Utter Stupidity

[nissangirl74]

I know this belongs in the Politics forum but I also know Jesda and MoD don't go in there and I want your opinions on this.

It's Bonus Season on Wall Street and the 5 Biggest Firms have set aside nearly $90 billion for bonuses.

I am all for earning what you deserve, but this seems like a colossal waste of money considering how unstable the entire economy (seems) to be. If they have this type of money to throw around, I have even more questions now than I did two years ago.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/This-Bonu ... 8.html?x=0

[PEZi]

[Razi]

D:<

[sx moneypit]

You cause an economic collapse then you get a nice fat bonus.Nice.

[R/T Hemi]

It's trickle down economics. Give all the money to the rich, and they'll trickle down on the rest of us. Never mind whatever it is that's trickling down is wet and warm. I'd have more to say but this doesn't appear to be a a proper venue for government bashing.

[Encryptshun]

It's trickle down economics. Give all the money to the rich, and they'll trickle down on the rest of us. Never mind whatever it is that's trickling down is wet and warm. I'd have more to say but this doesn't appear to be a a proper venue for government bashing.

You make a lot of sense for a noob.

[RCA]

It is really simple. It's all relative.

These top 5 firms made nearly a trillion dollars this year. They did so because of the work of there highly paid, highly talented people.
If there was a 10 trillion dollar market out there, you can bet your butt that companies will do everything in there power to make as much as possible.

When there is 10 trillion to be made, what is 90 billion dollars in bonuses? .9% (not even 1 percent)
If a market's value is 100 billion dollars then you might see bonuses of the same percentage but less money.

I honestly have no problems with the bonuses, it's at a companies discretion to provide intensives.

• "You make me 100 billion dollars and I will give you a 20 billion dollar bonus."

I am all for earning what you deserve, but this seems like a colossal waste of money considering how unstable the entire economy (seems) to be.

Major financial firms aren't hurt by recession like the middle and low income people. With the insane amounts of capital they have, they can take a hit and quickly bounce back. It isn't a waste of money when these people are bringing in 99.1% more money than they are earning.

[Jesda]

Its not really that simple, nor is it an example of so-called trickle-down economics. This is simply pay for performance.

Or just read razi's post above.

[LocAL_anarchy]

My complaint is the tax breaks they receive. They are completely sheltered by the government. If you can make that kind of money, albeit by unethical and possibly illegal means, good for you. But you should pay up like everyone else.

[Dattebayo]

Yeah, I don't really see why it's our business to complain about what other people get paid by their company, really.

Sure it's excessive, but what isn't in their world anyway? Many of their regular Joes get a piece of that bonus money, too...

[themadscientist]

I am by no means advocating this, but if things like this continue someone whose anger may or may not be justified will take a step over a line that is in no way justified and one of these fat cats will get shot in the head on the way to a limousine and die in a pool of blood on the sidewalk.

It's going to happen. People are in dire straits and this sort of orgy of self-serving excess, essentially fiddling while rome burns, is salt in the wound. Some unemployed guy is going to be sitting in his living room, looking at a newspaper devoid of any jobs and a pile of bills coming due and decide it's hopeless. While he is spinning the cylinder of a revolver and building up to using it to check out, a story like this pops on the radio or TV and a blood-red light over his head will go "ding." The headlines the next day will detail what he just thought up.

[alms24sebring]

The point is that no one person NEEDS millions or billions of dollars in a lifetime, especially in 1 bonus of 1 year. I believe that people who make this money should give it back more in taxes, how does that not make sense? After all, the people that make all of this money and hold it, are a puzzle piece in the issue of economic collapse.

I still think some football players get paid too much.

[themadscientist]

The point is that no one person NEEDS millions or billions of dollars in a lifetime, especially in 1 bonus of 1 year. I believe that people who make this money should give it back more in taxes,

Who are you to say what someone else may earn? I'm serious. I can guarantee you, no matter how much you make, someone somewhere makes less and thinks you should give them the difference. Would you?

Why should the government have the ability to steal from you the fruits of your labor? Why should others be able to live off of your production against your will?

how does that not make sense? After all, the people that make all of this money and hold it, are a puzzle piece in the issue of economic collapse.

It's redistribution of wealth, it makes sense only in a socialist model. If you subscribe to that model, fine, I don't, most Americans don't except those that think they are owed something by the act of existing.

Now, the second part of that has merit. I believe anyone should be able to enjoy the results of their efforts. These people gained what they have through dubious means and destroyed the lives and the economic states of millions of Americans. THAT is absolutely indefensable. I am all for punishing crooks. I am not for arbitrary success caps.

I still think some football players get paid too much.

Football players generate revenue for many entities. People treat sports figures as individuals, but they are actually more like assets. The owners see profit, the league, paraphenalia suppliers, and ticket agencies do too. They earn the money they make every night they are out there getting destroyed.

And how much of that money that they earn in the few good years they play will have to be used to combat health effects of the abuse they take. Tell the retired player with depression, memory problems, dizziness and headaches from CTE they make too much. Tell him again when he forgets, because he will, because he is all messed up from trading his health for a couple of mil for the profits of others and the entertainment of people who think he makes too much.

http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0 ... 21,00.html

Stop worrying about other people's money and concentrate on your own. Don't make too much though, someone else will tell you you don't deserve it and ask the government to take it.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Just a quick fun fact taken from 2007.

The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

[Jesda]

The point is that no one person NEEDS millions or billions of dollars in a lifetime, especially in 1 bonus of 1 year. I believe that people who make this money should give it back more in taxes, how does that not make sense? After all, the people that make all of this money and hold it, are a puzzle piece in the issue of economic collapse.

I still think some football players get paid too much.

1. Not yours
2. They already pay it


Saving and investing is in part how a healthy financial system is supported. We've instead cheapened money and pushed ourselves into a spending-driven economy. We've reached a point where unnecessary spending is actually seen as an act of virtue. Trust me, the rich (and I dont mean hood rich) don't "sit" on money. Its planned, invested, and builds upon itself, extending its reach into the financial system and playing a role in the global macroeconomy.

[themadscientist]

lol at "hood rich."
It's all about the Hamiltons.

[alms24sebring]

Who are you to say what someone else may earn? I'm serious. I can guarantee you, no matter how much you make, someone somewhere makes less and thinks you should give them the difference. Would you?

Why should the government have the ability to steal from you the fruits of your labor? Why should others be able to live off of your production against your will?

1) if I made tens of millions yearly, yes, I would donate money to something or somebody whether its a charity, non profit, or throwing a bum a cool 50 because I think about other people. Sometimes that bites me in the a$$ though. If I made $50,000 a year, I may only donate $100 and the bum can have my spare change, but I am still giving something.

2) Because they make more. Stealing is kinda harsh too. Now I think this gets very complicated in an economy especially with so many people out of work, and those people that refuse to work because they know the gov't will pay them to live, not saying everyone is that way, but I bet there is a descent percentage that collect unemployment and sit back a eat cheetos and drink beer all day. One example is my dad..

It's redistribution of wealth, it makes sense only in a socialist model. If you subscribe to that model, fine, I don't, most Americans don't except those that think they are owed something by the act of existing.

Now, the second part of that has merit. I believe anyone should be able to enjoy the results of their efforts. These people gained what they have through dubious means and destroyed the lives and the economic states of millions of Americans. THAT is absolutely indefensable. I am all for punishing crooks. I am not for arbitrary success caps.

I would have to agree with that. Who doesn't want to enjoy the results of their efforts? I dont see it as owing money to exist either. The gov't creates these bills and all to try and help others and to help even the balance of rich and poor, and everything in between. I didnt mean to come across as putting salary caps on people either, that wont happen. My only point was the more you make, the more you pay in taxes reletively. As far as the crooked and greedy political figures that steal these millons.. they should be punished to the full extent.

Football players generate revenue for many entities. People treat sports figures as individuals, but they are actually more like assets. The owners see profit, the league, paraphenalia suppliers, and ticket agencies do too. They earn the money they make every night they are out there getting destroyed.

And how much of that money that they earn in the few good years they play will have to be used to combat health effects of the abuse they take. Tell the retired player with depression, memory problems, dizziness and headaches from CTE they make too much. Tell him again when he forgets, because he will, because he is all messed up from trading his health for a couple of mil for the profits of others and the entertainment of people who think he makes too much.

After posting this I thought about this and I would also have to agree as well. I heard on the radio that some mid 90's linebacker had 2 knee replacements and 2 shoulder replacements recently. I totally understand the risk they are puutting on their bodies and lives, and that is why they have multi million $ contracts, along with being looked at as assets bringing in money for a franchise. Thats a good way to put it and its true. Also skill level brings in more money as in any job. I think the thing I was thinking about was maybe 4 years ago when a baseball player, who's name I dont remember, got a I believe $358 million contract in 5 years or something. C'mon now, that's alittle obsurd.

Im not saying people dont deserve good money and I would also agree with Jesda about reinvesting it into a business. There are alot of great jobs that influence most that pay little. A good example being teachers who I think should be paid way more for giving education for the future generations. Ive been there. Ive been in places that require alot of manual labor, long stupid hours including all day on major holidays, and brutal pay, Im talking barely $500 every 2 weeks after tax. It sucks. But there are also easy, simple jobs that take no effort or thought I think are too generous. An example of that is a friend that gets paid $25/hr to put cones up for road construction, sits on his a$$ smoking cigs and shooting the s** until the shift is over, and pulls them back. THATS IT.

What happened with the $750 billion stimulous? Tens of milions in tax free bonuses to company CEOs. Granted thats the company's faults (not Obama's)and some did give most of it back, but it tells a story of how materialistic people are in the US. People that have $100 million homes should be able to support the US's well being. Its like owning an expensive car. If you can afford to buy it, you can afford to pay for expensive maintenance, insurance, and everything else that goes with it.

Im no economist but I think there is an unbalance in the US economy for very complicated reasons that I dont inderstand. Im not promoting salary caps, Im not promoting that people work for the gov't for free like slaves. Sure I hate paying taxes too but I know I have to and it makes me feel ok about it when I think about it. Just saying, surely some of that $90 BILLION can go to other people that actually need it.

[themadscientist]

I am also for a progressive tax rate. Flat taxers fail to recognize the steep curve as you get near the bottom of the pay scale where fixed expenses take a stunning amount of one's take home pay. I don't mind paying a little bit more than someone who makes less than me as long as the government doesn't get greedy about it. No special rate for capital gains and no estate tax. Why is earning money through investment any different than other labors? A "death tax" is double jeopardy. Any money passed on to your family was already taxed in some way during its accumulation.
The complicated tax code benefits the rich who can hire a cadre of tax lawyers to find loopholes and government that can confuse and rob anyone who can't. Let's have a fairly tiered simplified tax code.
It always pisses me off when people talk about "government money." IT'S OUR MONEY!

[sentrastace]

wtf. thats more than annoying.
I work for a company that made 100mil in revenue this past year....my boss, the director of PR got a $300 bonus for xmas. He was generous enough to give me half for my hard work.
the CMO, who works directly above him makes over a quarter mil a year.
*shakes head*

[Jesda]

Its like owning an expensive car. If you can afford to buy it, you can afford to pay for expensive maintenance, insurance, and everything else that goes with it.

You're analogy is broken because you subtly suggest that the owner of the Aston Martin should also throw you a free oil change for your Nissan for the good of American motoring.

Wealth and poverty are temporary conditions. Those advocating for social justice fail to recognize upward and downtown mobility in a free market. Of course, once government regulations, progressive taxes, and other heavy-handed measures fall into place, that mobility is reduced and everyone is poorer as a result with greater obstacles to creating wealth and success.

I can't come from a third world country and agree with Americans on the view that anyone above me owes me anything. You are entirely responsible for yourself, thus the importance of religious organizations, extended families, and neighbors. I trust all three of those more than government as none of them put a gun to anyone's head demanding money and compliance.

Income tax is damn near evil, and progressive income tax is nothing but a tool to create class warfare and empower politicians. Make the pie bigger through heavy taxation and people will rely on you more to fight for their share of it. Congress creates a need for itself as a result. Brilliant scheme.