but I know I can do what I want with it.

[djwarner]

Still intrigued by the project, I looked up the engine specs for my '02 Q45 with a VK45DE engine. The firing sequence for mine is 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2.

Most troublesome, I think, would be the 7-3 sequence which would put two sequential pulse on the same wye. Secondly, the 4-2 sequnece puts two sequential pulses on the same side.

Wouldn't this upset your even firing intent?

[Drift-wood]

Your are right the TRI Y setup is not ideal but it allows for a compromise. That is why you would use the Y at the end to bridge them together or use a H pipe if you wanted dual exhaust tips.

A 180 Degree system would be ideal. If you want to know the exhaust to Cylinder piping it would be.
1-8-7-3
6-5-4-2

You would have to merge as follows If I had a picture of the vh45de and knew where each cylinder was in it I could draw you a diagram lol.
1 and 6
8 and 5
7 and 4
3 and 2
2 sets of these would consist of running a pipe from one side to the other side of the engine.

[djwarner]

Here is the arrangement on the VK45DE

2-4-6-8
Front
1-3-5-7