On my 92Q I have been using Yokohma's YK420 225/60/15 (H rated) tires for about a year - on and off I had to take the car back to Discount tires for rebalancing (hunter 9700, etc).
The shop offered me to upgrade to the Michelin Pilot H4 for an additional $150. He is giving me the entire money back for the Yokohamas Yk420 (around $400)
Is it worth it? My current set of tires probably only have 5K on em.
I did not have a lot of luck with these Yk420 tires - so far 3 times rebalancing and 3 times hunter 9700. May be the problem is with my car (Drive shaft and Motor mounts perhaps).
I would shell out the money if I know the pilots will feel better than the Yk420 - even if the vibration does not go away completely. Is Michelin Pilot H4 better than Yk420?
Recommendations?
Thank's
Upgrade from Yokohama Yk420 to Michelin Pilot?
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Michelin uses more expensive materials and xrays every tire and has better robots than Yok.
Years of experience has shown that Michelins stay rounder and more in balance than any other brands...........still like all tires they need rebalancing and rotating every 3,750 miles.This shows that the required extra or location weight changes are less so less damages incurred in the previous 3,750 miles.
The 235/60/15 Michelin Pilot H4 is the only tire I've used consistantly. The smaller sizes 215/225 are less robust and don't offer the improved load index the 235 does. This extra 120 pounds of capacity makes me think the tire is safer and might actually meet the H rating USED in a hot summer.
For Spring I have 215/65/15 AVS Intermediates [last set I could cry!] on the front and 235 Pilot H4 on the rear........for my vacation I use 235 H4 on the front also since the smooth ride is important when you do 600 miles in a day.
Years of experience has shown that Michelins stay rounder and more in balance than any other brands...........still like all tires they need rebalancing and rotating every 3,750 miles.This shows that the required extra or location weight changes are less so less damages incurred in the previous 3,750 miles.
The 235/60/15 Michelin Pilot H4 is the only tire I've used consistantly. The smaller sizes 215/225 are less robust and don't offer the improved load index the 235 does. This extra 120 pounds of capacity makes me think the tire is safer and might actually meet the H rating USED in a hot summer.
For Spring I have 215/65/15 AVS Intermediates [last set I could cry!] on the front and 235 Pilot H4 on the rear........for my vacation I use 235 H4 on the front also since the smooth ride is important when you do 600 miles in a day.
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
You must decide whether you want a DIRECTIONAL OR A NON DIRECTIONAL TIRE as the cost of flipping on the rims every other rotation [every 7,500 miles] can double the cost of the tire's actual cost................
The ES100 doesn't come in a 15" size suitable for a Q.
Why are they being so generous on the YK420 replacement could it be they know something we don't.
MOST Tires just are not designed to handle the Q front weight or stress it imposes in turning!Even the 600 pound lighter G35c is having problems as they stretched the performance envelope so much to get 0.9G handling.....thats only 950 pounds per tire vs the Q's 1160.
The ES100 doesn't come in a 15" size suitable for a Q.
Why are they being so generous on the YK420 replacement could it be they know something we don't.
MOST Tires just are not designed to handle the Q front weight or stress it imposes in turning!Even the 600 pound lighter G35c is having problems as they stretched the performance envelope so much to get 0.9G handling.....thats only 950 pounds per tire vs the Q's 1160.
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
If Infiniti thought enough to supply the car new with the most expensive Michelins {Sport XGTV] that money could buy in 90-93 do you think anything less costly or inferior would have worked!
Why would the factory have wasted money on more tire than they needed?
Don't even imagine that the $115 pilot H4 [even The $127 Pilot V4] is anywhere close to the superior tire that came on the Q new ---- just all you can buy today. Even the 94-96Q came with a custom made Dunlop [D80V4] which destroyed itself in 15,000 miles.
Based on dollar inflation the M tire would be over $240 [today] each, much like todays Michelin Pilot Sports as used on the G35.........hope I am getting thru to owners..........that 99% of the 15" tires are absolute junk. Even the best ones are inferior and won't deliver the performance of the oem tire!........because they are too hard and last too long!
Owners say they want performance until they see the cost!
Why would the factory have wasted money on more tire than they needed?
Don't even imagine that the $115 pilot H4 [even The $127 Pilot V4] is anywhere close to the superior tire that came on the Q new ---- just all you can buy today. Even the 94-96Q came with a custom made Dunlop [D80V4] which destroyed itself in 15,000 miles.
Based on dollar inflation the M tire would be over $240 [today] each, much like todays Michelin Pilot Sports as used on the G35.........hope I am getting thru to owners..........that 99% of the 15" tires are absolute junk. Even the best ones are inferior and won't deliver the performance of the oem tire!........because they are too hard and last too long!
Owners say they want performance until they see the cost!
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
90-93 OEM s[tire pattern:http://tcpneus.ifrance.com/tcpneus/images/XGTV.jpg
Pilot H4:http://www.1010tires.com/Miche...%20H4
Why anyone needs directional tires is beyond me considering the problems they create.
Just manufacturers way of cheating the need soft rubber problem in wet.
Nice to see that some of the 18" premium tires are now over $500 eachhttp://www.1010tires.com/tire....Sport
Pilot H4:http://www.1010tires.com/Miche...%20H4
Why anyone needs directional tires is beyond me considering the problems they create.
Just manufacturers way of cheating the need soft rubber problem in wet.
Nice to see that some of the 18" premium tires are now over $500 eachhttp://www.1010tires.com/tire....Sport
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AZhitman
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Great reason for those of you still on 15's to upgrade.
ES100: 245/50/16... 96W, 280 AA/A, 1576lbs @ 44psi...
Tory, I may go ahead and go for it if I can scratch up $200 somehow (can't come from the budget or I'll be on the couch).
BTW - Even at a 400 treadwear rating, tire life is significantly reduced. My YK's are approx 35-40% of tread depth after ONLY 7K miles (8.5 months).
ES100: 245/50/16... 96W, 280 AA/A, 1576lbs @ 44psi...
Tory, I may go ahead and go for it if I can scratch up $200 somehow (can't come from the budget or I'll be on the couch).
BTW - Even at a 400 treadwear rating, tire life is significantly reduced. My YK's are approx 35-40% of tread depth after ONLY 7K miles (8.5 months).
Okay guys - I will be short $150 coming Monday. I am reading though the 235/60/15 is preferred - I will try my luck, the price qouted was for the same size (I think) and not the plus size.
As to why they are willing to upgrade: (1) They may return the tires to the manufacturer as perhaps defective [do you think Yoko will question Discount tires?](2) make more money by selling higher priced set of tires(3) make money again on labor (balancing, etc)(4) I have already been to them 10 times in the last 10 months - they loose money everytime they see me (free erbalancing for life, etc) ...perhaps willing to cut the losses.
If the Michelin's would not feel any better, I would consider this to be my share for boosting the economy!
Thanks again
As to why they are willing to upgrade: (1) They may return the tires to the manufacturer as perhaps defective [do you think Yoko will question Discount tires?](2) make more money by selling higher priced set of tires(3) make money again on labor (balancing, etc)(4) I have already been to them 10 times in the last 10 months - they loose money everytime they see me (free erbalancing for life, etc) ...perhaps willing to cut the losses.
If the Michelin's would not feel any better, I would consider this to be my share for boosting the economy!
Thanks again
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
If a tire is bad in 15" it is probably bad in 16" or 17"
All the 4300 pound cars have the same problems unless the suspension is so soft and wishy washy that the car doesn't handle well which means drivers don't even attempt to push the cars Lincolns, big Fords, Caddies, etc
Check out the tires used on big MB, Audi, and BMW ...current LS430 etc.
All the 4300 pound cars have the same problems unless the suspension is so soft and wishy washy that the car doesn't handle well which means drivers don't even attempt to push the cars Lincolns, big Fords, Caddies, etc
Check out the tires used on big MB, Audi, and BMW ...current LS430 etc.
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AZhitman
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VimyJ wrote:Your Q's are obviously very hard on tires. I have 420's and love them. No problems (knock wood). The extra 4-500 lbs seems to make a difference according to your complaints.
Don't forget that extra "few" HP and a "tiny bit" more torque...
Where you been, Vim? All is well I hope.
p.s. I read up on Vimy Ridge, which I'm assuming your screen name comes from - Good history lesson.
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
The agressive camber gain curves and static negative camber plus the camber gain in turning. Worn suspension get more negative [strut towers bend inward, bushings wear inward].
Most radials work best with a negative 0.5 degrees of camber [Q specs at -0.7] but most plain cars have no camber to avoid the inside wear problems [giving up a little handling in the process].
The Q suspension was designed to work with one tire only the discontinued Michelin Pilot XGTV which had special inner and outer edge reinforcements [and a stress releaving edge cut]to handle the stress. The tires wore out in 15,000 miles if rotated every 3,750 miles.
The only current tires I've seen that look good [wear flat across the tread] at 15-20k are the Pilot H4/V4 and the Fstone SZ50.
The Q really should have had 1650-1700 load index tires but Michelin always beats the published ratings [by using stronger more expensive materials in the same sizes compared to other manufacturers] so the factory felt safe in using the 1521 pound tires. AFTER all the tire was strong enough internally to take the abuse till the tread worn down. Why worry the tire was shot before too many internal structures [wires] broke.
It was assummed that owners would always replace with like kind not cheapen up and buy non standard tires to save money.
Very few tires can take the stress and deliver the handling.
I get very nervous when my tires exceed 20,000 miles and find some excuse to change them.
The J30/Q41 strut suspension is much much less stressful on a tire than the 90-96 Q twisted angled back upper link design.
Yet even the Q41 has tire problems easily solved by going to the Michelin Pilot Z4.
Most radials work best with a negative 0.5 degrees of camber [Q specs at -0.7] but most plain cars have no camber to avoid the inside wear problems [giving up a little handling in the process].
The Q suspension was designed to work with one tire only the discontinued Michelin Pilot XGTV which had special inner and outer edge reinforcements [and a stress releaving edge cut]to handle the stress. The tires wore out in 15,000 miles if rotated every 3,750 miles.
The only current tires I've seen that look good [wear flat across the tread] at 15-20k are the Pilot H4/V4 and the Fstone SZ50.
The Q really should have had 1650-1700 load index tires but Michelin always beats the published ratings [by using stronger more expensive materials in the same sizes compared to other manufacturers] so the factory felt safe in using the 1521 pound tires. AFTER all the tire was strong enough internally to take the abuse till the tread worn down. Why worry the tire was shot before too many internal structures [wires] broke.
It was assummed that owners would always replace with like kind not cheapen up and buy non standard tires to save money.
Very few tires can take the stress and deliver the handling.
I get very nervous when my tires exceed 20,000 miles and find some excuse to change them.
The J30/Q41 strut suspension is much much less stressful on a tire than the 90-96 Q twisted angled back upper link design.
Yet even the Q41 has tire problems easily solved by going to the Michelin Pilot Z4.
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szh
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Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO! - Location: San Jose, CA
Q45tech wrote:The only current tires I've seen that look good [wear flat across the tread] at 15-20k are the Pilot H4/V4 and the Fstone SZ50.
Yes! I now have about 13k miles on my Firestone SZ50EP tires (which are a replacement model to the SZ50 you mentioned) and am down to about 3/32- 4/32" of depth across the tire. And, yes, I will be replacing them soon with G35 six-spoke 17" rims and 245/45-17 tires.
I did have to increase the pressure from my original 34psi choice to 36psi to keep the wear more even.
Z
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AZhitman
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- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
I think I'll reconsider and hit them up to swap me into the Michelin Pilot XGT H4, 255/50/16. Tire Rack has these for $104, so perhaps Discount will go along with that price....
I'm less and less happy with the Yoko's the longer I have them. They have gotten HARDER over an eight month period than I'd like to see, and we haven't even hit the hot weather yet. Plus they're at LESS THAN 8K miles and have less than 50% of tread remaining (although they wore evenly).
I'm less and less happy with the Yoko's the longer I have them. They have gotten HARDER over an eight month period than I'd like to see, and we haven't even hit the hot weather yet. Plus they're at LESS THAN 8K miles and have less than 50% of tread remaining (although they wore evenly).
Had my 420s rotated and balanced today at Discount. One rear tire was less than 1/2 ounce off the rest were fine. The tires look new after 6k miles. I am totally impressed with these tires so far. They are 100% better than the POS Goodyear Eagle HP's I had before. Sorry you guys in your heavy and unconventionally suspended Qs are having so much trouble.
AZ, eveything is cool. Re my screen name, as if you couldn't tell before, I'm hardly a pacifist.
AZ, eveything is cool. Re my screen name, as if you couldn't tell before, I'm hardly a pacifist.
BTW, While waiting at Discount, I looked at the siping flyer again. There was a close up thermal infrared picture of a tire section as it is making contact with the road and the siped tire showed much less heat build up. (For what it's worth.) But you heavy car guys in hot climes do have heat build up problems. Heavy trucks use siping to reduce heat.
255-50-16s on Nissan's lovely 300ZXTT rims (rears all 'round) probably work very well if your struts are good -- "probably" because I haven't replaced my struts yet. I have gotten a little fender interference in back on big bumps with rear passengers. Little or no interference when I'm driving alone or with one passenger (99% of the time?) This combo delivers a *distinct* handling improvement, except for tramlining (my new word for this month) on rutted roads or on peaky seams in the asphalt -- I think it may be the tire's wide center groove trying to follow any line presented to it. Other ideas? Identical rims front and back at least allow you to rotate directional tires F/R without remounting, which would cut that remounting expense in half over their life. 255 seems to be a very strong tire size from most manufacturers. Kumhos are 99 load rated, 280 treadwear (220 in the MX-series), *not* M+S thank goodness, about $100 a piece out the door, a price you get at Discount by showing them the TireRack ad. The wheels and tires together look absolutely phenomenal -- no bling-bling, just brawn-brawn. The 16-inch wheels will save you money in the long run, 'cause good 15s are just too darned expensive. No opinion on wear characteristics yet, but I'll have 1000 miles on them by the end of the weekend.
