VG30DETT in a S13>>

[zmegoby®]

I know it take time and money. I know it will be tight and interesting to fit Here is what I am looking at. Will the "kit" Mattback made work for the VG30DETT? I have not seen an answer to that question. I would like to know what crossmember needs to be used. I am wondering if anyone has any sites or pics of a VG30DETT in a S13. I am going to be doing the project. I am looking to take my setup that runs ~~500-550RWHP in my Z and put it in the S13 when I drop my new built engine in the Z. So my mods are done. All I need to do at this point is find out how to put it in there. Then I will do some more tweeks to get a little more HP and with a wet shot I will be at 650 - 700. I know it is kind of an insane number for a 240 but I am talking dyno numbers and not somethign I will be at 100% of the time. Daily driving I will be at around 500 to the ground. I look to use an ECU and the TT gauges for this. I want this car to be as daily drivable as possible. I drive the Z like this daily.

Also for the weight differnce I will have a sub and box with Amp in the rear. I will also have the battery. The VG30DETT since back on the crossmember so the weight is not towards the front like an I4 or I6. Also I look to put Coilovers on to make sure the nose does not drop in hard breaking.

Anyone to summarize:1) Any pics or writeups2) Does mattback have a product that will work 3) What are the things I need to be thinking about and getting ready for.

[Syntax360]

I wasn't aware mattback had finished the kit. Wouldn't the weight difference upset the handling of the car? Also, i'm sure it would be a PITA to work on anything on that setup if, say your starter went out. That engine would be crammed in there. I suppose it would work though - I've talked to a guy who's dropped a VG33E in a 240.

[sideshow]

theres a picture of one on http://www.meggala.com under hybrids, its the single turbo though

[Rownan]

Have you ever seen the engine bay of a 300zx? The VG30 barily fits in the Z32 chassis.

The swap would be an absolute nightmare... But an interesting one.

[96_S14_SE]

Mattback did a VG30ET, not a VG30DETT. That extra cam per head, the intake plenum, and the TT piping makes it a much more difficult task.

For the hassle headache and coustom work involved its not really benificial to use a VG30DETT in a 240sx. I have the means, VG experience, and engine stock available to me If I wanted to go that route, but it didnt seem worth while.

You can tune a KA or SR out to put down 400 hp rather easilly and reliably if you have the know how and flow. The benifits include less headache, same ease of working in a non stuffed to the gills engine bay, lighterweight, and Itll still be damn fast and usable. Hell a certain other board member runs mid 12's in a 250hp down 240 basically due to his insanely good launch techniques

Then again Ive seen a VG30DETT in a 510 so I know it can be done with enough voltages, some extra metal, and a big *** persuasion device..

[zmegoby®]

well since I have both yes I have seen it. I have measured the top of both and it will fit but that is not the important part. You can visually look and tell they fit. I am talking the bottom where the manifolds are and the wheelwells are. Can I just bang out the wells like we (Z32 guys) do with HKS 2835 and pentroof manifolds or is there a drastic space differnce? I am sure it will be interesting and fun. I am trying to get feed back on the spacing.

Does anyone have a apec drawing or CAD of the engine bay? I could use that to compare the two.

Thank you

[turbo300]

http://forums3.freshalloy.com/...art=1

[zmegoby®]

read through that post multiple time to absorb the details but that is a S14 and not a S13...I need S13 info.

Thank you though

[turbo300]

goby, what other kind of details are ya lookin for? the motor fits, plumbing and wiring should be the biggest challenges. what do ya have planned for intercooling, exhaust mani and dashboard funtionality? im doin a VG30DE in an s13 also, so mabee i can help

[McAdam]

here is what Ifound out while researching this swap......

in a 240sx you will actually have MORE room than in a 300zx. there is a measured 3.5inches more distanc strut tower to strut tower in a 240sx as opposed to a 300zx (z32) not to mention that the 300zx has a ridiculiously complicated front suspension set-up that makes it handle so well, which also steals room from the bottom of the engine bay. the 240sx is much simpler with just a strut and a lower control arm.

Also, as far as crossmembers go, i am looking into finding a bolt in crossmember to mount VG motors. reason i say bolt in, is because the R32 and R33 skyline front crossmembers bolt in to 240sx's for RB series powerplants. I know this for a fact, because I helped swap a RB20DET into a 1990 240sx. I beleive that either a Z31 or Z32 front crossmember may be used. I'll know more about this at the end of the day. i am going to measure my parents Z31 and then measure the spare 240sx crossmember I have laying about.

For the weight distribution thingy..... your car will wiegh more in the end, but it will be better balanced. with the VG most of the weight will be behind the front axle line. especially with the TT transmission. I have read that it actually IMPROVES weight distrubition. As a side note, if you went with a SOHC 300zx turbo, you'd probably only gain a few pounds, as in maybe 50. the VG30E is one of the lightest 6 cylinders ever produced.

sorry for the lengthy post! I'll post results of the measureing iof the crossmembers later on tonight!

McAdam

[zmegoby®]

THANK YOU!!!

That is what I am looking for. If someone had the info then I did not want to recreate the wheel

please let us know.

[McAdam]

I measured my moms Z31 1984 nissan 300zx as well as my 1989 nissan 240sx coupe. these are the measurements I got from each

....................................................................... . . 240sx 300zx

1. distance between lower control arm bolts ... 25.75" . . 25.25"

2. distance between steering rack mounts .... 11.24" . . .same

3. distance between chassis to crossmember .... 4" . . . . 3.75"

4. height difference between bottom and top ... 5" . . . .same

5. width of lower control arms .......................... 2.5" . . . same

hope this helps. also, the engine mounts are kind of tacked on the back of the crossmember instead of dead center. much like the RB mounts are tacked on the front. I think this crossmember can be made to fit a S13 chassis with very minor slotting of bolt holes and very minor re-welding. I think as soon as I sell me SAAB I will try it! one of my local junkyards has a 300sx turbo they'd let go for $250. thats cheap.

McAdam

[96sx]

...I just got goosebumps.

[mattback]

ok guys here's a couple of things.

z32 crossmember will be very hard to put into 240sx due to the wierd angle the steering rack vs steering shaft is put in . it can be made to work but it will be a pain in the ***.

scott and i both came to the conclusion that it wouldnt work without alot of pain in the *** effort, straight up.

z31 crossmember isn't a bad idea, i havent' done it personally or tried it but it might be close, both are macphereson strut up front so go for it you know.

my project is still in full effect, will be done very soon, here's a sneak peek:

[McAdam]

I just got wood looking at your intake manifold, mattback. I am looking forward to trying this. all I need is money! one distance I forgot to measure is over all width. from crossmember to chassis bolt holes to other side crossmember to chassis bolt holes. however, all the rest of the dimensions are so damn close, it shoudl be within half an inch. and you can slot bolt holes to make that line up! I'll let ya know tomorrow how that went.

McAdam

[zmegoby®]

okay here are my questions:

1) what Crossmember did you use Mattback?

2) Could I not use the 240sx crossmember with some modification (make new holes for the engine mounts? )

[McAdam]

well, good news, bad news and some just plain ole news!

as I suspected, i remembered one of the specs wrong. refer to the diagram a few posts up. measurement number 3, chassis to crossmember bolts yeah, its 3 7/8th for the 300zx and 5 1/2 for the 240sx. whoops. you could still "modify" to fit. however, the distance BETWEEN each side is within 1/4" of an inch on both vehicles! 30 7'8" on the 240sx and 31 1/8th on the 300zx!

few other measurements like firewall to engine mount is 12" on the 240sx and 16" on the 300zx. the difference in this measurement is attributed to the "crossover" tube for the exhaust on the back of the VG30E. also, the upper plenum on the intake manifold hangs a fair bit off the back of the motor. i suspect you could just turn the plenum 180 degrees so it is at the front of the motor instead of the rear. the exhaust can be solved by custom manifolds for a front mount turbo application. these are all problems I beleive MattBack has ran into and solved. i am just wondering how much an exhaust manifold kit will be once he has a chance to finish up?

I beleive it is entirely possible to modify the Z31 300zx front crossmember to fit into a S13 chassis. it would probably take about 2 hours, 3 beers, a big drill bit, a few peices of 1/4" x 2 x 6.5" flat iron stock, a cutting wheel or torch, a welder and a persuasion device to complete.

McAdam

[mattback]

have you guys even thought about where it would put the motor so that the stock driveshaft and shifter are where they are supposed to be ???

Mine puts my transmission in the eXACT location as stock i.e. i'm running an Enjuku Racing Aluminum driveshaft and b&m shifterset up

[McAdam]

yeah, i was thinking about that..... i was gonna take both motors out with the front crossmembers still attached and measure distances to the transmission mount and back of transmission and hack the front crossmember accordingly so it would mount up nice and stock.

I really do appreciate yoru efforts and your project, MattBack. I am just, how do you say it, oh you know cheap! lol plus I like to find ways to junkyard engineer things so other people can to, you know? so if I can make a Z31 front crossmember work for a few bucks, that'll help get word on the street out on this swap. at least to us die hard 240sx fans. don't want tooo much attetnion. last thing we need is SCC or superstreet doing a "how to" section on a VG swap.

McAdam

[240SXedUp]

Why dont you save your money and hassle and get a Z32TT

[mattback]

because they are way too heavy

[Onizuka]

this swap is concidered legal if the motor is the same year or newer than the car right? My freind wants to attempt a VQ35DE swap in his 98 240 in a year or two when you can get a motor for less than like $9,000