VH Z32

[MikeH]

Where is this measured from?

VH41DE-Dry Weight: 260 kgSize(mm)(L x W x H): 850 x 680 x 760

When I measure from the back of my Z32's engine bay forward to check the length, 850mm takes me well beyond the front of the existing radiator?

Anyway, part of the reason I'm considering switching my VG30DETT with a VH41 is to be able to work on it without ending up in the fetal position by the end of the day. Currently many things (including turbos and various hoses) are just better left untouched until the engine is out, so I'm curious how much of the VH will be inaccessable when installed?

From the few pics I've seen, the VH seems a lot cleaner on the sides and back but maybe they've been stripped down? here's a pic of the VG30DETT to compare:

[riu]

i don't know the measurements off the top of my head, but i can tell you that it will fit. its been done in a few Z32's before and its being done in a few more. only problem you may run into is that it'll be slightly too tall and you'll need to either cut a hole in your bonnet, or you'll need to go and buy the bonnet with the bulge in it from Do-Luck.

[MikeH]

yea, that's ok... well not really, I'd prefer not to hack it up but I don't see many decent alternatives.. for some reason all the LS1 transplants I've seen included cutting the firewall even though it's smaller all round. *shrug*

anyway, if I go with the VH41.. how long do you reckon it'd take to finish up after the engine and gearbox is mated up and in the car? I'm trying to imagine everything else that'd need diong besides the wiring, I guess I'll need a hicas lock bar, not worth trying to get that running again.. what else would I lose.. climate control? dunno.

damn that little post button is inconspicuous.

[maxnix]

Might search for posts by 450ZXTT.

[sijoko]

The VH41 was created to be more compact than the VH45 so it could fit in smaller platforms.

If there is a Z32 with a VH45DE twin turbo, then I can't see you having any problems with the VH41 in your car.

[irax]

most of that dissaray is due to the dual throttle bodies.

[Mettler]

The VH41 was created to be more compact than the VH45 so it could fit in smaller platforms.

How so, when the only possible size difference is in the heads ?

The VH41DE was released in the Y32 Cima, which shared the same chassis as the early Q45s (according to quick search). I'm not aware of any smaller platform cars than that which got the V8 treatment... Cimas and other Nissan & Infiniti luxury barges only got bigger after that generation.

[elwesso]

The JPY32 (Nissan J-Ferie) was available with the VH41

[Mettler]

Hmm, and that thing looks only about as big as a bluebird... interesting, I never knew about that model !

[MikeH]

the early 90's VH41 have VVT don't they?

[sijoko]

How so, when the only possible size difference is in the heads ?

The VH41DE was released in the Y32 Cima, which shared the same chassis as the early Q45s (according to quick search). I'm not aware of any smaller platform cars than that which got the V8 treatment... Cimas and other Nissan & Infiniti luxury barges only got bigger after that generation.

The G50 Q45 (90-96) and the FY32 Cima are two different platforms. The G50 was designed for the VH45DE. The FY32 was released in August of 1991 and it was based on the Y32 platform, released in June of 91, which was built for the VG30 engine.

Here are the dimensions for the VH45DE:

890 mm(L) x 740 mm(W) x 725 mm(H)

Compare them with the VH41DE:

850 mm(L) x 680 mm(W) x 760 mm(H)

[MikeH]

hrm, does that mean the 41 manifold will sit higher out my bonnet than the 45? I thought the 41 was smaller in height as well as width.

[Mettler]

The G50 Q45 (90-96) and the FY32 Cima are two different platforms. The G50 was designed for the VH45DE. The FY32 was released in August of 1991 and it was based on the Y32 platform, released in June of 91, which was built for the VG30 engine.

Here are the dimensions for the VH45DE:

890 mm(L) x 740 mm(W) x 725 mm(H)

Compare them with the VH41DE:

850 mm(L) x 680 mm(W) x 760 mm(H)

It's all well and good to go looking on google, but I don't usually trust the internet for things like that, many people can't measure.

Here's a direct quote from a colleague of mine on another forum:

Quote »Nyloc wrote on 11 Sep 2006 6:39 pm:

I had the vh45 and vh41 sitting in the same workshop and there a lot of differences tbh, they are clearly quite different castings with mounts and things all in different places. but when you measure them they are pretty much the same size, the vh45 just looks bigger from some reason. I measured from inlet cam to inlet cam- identical width. overall width = identical, bar the slightly different cam sensor mount which adds about 10mm to the vh45. I think the way the US guys call the vh41de 'smaller / lighter duty' is completely wrong, its just misleading to look at them.[/quote]There it is, confirmed by someone who has had both engines in the same workshop at the same time. Also, despite popular belief that the VH41DE is in some way inferior, it isn't. It's also got the deep skirted block with crossbolted main bearing beam, as well as a stronger timing chain setup than the 45. The best VH45DE is created by sticking the 4.5 internals into a JDM VH41DE.

Not looking to argue, I'm just preventing the spread of misleading information.

[ultrapulse]

Yes I agree. I have measured both as well at once. Virtually the same size. Its just that mainly the vtec of the 45 seems to look bulkier, but isnt the extremeties of the complete engine. the plastic covers do look bigger. Also my engine had been overheated, siezed a cam, and broke the cams dowel and pulley bolt, smashed the pissy plastic chain guide (early 45) but hasnt even looked at the chain. My suggestions are to replace the chain guides (readily available thru NZ dealers) with new ones which are steel backed, but dont worry about the chains...very strong as a mates very stressed stockcar hasnt yet given any probs in that dept (albeit alot of other areas). They run fixed tensioners from memory. The basic engines in my view are of equal strength, as they are nearly identical. Why they didnt make the heads fit each other i dont know....thats automotive manufacturing for ya i guess.

[MikeH]

welll damn, 45 it is then.. I was keen on the 41 as I read many many times that it was smaller and a good deal lighter, there's also a disassembled front cut nearby.. I figured I could switch out the internals later if desired but may as well go for the bigger capacity VVT engine from the start since I don't know yet whether I'll boost it and would probably be more content with it in stock N/A form than the 41. (and yea I do know bout that 800 hp N/A 41)

[Mettler]

The basic engines in my view are of equal strength, as they are nearly identical.

I agree with everything you said other than this. The VH45DE runs simplex timing chains on each side, from the crank sprocket right up around the cam sprockets and down again. The VH41DE runs simplex timing chains on each side halfway up the motor to an idler sprocket, and down again. It then has duplex timing chains running from each idler sprocket, up and around the cams. Duplex timing chain has 190% the strength of simplex... and by running shorter chains overall, the effects of chain stretch are far less severe, generating far less slack (only negligence would allow a chain to stretch enough to the point of failure anyway though).

The simplex timing chain setup on the 45 is, as you say, incredibly strong. Can't fault that, you should never have any problems with it if you run the metal backed guides... but wouldn't you agree the other setup takes it a step further ?

welll damn, 45 it is then.. I was keen on the 41 as I read many many times that it was smaller and a good deal lighter, there's also a disassembled front cut nearby.. I figured I could switch out the internals later if desired but may as well go for the bigger capacity VVT engine from the start since I don't know yet whether I'll boost it and would probably be more content with it in stock N/A form than the 41. (and yea I do know bout that 800 hp N/A 41)

FYI, the VH41DE & VH45DE both have VTC. The 45 has the VTC solenoids mounted on the front of the intake cams, whereas the 41 has smaller & more discreet VTC solenoids right next to the two front-most lower intake runners. I'm just hoping that you don't run into any clearance problems with the alternator & chassis rails... I'd like to know if the other Z32 owners who have done this conversion encountered this issue, or whether the Z32 rails are a lot further apart.

[sijoko]

Mettler, thou art the champion of the VH41DE.

Anyway, my intention is not to rag on the 41 but I just wanted to get across that there is a width difference between the engines. The dimensions for the VH45DE were obtained from the SAE paper submitted by Nissan.

[Mettler]

Hahaha

Well someone's gotta get the info out there otherwise people are always gonna think of the VH41 as the underdog, when it in fact has a number of improvements over the VH45 & fits into vehicles for conversions easier!

Anyway I've plugged it enough, I'll be updating my project car thread in the near future as I've nearly completed the conversion & will be running in under a month (fingers crossed) !

[MikeH]

well, I took a rough measure of the 41.. 680mm width is right, whether the 45 was measured the same way or included exhaust manifold I don't know..

actually I got near 680mm all round but length was only up to edge of coolant filler cap since there was crap in my way.. oh and height was just to base of bellhousing since the sump was sitting in a tyre.

[ultrapulse]

I agree with everything you said other than this. The VH45DE runs simplex timing chains on each side, from the crank sprocket right up around the cam sprockets and down again. The VH41DE runs simplex timing chains on each side halfway up the motor to an idler sprocket, and down again. It then has duplex timing chains running from each idler sprocket, up and around the cams. Duplex timing chain has 190% the strength of simplex... and by running shorter chains overall, the effects of chain stretch are far less severe, generating far less slack (only negligence would allow a chain to stretch enough to the point of failure anyway though).

The simplex timing chain setup on the 45 is, as you say, incredibly strong. Can't fault that, you should never have any problems with it if you run the metal backed guides... but wouldn't you agree the other setup takes it a step further ?.

Yes, but Keep It Simple Stupid, unless the added complexity is with necessary/reasonable performance gain. Basically they are all fine. And yes if I could snap my fingers I would choose the later setup. When my chains break maybe then I will believe in the warranted strength. One area worth a look in though is the oil pump drive chain. By memory it uses the front pulley clamp for rotation 'grip', no dowels,keys etc... One pulley I will be getting keyed so it doesnt slip.

[MikeH]

mmm, I still can't see how many can be wrong about the dimensions.. unless certain versions of the 41 or 45 are different..

anyway, I'm leaning back towards the 41.. even though Mettler's like the only person on the net that favours them over the 45.

next question is.. I think I read that the 90-93 45's are best, but is that also the case with the 41? I'm a bit concerned that this era seems to share the same 370 injectors as the VG30DETT. They aren't as good a design as you get on the 94+ VG and their expensive nismo 555 replacements don't last with ethanol when combined with the constant power / negative switched setup that existed until the injectors changed.. is the VH the same in that respect?

VTC was dropped in 96? but was that just the U.S version?

I can get this 41 nearby which is an early one or pay a tad more for a newer one with lower k's.. both have the spider manifold, I don't even know what year that changed. I guess I'll do some more googling for now!
Modified by MikeH at 2:12 PM 9/22/2006

[Mettler]

mmm, I still can't see how many can be wrong about the dimensions.. unless certain versions of the 41 or 45 are different..

anyway, I'm leaning back towards the 41.. even though Mettler's like the only person on the net that favours them over the 45.

I can... one individual puts up some vague measurements, and from that point on, anyone and everyone googling "VH41 dimensions" copies their information, and so the misinformation spreads.

American and Japanese versions of the motor are different... TBH the only VH41DE worth playing with is the FGY32 release. It's got the right combination of all the good stuff previously mentioned, not sure what the american version came out with. I recall reading somewhere here on NICO that the block was nerfed later on due to Nissan having financial problems... does anyone want to confirm this for us please ?

I might be the only person on the net to favour the VH41, but that's because 99% of people on the net don't pull these motors apart and automatically assume 4.5 is the better one due to the extra 400cc. Respected superstock engine builders around this country who I have spoken with on the phone appear to be in unanimous agreement that the 4.1 is the better base platform, all logical reasons for which I have now covered multiple times across various threads.

next question is.. I think I read that the 90-93 45's are best, but is that also the case with the 41? I'm a bit concerned that this era seems to share the same 370 injectors as the VG30DETT. They aren't as good a design as you get on the 94+ VG and their expensive nismo 555 replacements don't last with ethanol when combined with the constant power / negative switched setup that existed until the injectors changed.. is the VH the same in that respect?

VTC was dropped in 96? but was that just the U.S version?

I can get this 41 nearby which is an early one or pay a tad more for a newer one with lower k's.. both have the spider manifold, I don't even know what year that changed. I guess I'll do some more googling for now!

What's to stop you replacing the injectors with better ones ? They're side feed, just like SR20 or RB25, so just buy 8 x high flow RB25 injectors and you'll be right !

Look to see if the TCS servo motor is black and the manifold plain & not anodised. If so, that's the motor you want. If it's some metallic anodised colour & the spider manifold & throttle are anodised like this too, then that's not the one you want.

[MikeH]

thanks for the info, I think the lower k engine had all the anodized bits, not the other one nearby... the prob with switching injectors is that with the VG at least you need to modify the lower plenum and I think the wiring from the ECU to accomodate the newer style.

I guess it don't matter that much, at least I'll have a good supply of 370's from the Z crowd if I don't go mad for power.

FYI, the newer style have the rounded connectors, old ones are square.

[Mettler]

Are VG injectors the side feed style ? I'll have a close look at my injectors tonight, I'm pretty sure they're the same as my mate's RB ones that he pulled out and replaced with Nismo 720ccs.

[MikeH]

yeah.. they're side feed but earlier ones had different pintel design and square connector, later ones got the rounded connector, are more reliable and I think cheaper.

VH45 12/1989 to 01/1993

VH45 02/1993 to 06/1996

yeah you can get aftermarkets in the earlier style but I'd stay away from nismos if you can't get fuel without ethanol and the injectors on the VH turn out to be always powered / negative switched like the VG.

[Mettler]

My injectors look like the later model ones, with the little plastic block with holes in the sides like in the pics you posted... but they're red.

[MikeH]

cool, that's good except I think that means they're 260cc? that'd be good for what, 350-400hp?

[Mettler]

I'm not sure the colour means anything at all, as I've seen many different coloured injectors, some of which have been the same cc rating.

I wouldn't mind some official nissan technical documentation that clears this up !

[MikeH]

that reminds me, have you found a service manual with the 41? seems info is scarce..

[hannibal]

^ http://carfiche.com/manuals020/cars/

If the 97 Q FSM is available, just check back as the site rotates them every few hours.

Here are FSM for each year of the Y33. But theyre in .rar format, and I dont have a program to 'unzip' them.http://www.phatg20.net/modules...id=62