valve problem i think.. worth it to fix? or replace entire engine?

[SHIFTrl240]

the engine in my 240 would always make a rattling noise right before gear shift when you are high on the revs on the auto transmission, it was coming from the front end so i knew it wasnt from the transmission itself. but yesterday when coming home from the store the rattling turned into a loud, light, metal-to-metal banging noise coming from under the valve cover, sounds like in the head, like a valve or something. i was just curious about whether or not to take on the job of repairing the head and maybe making some upgrades, or to just replace the engine with a somewhat newer ka. i dont have the money for an SR right now or i would def do that. i dont have any specialty tools, and dont have extensive knowlege of the internals of the engine, so this is why i ask how hard it would be to fix. the engine is a 91 KA24DE with about 150-160k on it. it is an auto, so i was thinking that i could probably also swap out the transmission for a manual while i am at it. any help and advice would be appreciated. i dont know what else i should list for more input, so please ask if you think you could help me. THank you all very much.

[NISTECH]

pop the valve cover off and check your upper chain guide. coulda broke off. if so just chuck it its not needed. pretty common for that to happen. if that aint it you most likely got a chain prob more then a valve prob.

[SHIFTrl240]

i have the cover off, its sitting in my garage with the plugs and wires out. the top guide that was on it has already been removed. i checked the chains and had someone crank the engine while i looked at them turn. after the engine cranks and then you stop, you hear like a very soft *plunk* like something fell down in place somewhere.

[NISTECH]

where is that noise coming from specifically? is it in the chain area or is it near the rear of the engine?

[SHIFTrl240]

its hard to tell because it was so loud, and the engine would stall shortly after start. but i believe it was more towards the middle-left of the valve cover

[NISTECH]

i need to be clear on your left and right here. when reffering to sides of a car it is always as if your sitting in the drivers seat. therefore left would be drivers side of valve cover area?

[SHIFTrl240]

oh sorry i am thinking as if standing in front of the car. it sounded like it was coming from more of the right-middle of the engine. the intake side

[NISTECH]

is it possible your starter pinion is the source of the noise? It could be hanging up on the flywheel while the car is running and dropping back when you shut it down? also in that area of the intake is the pcv valve, but typically they are not that audible. Another moving part that would change position on stall would be the iacv.

[SHIFTrl240]

would these things make noise while driving at 40-45mph speed? it really sounded like one of those 'big 6' wheels that you see at festivals when you spin it. it would increase in frequency when the engine revved also.

[NISTECH]

try this ...get your car back together. fire it up(I am assuming it will run) once running take a medium ball peen hammer and smack the starter while the car is running. do not hit the solonoid on the starter hit the starter itself. then try driving it. get the easy stuff out the way first.

[SHIFTrl240]

ok im gonna have to run out and get new wires since one broke when removing it, i'll go do that now. thanks alot.

[NISTECH]

BTW your ? was if its worth it to rebuild it. I would say yes. we just had 2 different model nissans in the shop the other day with 300,000 + miles on them and they are both still running strong. Amazing what proper maintance can do for ya.

[SHIFTrl240]

Ok, i got the replacement wire and hooked it all back up. the knocking is coming from somewhere down there, i can hear it VERY loudly from the middle area of where the injector assembly is. slightly right of where the #3 injector is where it is loudest. at 2500 rpm it is loud enough to deaden my hearing. it also will not run now, it will only stall out within a few seconds of releasing the gas.

as far as the servicing goes, i have only had this car for a couple months, the guy that owned it before said he took good care of it, but it doesnt look like it from what ive seen so far. i have been changing the oil almost every month because the first time i changed it was pitch black oil. i been using m1 synthetic 10w30 since i bought it. i have had good intentions but the previous owner didnt

[SHIFTrl240]

oh and also, i meant my question is is it easier/more cost effective to replace an internal part or would it be easier/more cost effective to just replace the entire engine?

i have had several other problems with this engine, and i have noticed it is leaking coolant now. it was dripping onto the compressor belt from somewhere and dripping onto the ground. it has also been guzzling oil, and i think it is the valve stem seals because it only happens at idle and when i take off from a stop, never when it is revving.

Oh and happy birthday nistech! :

[SHIFTrl240]

oh and also, i didnt notice while i was driving with it sounding like that if it was overheated or not, but when i parked it it was about 1/4 of an inch from the H dot. the highest i have ever seen it. i dont know if this happened before or after the fact but just another observation. thanks

it also will not go over 2700 rpm

i tried hitting the starter while revving at about 2200, and no change. but it seemed like there were pieces getting kicked around somewhere from inside the engine, i couldnt place from exactly where because i was sitting in the drivers seat. it olny happens when you try to rev higher

[SHIFTrl240]

bumpity bump

[NISTECH]

you could have something going on with the lifters or something. if the noise is so loud its defning that sound like more then any of the typical solonoids. with out actually hearing the noise I am not sure i could help you pin point it. the only advise i could give you is to think about what in the area of the noise has movement and try to determine what it MIGHT BE by the nature of the noise, like hammer hitting concreate or woodpecker pecking wood. silly analogy but if you can match the noise to one of those descriptions or one of your own it helps narrow it a bit.

[p00t]

Timing chain should be inspected and replaced if nessisary around 100k -120k miles. if you drive your car and the guides are dead, letting the chain eat at the block, soon it will eat far enough into it that it will rupture a coolant passage or the chain will snap, both senerios mean bye bye to your engine.

you say its coming from the front of the engine correct? have you changed your timing chain and guides?

the rattling you were hearing before could have been the chain eating through the last remaining bits of your guides. now it is chewing against the block (which is very loud).

do you have the tools nessisary to take off the front covers? or have a friend that does?

all you need is silicone gasket (to seal the front cover back up) and metric sized ratchet peices

take off the mechanical fan and anything in your way. take off the valve cover and front covers. inspect the chain thoroughly. look at where the guides are (or should be)

if the guides are in peices or are very worn, there you go!!! timing chain job time!!!

when putting the front covers back, scrape the old gasket material off and apply a new bead all the way around where the old stuff was.

[SHIFTrl240]

the sound is coming more from the center-right area of the engine. when i put my ear next to the #3 injector, that is where it is the loudest.

It sounds EXACTLY like one of those wheels that they spin at festival games, but extremely more loud. do you know what i mean, or is it an ohio thing? they play gamb|ing games with them like Big 6 or raffles and stuff. kind of like plastic hitting metal?

[SHIFTrl240]

the only tools that i have are a socket set, various wrenches, screwdrivers, a mallet, pliers, and thats about it. no torque wrench so i dont want to screw it up

[NISTECH]

try this get the engine warmed up then shut it down. remove the valve cover and try to push down on all the lifters that arent being pushed down by the cam lobes then rotate the engine and do the ones that were being held down by the cam lobes before rotating engine. continue doing this til you have checked all lifters. see if any of them feel extreamly easier then the others. if you find one that pushes down very easily. this may be your culprit ,a colapsed lifter. I have not gone after the chain area since you say it sounds to be in the middle of the engine. but it is not to say that it isnt a blown hydrolic tensioner.

[SHIFTrl240]

ok, i will try that when i get home from work, but you want me to warm up the engine..(lets say it is a lifter) will i do more damage to something if i run it? it will not idle, it will stall a few seconds after releasing the gas.

[NISTECH]

just get it to operating temp so that the oil fills the lifters . if it is a weak lifter it wont hurt the engine since the lifter is weak it is not pushing the valve open all the way. if you have internal engine problems running it could damage it more. the fact that it wont idle may not be related to the noise.

[p00t]

yea but you didnt answer my question... have you ever replaced the timing chain?

[SHIFTrl240]

i only got this car about 3 months ago, i dont know if the previous owner had but the chain didnt look bad when i last looked at it. i decided since i dont have the space or tools im just going to send it somewhere and they can deal with it. i tried to get it to operating temp but it keeps stalling, wont rev up enough to keep going so i had it towed this morning down to the mechanic.

[s13sr20chris]

t-chain inspected or replaced every 120k? maybe if you never change your oil. or if some doofus(dont ask how i know) puts the front main bearing in backwards(z24 with oil squirter for chain in bearing). chain should last long time.

[NISTECH]

let us know what the mech comes up with. there is one other incedent that could make alot of noise but it is rare and have only seen it maybe twice. a broken cam shaft. Which would cause a serious run problem.

[SHIFTrl240]

alright i'll let you know as soon as i know. thanks for all the help guys, i really appreciate it.

[SHIFTrl240]

i just called today and the guy said its going to need a new engine.. he said it is a rod that is knocking and making that sound. he said it would probably be around 1700 depending on how cheap he can find an engine for. does this sound about right?

i'm not an expert on the internals of engines or anything but it seems like that wouldnt happen after only 140-150k miles when ive heard of some going 300k+

[S13 Power]

bump... whatever happend to your engine SHIFTrl240??

I barely got my SE-R and the SR20 is doing the same ****. I know the enigne is gone. Same thing happend to my honda but damn i just bought this car a week ago and im already looking into a new engine