UpRev at last! ~ almost

[ken in az]

The Pro Tuner for UpRev has recieved my file and tuning can comence as soon as I can find time to schedule my car for the Dyno tuning.

They still don't have the Cam Timing control available for manipulation, but everything else is tunable.

If all goes as well, it should be done by the end of the month as I'll be out of town all next week and have no time this week to do it.

How does that song go......"I'm so excited, I just can't hide it, I know I know I know I want Uprev!" OK, maybe it doesn't go like that, but really, I'm excited.

5 tunes will be able to be loaded into the ECU switchable by the cruise control switch. I'll have the stock tune for 91octane, a tune for 100octane, Valet tune to keep it under 55mph and below 3500rpm, a tune for 91octane cutouts open, a tune for 100octane cutouts open.

Then I'll start compiling the parts for forced induction. I plan to use 2 smallish T3 turbos or T25's to run approx 4-5lbs of boost on 91octane with intercooler(s) for whatever is necessary.

Should kick some arse!

[fiveliterbeater]

now what about WOT manipulation? are they going to be able to get rid of the factory restrictions that keep the car from unleashing full power from a start?

[M4T5]

Well... that's good to hear.What took them so long to get all the info needed??When you say they don't have the cam timing profiles yet, will they be getting them?Wouldn't extra power be wrapped up in the cam timing profiles?Will the cruise control functions work normally or will it be removed when using this function to manipulated the ECU's parameters? That's cool, but I would only let them do it that way if everything still functioned normally. So...your thinking about putting turbo's on the M now?? If so, those cut-outs may need to go to keep more pressure in the exhaust system. How are you going to have the turbo's installed? Sounds really expensive. You must have 100 dollar bills falling from your money tree lately! I will have to lay under your tree for a bit, while your away I guess! Well...I wish I could do more to my M, but it keeps plaguing me with more problems after another!!!! Now the A/C quit working today!! My wife is pretty mad and fed up with the car now.I will be taking it into Infiniti tomorrow to have everything fixed! These are the parts that need to be fixed now:

*Replacement of both front door panels (the color is peeling off)

*3rd time back to the dealership for the memory seats not remembering our seat settings!

*Repair the A/C system

The major item that needs to be fixed, but will take time: My dealerships final review over if my engine will be getting replaced or called normal for smoking and burning oil!

This car is really a mess of crap in my opinion!Sorry, but having to take the car into the dealer more than 6 times in a 4 month period is not what I would call reliable in any sense!!!!That's taking it in for problems a little more than once a month! Give me a break!

J

[M4T5]

now what about WOT manipulation? are they going to be able to get rid of the factory restrictions that keep the car from unleashing full power from a start?

The WOT manipulation is not really affected from a dead stop. The engine could not use all that air in the low-mid rpm band anyways.Now if they can get 100% WOT to happen in the upper rpm band that would be great!The sluggish take off has to do with the VDC control, TM (torque management), and possibly the cam timing profiles. Ken really didn't elaborate on if UpRev can disable the VDC 100% or if they can remove certain percentages of TM or not. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think UpRev can reprogram the M's transmission shift points or increase the shift response as of yet. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Either Ken or UpRev would have to answer these questions.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

i couldve sworn it was ken or someone else that made a statement saying that our car must have some restrictions from the start and throughout the powerband and some of those restrictions include a non fully open throttle blade. i dont see how it cant help us out in the long rung to give the car just a few more ponies by having the throttle fully open.

[M4T5]

That's just it. That's a good question. Will increasing the throttle blade to 100% in the upper rpm actually increase power on a relatively stock 4.5L engine?It is quite possible that Infiniti restricted the throttle blade to around 80-85% open due to more air flow not being needed for the hp/ tq output of the engine.

Infiniti vehicles are not the only auto brands that do this to the drive by wire system. GM also limits their throttle blades to around 80-90% open at WOT. What's the real reason for them doing this?? I would like to know. Unless what I stated above holds true.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

GM also limits their throttle blades to around 80-90% open at WOT.

...now that you mention it, i modded the TB on both my old LS1's. its called the "bump stop mod" and what you do is sand away part of a little "stump" that prevents the throttle blade from fully opening up. so i sanded them down so the blade was fully open 100%. it's kind of a tricky mod though cause if you sand away too much, the thottle blade could reverse and flip around the other way hurting performance.

[ken in az]

now what about WOT manipulation? are they going to be able to get rid of the factory restrictions that keep the car from unleashing full power from a start?

Yes, they will tune it out to give the ultimate throttle control. The M, much like the Titan, has a WOT control off the start. The titan actually holds back WOT till 40mph. I don't think it is as severe with the M but it is definitely there. At the track is where you will find this to be the most useful since it will let you leave the line with full power potential.

Rumors about WOT restrictions up top in the rpm band and for shifts are there, but after adding this shift kit I have my doubts. It shifts pretty darn good and if I short shift on slippery pavement it'll chirp the tires pretty good.

[ken in az]

Well... that's good to hear.What took them so long to get all the info needed??

They have alot of other higher priority projects going on vehicles with owners that actually mod their cars. Most of the M population is satisfied with the stock level of performance.

When you say they don't have the cam timing profiles yet, will they be getting them?

I don't think they'd find them unless someone brought their vehicle to them for testing. The tables for that are not labeled so they can't just jump in and find them. The analogy they gave me is that the table for the cam timing is much like a house that your friend lives in. You know what the house looks like, but you don't have directions to it so it'd be like trying to find the house with no directions in a big neighborhood. The tables are dynamic, so if a vehicle was there for testing they could easily find it.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't extra power be wrapped up in the cam timing profiles?Absoloutely. Finding those and manipulating that value would give a lot of gains

Will the cruise control functions work normally or will it be removed when using this function to manipulated the ECU's parameters?

Yes, check out their website, they list exactly how that would work. I think you hit the cancel button and the set button to cycle through the tunes and watch the MIL light to verify what tune you are running.

That's cool, but I would only let them do it that way if everything still functioned normally.

Everything still works as normal and this tune is undetectable by anyone. If you ever loose the tune because you took your car to the dealer for service and they uploaded an update, you can simply upload the tune from a pro tuner or send your ecu bac to them for programming.

So...your thinking about putting turbo's on the M now?? If so, those cut-outs may need to go to keep more pressure in the exhaust system.

I'd move the cutouts to after the turbos.

How are you going to have the turbo's installed?

under the car next to the transmission if there is room

Sounds really expensive. You must have 100 dollar bills falling from your money tree lately! I will have to lay under your tree for a bit, while your away I guess!

I wish - lol I work hard and I play hard - thats just how I live

Well...I wish I could do more to my M, but it keeps plaguing me with more problems after another!!!! Now the A/C quit working today!! My wife is pretty mad and fed up with the car now.I will be taking it into Infiniti tomorrow to have everything fixed! These are the parts that need to be fixed now:

*Replacement of both front door panels (the color is peeling off)

*3rd time back to the dealership for the memory seats not remembering our seat settings!

*Repair the A/C system

The major item that needs to be fixed, but will take time: My dealerships final review over if my engine will be getting replaced or called normal for smoking and burning oil!

This car is really a mess of crap in my opinion!Sorry, but having to take the car into the dealer more than 6 times in a 4 month period is not what I would call reliable in any sense!!!!That's taking it in for problems a little more than once a month! Give me a break!

J

I feel your pain, I've never used the memory seats in my car so I have no idea if it even works for my car.

[ken in az]

The WOT manipulation is not really affected from a dead stop. The engine could not use all that air in the low-mid rpm band anyways.

Not true, these cars do have wot restrictions from a stop

Now if they can get 100% WOT to happen in the upper rpm band that would be great!

Yes!! But I wonder how much power would be realized??

The sluggish take off has to do with the VDC control, TM (torque management), and possibly the cam timing profiles.

VDC had nothing to do with it, when it is off on our car, it is truely "off" but the TCS(traction control) system on the other hand does operate when you have your foot on the brake and the ga at the same time which limits the throttle to reduce power when wheelspin is detected.

Ken really didn't elaborate on if UpRev can disable the VDC 100% or if they can remove certain percentages of TM or not.

VDC is not a programmable item, but when we turn it off it is really "off" Torque management has to do with the throttle and ignition and fuel timing, these parameters should be controllable but like I said before, with the shift kit it's hard to tell if there is any TM.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think UpRev can reprogram the M's transmission shift points or increase the shift response as of yet. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, they cannot program the TCM(transmission computer). But we have the Transgo shift kit to adjust the firmness and the manual mode that is darn near like a full manual valve body so you can shift whenever you want.

Either Ken or UpRev would have to answer these questions.

J

I hope I hit them good enough, I don't think the uprev guys visit this board - ever

[M4T5]

--On the VDC/ traction control concerns.

When the VDC is turned off, when I stomp the gas (no brake pedal is used) and the tires begin to spin, I will see the slip light come on and power is reduced. Unless UpRev can remove this from happening, we will still be plagued with real on road problems of fast take offs. UpRev will tune it on the dyno, but the tires will not slip on the dyno causing this senerio that we will experience on the real pavement not to surface.

--About WOT at take off.

Why would there be the need for the throttle blade to be open at 100% in the low rpm band? Unless the engine needs that much air, I really don't see where the gains would suffice from. The MAF system will restrict the amount of fuel going into the engine due to the air velocity not being high enough at low to mid rpm ranges for the injectors to operate at 100%. So, why would this be any different with the throttle blade opening at 100% at low rpm take off speeds?

J

[M4T5]

...now that you mention it, i modded the TB on both my old LS1's. its called the "bump stop mod" and what you do is sand away part of a little "stump" that prevents the throttle blade from fully opening up. so i sanded them down so the blade was fully open 100%. it's kind of a tricky mod though cause if you sand away too much, the thottle blade could reverse and flip around the other way hurting performance.

The GM throttle bodies I was actually referring to were the DBW (Drive By Wire) type throttle bodied vehicles.

J

[ken in az]

--On the VDC/ traction control concerns.

When the VDC is turned off, when I stomp the gas (no brake pedal is used) and the tires begin to spin, I will see the slip light come on and power is reduced.

That is wierd because Mine definitely does not do that. When I stomp the gas and the tires start to spin, they spin till 2nd gear no light other than VDC off on the dash. Is yours a 2007? I know that changes were made to VDC systems from year to year. Do your tires spin or does it pull the throttle plate closed preventing wheel spin? I removed the Yaw sensor that the VDC needs to work and there was no difference other than the RAS light was now on. Oh yeah, forgot yours isn't a sport either - do you have Brake Assist and brake sensing seatbelts?

Unless UpRev can remove this from happening, we will still be plagued with real on road problems of fast take offs. UpRev will tune it on the dyno, but the tires will not slip on the dyno causing this senerio that we will experience on the real pavement not to surface.

I can guarontee you that they can't program the VDC or Traction control, but there are other ways to stop that from hapening but it would involve either unplugging a sensor/switch or splicing wires from them to turn certain things off like VDC and TCS

--About WOT at take off.

Why would there be the need for the throttle blade to be open at 100% in the low rpm band? Unless the engine needs that much air, I really don't see where the gains would suffice from. The MAF system will restrict the amount of fuel going into the engine due to the air velocity not being high enough at low to mid rpm ranges for the injectors to operate at 100%. So, why would this be any different with the throttle blade opening at 100% at low rpm take off speeds?

J

I can't go into the physics of why they do it, but I can tell you that this is the worst launching car I have ever driven. Brake torque launches at the track are so gutless it is pathetic. My grandma's 1985 lebaron 4 banger could pull better 60ft times than this car. Hell, my 7000lb 2wd diesel truck pulled 2.0's where this silly little car can only muster a 2.2 60ft time!

And maybe what you are missing is the brake torque launch. that is where this car needs help. Even when I disbled the TCS, the car would roast the tires sitting still, but out of the gates on the track it still had traction, but still launched like a little girl.

[M4T5]

And maybe what you are missing is the brake torque launch. that is where this car needs help. Even when I disbled the TCS, the car would roast the tires sitting still, but out of the gates on the track it still had traction, but still launched like a little girl.

Has anyone taken in consideration that the torque band of the 4.5L engine is only in the mid to upper rpm range? Even with ultimate traction, without low end torque or a higher stall converter, our cars will just not launch hard.My car pulls the hardest from 5,000 rpms to 6,800-6,900 rpms. Of course that's right where it needs to shift. When in manual mode, I bump the shifter right at 6,500 rpms. By the time it actually shifts, it will hit between 6,800-6,900 rpms. That's just before it hits the rev limiter of course.Too bad UpRev cannot decrease the manual mode's shift delay. That would make manual mode and the performance so much better.I really don't see why UpRev cannot hack into the transmission ECU. If the engine ECU can be, I 'm sure the transmission ECU is no where near as complex.

J

[Tranzor]

...now that you mention it, i modded the TB on both my old LS1's. its called the "bump stop mod" and what you do is sand away part of a little "stump" that prevents the throttle blade from fully opening up. so i sanded them down so the blade was fully open 100%. it's kind of a tricky mod though cause if you sand away too much, the thottle blade could reverse and flip around the other way hurting performance.

Nice... another former LS1er. I did the same mod on my '01 Camaro Z28, along with a whole host of others... as I recall, the throttle blade only opened around 85% or so stock, and shaving the bump stop helped get it closer to 100%... but you're right, you had to be careful not to go too much. You can also shave down the blade itself, making it more streamlined... last of course, is the actual port & polish of the throttle body. All in all, that modification gave about 5-10hp, plus a better throttle response feel.

Something similar has to be available in these 4.5L engines... but the tune would have to match to get any real gains.

[M4T5]

Something similar has to be available in these 4.5L engines... but the tune would have to match to get any real gains.

Nothing like that is available anywhere for the Infiniti 4.5L engine.

J

[ken in az]

Has anyone taken in consideration that the torque band of the 4.5L engine is only in the mid to upper rpm range? Even with ultimate traction, without low end torque or a higher stall converter, our cars will just not launch hard.My car pulls the hardest from 5,000 rpms to 6,800-6,900 rpms. Of course that's right where it needs to shift. When in manual mode, I bump the shifter right at 6,500 rpms. By the time it actually shifts, it will hit between 6,800-6,900 rpms. That's just before it hits the rev limiter of course.Too bad UpRev cannot decrease the manual mode's shift delay. That would make manual mode and the performance so much better.I really don't see why UpRev cannot hack into the transmission ECU. If the engine ECU can be, I 'm sure the transmission ECU is no where near as complex.

J

The torque band is in the upper rpm range? Wierd because my dyno graph says otherwise. Actually at 5200rpm is where the power valve opens and the torque drops like a rock. 4the gear will actually only go to 6600rpm but 3rd will go to 6900 with a well timed shift. This engine has nearly 90% of it's torque at 2500rpm and possibly lower since my dyno doesn't start till 2500rpm.

From what everyone says the manual mode shift time is drastically reduced when a proper grounding kit is installed. at least thats what the ricer G35 and 350z crowd says.

The problem with the TCM is that it is an external piece and it doesn't share the same attributes as an ECU. It'd be nice if it did but I'm more than happy with the transgo shift kit.

[M4T5]

The torque band may be in the low rpm range, but mine actually pulls harder in the upper rpm range. At least it sure seems that way.Maybe my exhaust has to do with this feeling....I don't know. All I can say is, it didn't feel that way in the upper rpm range until I installed the exhaust kit. In manual mode mine will pull to whatever rpm (up to 6,900 or 7,000rpm's) in any gear. I haven't tried it in 5th gear of course. I don't have the balls to reach those kind of speeds on a highway with other cars on it.What I can say is, it is much faster in manual mode than auto mode.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

hey bud i just wanted to say that i called UpRev and they have a local shop (several actually) here in SoCal, to take my car to and get it hooked up and download their tune. their cost however is $600 and it includes 4-6 hours of dyno tuning plus a membership to come back in the future and get re-tunes in case i decide to add more parts.