Valve tapping increase with synthetic oil??

Post by **PGrated** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Hey everyone!

I had started a thread earlier about synthetic oil and breakin time, etc. I was just wondering if those of you who are running synthetic oil in your engines have noticed an increase in valve tapping noise after you switched to synthetic oil. I know a few people who have heard an increase in this noise considerably on other cars (Acura 4 cylinder and Toyota 6 cylinder engines). I guess the question is also is there any problem with this increased noise??

I have not made the switch to synthetic yet since my G35 only has about 1100 miles on it yet. Like it was suggested, I will not make the completet switchover until about 8000 to 10,000 miles.

Anyway, any feedback on this from everyone would be appreciated.

pg

Post by **szh** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

PGrated wrote:I know a few people who have heard an increase in this noise considerably on other cars (Acura 4 cylinder...

I do not have an answer for your question, but I am wondering where you heard the above for an Acura 4 cylinder?

Literally yesterday, I was about to put synthetic in my wife's 1997 Acura 2.2CL and read your post and am holding off till I find out more about this! (I went ahead with dino Castrol GTX 10W-40 yesterday and will do synthetic later if this is not an issue).

Regards,

Z

Post by **PGrated** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

My brother in law had an acura integra (I think it was a 96 gs), which when he changed to synthetic early in its milege, it significantly increased the amount of tapping noise from the valves. When he sold the car to someone with 100,000 miles on it, the buyer noticed it right away. He had a compression test done on it and it was fine. The other car was a Toyota Highlander. The owner switched to synthetic and heard an increase in valve tapping noise. He was so concerned about it that he switched back to dino. The increase in tapping noise stopped.

BTW, I'm not sure how many miles you have on the integra, but switching to synthetic on a high milege car I have heard could be a problem. I think it has something to do with the viscosity difference and the molecular size difference in the oils. If You have been running dino for alot of miles, and switch, you may get some oil leakage from gaskets as well as some burning of oil. At least this is what I've heard. Other people on this forum may know more about the reasons than myself.

pg

Post by **szh** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Our Acura is a 1997 2.2CL with very low mileage. Yesterday, it was 41,546 when I changed the oil!

My wife does not drive it a lot. On the other hand, most of the initial 35k miles was non-highway (back roads). After I got my new M45, we take turns with it. So I get to drive the Acura on highways and have been putting a few miles on it.

My guess is that it is a relatively clean engine, although I am thinking of having a flush done on it just to be certain - primarily due to the lots of stop-n-go driving in the past.

Z

Post by **rydwhite** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

I'm sure that Fred could answer this question, but he isn't going to be around until after the 21st.

Post by **szh** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

rydwhite wrote:I'm sure that Fred could answer this question, but he isn't going to be around until after the 21st.

Yup!

My use of Castrol GTX is based on his dino oil recommendations! I decided to stick with that for this last oil change on the Acura till I learn some more.

Z

Post by **rydwhite** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Yeah, sounds like a good idea. I have never heard of a tapping from using syn, but there are alot of things I haven't heard of. I think if syn would harm an engine then Fred would not have recomended using it. I am pretty sure that there is no problem in the use of syn oil, but it is always better to make sure.

Post by **elwesso** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

You shouldnt hear an increase.... however, since synthetic molecules are smaller than the ones in dino oil, the drainback could be more significant....

I would say running a little thicker oil would be the solution for synthetic... Forinstance, if you run a 10w30, you might consider running a 10w40 in synthetic....

I still wouldnt use synthetic oil until you hit 10,000 miles.... but ultimately speaking, it doesnt really matter what type (syn or dino)of oil you use as long as it gets changed regularly!

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Any 30 weight grade of Mobil1 runs in the thin range of the 30 weight spec.0w-30,5w-30 even 10w-30 MOBIL1.

You didn't specify which brand of syn you used.

Try Mobil1 0w-40 (great winter thru summer oil in a N/A engine, hard to find mostlty at autozone), or Castrol Syntec in 0w-30 ONLY, <must> say made in Germany and <not> say "energy conserving" on back. to be the right syntec 0w-30 (yes there are 2 kinds of very different quality).

The one I am referring to is almost a 40 weight, think of it as a 0w-35 weight oil, and is an import of the famous european castrol SLX.

Both of these oils have performed very well in Nissan/Infiniti engines and/or engines that share design features.

Which is not to say that other good oils dont exist, and many non syns are pretty decent as well.

But the above are my favorites for most Nissan Infiniti applications, when you are willing to spend a bit extra for the syn oil.

Valvoline SynPower 5w-40 is another good choice, especially for higher mile engines, but doesnt match the winter performance of the other 2 mentioned above.

Fred...

PS: Ryan, I just stopped by to see how u guys r doing..PS#2: Good Dino's are GTX, Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, Good Blend: Valvoline Durablend.

Post by **Cold_Zero** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

I think I made the switch over to Synthetic at 6k. The car came with Valvoline Durablend. I have not noticed valve tapping in my car.

Post by **240slider** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

I like to use mobil 1 syn5w30 . I only noticed from use that very close to your next oil change you will hear slight lifter and cam action not necessarily tapping .I guess because of the thinner viscosity of the synthetic oil. but right after changing the oil it quiets right down.

Post by **mayaworld** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Does anyone know what the dealers use? Took my G35 for my first service and notice more knocking.

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

mayaworld wrote:Does anyone know what the dealers use? Took my G35 for my first service and notice more knocking.

My loal dealer uses Mobil Drive Clean some use Durablend 5w-30.

It depends on the region.bring your own oil.

Fred...

Post by **szh** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

mayaworld wrote:Does anyone know what the dealers use? Took my G35 for my first service and notice more knocking.

Frontier Infiniti in San Jose, CA uses Quaker State 5W30 for all the Q45 work that I had had done there. First M45 oil change was the same, so I did the last one at 3750 miles with Castrol GTX 10W40 at an independent (Precision Tune in San Jose.)

I suspect that the G35s at Frontier Infiniti get the same Quaker State ...

Z

Post by **SoCalTed** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Running Mobile 1 for the first oil change and Havoline for the second.... I am at 7400 miles and no knocking or tapping.

Cheers, Ted

Post by **JKs350GT** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Is it possible to describe how valve tapping noise sounds like, like a noisy diesal engine? And is engine knocking/pinging the same thing, sounding like marbles hitting in the engine? I didnt experience it yet but would like the heads up

Post by **elwesso** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Valve tapping sounds like someone is under there breaking twigs or tapping a stick against something..

Knocking sounds more like something hitting metal really hard, more of a CLANGY noise

Post by **timware** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

it sounds like this

http://www.timware.org/Recording5.wav

however, it ticked with M1 DriveClean 5w-30 Non-syn. May be alittle louder with M1 syn. I've certainly noticed it more. Went syn at 5K (thats 95% city, so it was time). Recently, my service manager suggested it was a loud injector. Dunno.. My blackstone didnt show anything scary, so I'm trying not to obsess about it... trying.....

Post by **timware** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

but I hear this and I forget all about it....

http://www.timware.org/Recording12.wav

(not the crickets

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

The DriveClean is a group I oil, not strong enough for a performance engine like the VQ35de.

The Mobil1 Syn 30 weights are kinda infamous for tapping noises.

Oils known to cure this on occasion are:

10w-40 Valvoline Durablend.15w-50 and 0w-40 Mobil1 5w-40 ValvolineSynPower5w-40 Kendall Syn5w-40 Chevron Supreme Synthetic10w-40 Chevron Supreme ( Dino with group II+ base oil)Redline 5w-40

And many others.

Fred..

PS: dont use Fram filters.PS#2 Nice links

Post by **timware** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Hmmm, I got a decent Blackstone with DriveClean. Doing 3K changes, I think DriveClean would be ok. I used info from VQ35 maximas to choose a dino before going to syn.http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=227996

Not sure I want to go to 40 with M1 Syn.

Using a PureOne filter for now. Plan on snagging some K&Ns from Grubbs. (nothing local I can find). I picked up a M1 108 for my next change and it was full of metal shavings! They double threaded the filter

I took it back and found several others on the shelf that way. What was my last m1 filter

Post by **elwesso** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Fred. I thought you said that a 15w50 weight was too heavy??

Post by **JKs350GT** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

timware wrote:it sounds like this

http://www.timware.org/Recording5.wav

however, it ticked with M1 DriveClean 5w-30 Non-syn. May be alittle louder with M1 syn. I've certainly noticed it more. Went syn at 5K (thats 95% city, so it was time). Recently, my service manager suggested it was a loud injector. Dunno.. My blackstone didnt show anything scary, so I'm trying not to obsess about... trying.....

Timware, I have listened to your Recording5.wav and mine sounds the same as yours, I am too running Mobil 1 5W-30 (switched at 3500 miles), dealer always puts 5 quarts, I currently have 18,000 miles. My first Blackstone looked great at 7250 mile test, they said all wears were normal and the engine appears to be run carefully, similar to yours.

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

elwesso wrote:Fred. I thought you said that a 15w50 weight was too heavy??

It was an example on what kind of oils you see no tapping noise wfrom.

Also in a south CA summer it wont be too heavy, but in Indianapolis ( where you live) a 40 weight would be a better all around choice.

Fred...

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

timware wrote:1)I got a decent Blackstone with DriveClean. Doing 3K changes, I think DriveClean would be ok.

2)Not sure I want to go to 40 with M1 Syn.

1) You can get a good UOA from any oil if the intervakls are short enough and the application undemanding enough.

2) Why not?

Fred...

Post by **timware** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

PalmerWMD wrote:1) You can get a good UOA from any oil if the intervakls are short enough and the application undemanding enough.

2) Why not?

Fred...

1) I do alot of city driving, even syn gets alittle weak at 3-4K. I'm not extending my intervals.

2) I have many of my own arbitrary, unproven, superstitious reasons

Post by **G35DP** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Switched to mobil synthetic after 1200 miles and i think its 5w 30 and no extra noise here. very happy with it and I am thinkin about switchin it to royal purple.

6mt coupe

Post by **timware** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 pm

I was using the PureOne. I noticed over on bobistheoilguy that the PureOne sample they were using (in Fords size, 40psi, oil at room temp) had like a 40% drop in pressure! Yikes. The K&N has about 12% drop across it. I immediately switched to K&N and my noise has decreased greatly. (still using M1 5w-30)

I also had the same sounds with the OEM filter. Also VERY much reduced is the timing chain rattle at startup

Valve tapping increase with synthetic oil??

Valve tapping increase with synthetic oil??

Re: Valve tapping increase with synthetic oil??

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