Update on Infiniti negotiations...

[don85259]

I have to admit, Midway Infiniti was really righteous in terms of trying to do a deal, at least compared to Pinnacle Infiniti. To recap, Pinnacle offered me 9k on trade for my 96k 1998 Q45 which is in perfect condition and probably worth closer to 15k. When I attempted to explore this further, Pinnacle in essence told me to get lost and they didn't really "want my car."

Gee, I guess you guys didn't really "want my business" as I've spent thousands maintaining the Q at Pinnacle over the last five years.

Midway came out of the box at 11, then went to 12, and finally 13.5k, plus they were willing to sell me a red G35 sedan for sticker. Both the GM of the dealership and the sales person I worked with (John Irrizarry) were very professional and pleasant to work with.

Alas, the best laid plans of mice and men tend to go awry, eh? There's this little thing called a FICO score. We worked a nice deal and then they pulled my credit. Mind you, every lease payment on my Q45 has been made perfectly on time. I have no negative items on my report. I own a house, have some credit cards, etc. All perfect. Sure, I have some high balances (I own a $400,000 home in Scottsdale) but it's all good, for the last six years. I've been with the same law firm for over ten years now.

My FICO score when I bought the Q was in the mid 600s five years ago. You would think my score would be better now. Well, you would be wrong. My score now is 560. Very bad, as if I had just filed bankruptcy (which of course I have not but I'm starting to think that paying your bills on time is a waste).

After I finish law school, the second class action lawsuit I will file is against the credit bureaus for this mysterious scoring system that you cannot appeal and are not permitted to even know how it works. Now that companies are using it to issue car insurance, credit of all types, and sometimes even job offers, it's time to shed some light on this @$$crack of the financial world. It's a good thing I'm not shopping for new car insurance or looking for a job...a crappy score of 560 basically means I can't finance a Tonka toy truck from K-Mart, much less a $33,000 G35.

So, I will soldier on with my Q45. There are certainly worse cars out there to be stuck with (i.e. most of them). Like an aging but still beautiful movie star, she still can turn heads. I have dispatched my last lease payment to Bank One and now I will wait for the other shoe to drop come July 27.

Thanks guys, for your kind tips and assistance at trying to negotiate the pitfalls of purchasing vehicles.

--don

Parting pic:

[RobHakari]

man... so close... yet so far away. that sucks the big one.

not to sound rude or anything(i've been looking for these for a while), if you're forced to give up your car to the bank or something, wanna cut me a deal on those rims?

[AZhitman]

You're second in line, Rob.

I'm 3 weeks ahead of ya.

Don, sorry to hear that... I have often wondered about that scoring process as well, coming from the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum (my house payment is approx the size of your lease payment).

[Jeff Williams]

Quote »plus they were willing to sell me a red G35 sedan for sticker[/quote]

Why would you be paying sticker for a G35 sedan? I would think you would at least get a $1,000 discount for being an existing Infiniti owner.

[Q45Viper]

A couple of tips on FICO scores, everytime anybody checks your credit for anything it lowers your score. So don't randomly apply for anything. Don't apply for ANY credit unless you are sure you're gonna buy. For example every time you take a test drive you might give the dealer your drivers license and your social security number, in some states just the information on the license is enough for them to pull the credit report. Also your credit can be negatively affected if you have maxed out all your cards, in that case it might be good to get another. That part of the scoring has to do with how much you have available to borrow on your card and how much you've used up. But it gets worse, lets say you've paid off all your cards but you still have them available, they will mark you down for that because you still have the availability of the cards to borrow on, only way to get ahead of that one is to cancel a lot of your cards if they are paid off, that will immediately raise your score. And if in this example on this thread the car payments are ending that should raise his score significantly. There is also a new law at least in Maryland starting in July (It may be national) that will allow anyone to pull your credit score anytime they want to, telemarketers come to mind, that will of course allow all the banditos to push all of our scores down and then charge us higher interest. This one you can opt out of by going to the websites of the three big credit agencies, Equifax is one, can'ts remember the other two names right now, and opting out of that program. Actually there may be one website to do it for all three.

[Q451990]

After I finish law school, the second class action lawsuit I will file is against the credit bureaus for this mysterious scoring system that you cannot appeal and are not permitted to even know how it works.

I was under the impression that you can request copies of your credit record from each of the three reporting agencies yearly at no charge. I'd check to make sure there's nothing there that shouldn't be - or get one of those freecreditreport.com deals just to make sure.

Sounds to me like there's some negative information there that shouldn't be there - or your debt to income ratio is very high. I'd think your lease payment (that you've made on time) would offset your new car payment - so it should be a wash... You might also make absolutely sure that the lender for your G35 understands that the payments on your Q would disappear at the same time.

Heath

[PalmerWMD]

See this thread for Credit info:

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....25668

Fred..

[J-Owner]

Hey guys check out my post titled "credit repair info" I think it will be helpful.

As for Q45Vipers post let me add to that. He is right about the random inquiries, however, if you test drive a car and they have your license number and SSN that doesn't mean they can just pull your credit. You have to give them permission to pull your credit by signing a credit app. To pull it without permission is illegal under any circumstance. It is also not a good idea to max out your cards and then try to apply for another. One reason being I doubt you get approved for another card anyway because any bank will quickly realize what you are doing and decline you, unless you have excellent payment history and your income supports your type of credit limits.

To pay off all of your cards DOES NOT count against you and WILL NOT lower your score. It will actually increase it. While yes, you do have the potential to run out and max them out, it also shows that you pay your bills and payment history is more important than balances. By paying off your balances and not carrying any balances you increase your score and increase your risk factor weighted against everyone in the country, meaning you are less risky to issue a card to because you do pay your bills.

DO NOT just cancel cards. That can definetely effect your score for the worse. It depends on your situation and I don't know what that is but this can definetely hurt you.

Finally, while I am somewhat aware of the new law you are talking about which is not in place here in Texas, I can say without a doubt that this will not lower your score. This will not even count as an inquiry. It will count towards people that have viewed you report which happens all of the time without you knowing it like your card companies that are monitoring your other accounts, people who do a check of your score to see if you qualify for there products and then send you jun mail, etc. Again, this WILL NOT lower your score and WILL NOT count as an inquiry and you are right you can opt out.

Anyway, there is my two cents.

[don85259]

I have the report from all three bureaus (merged report) provided by my partner who is a realtor and has that ability from mortgage lenders. There is an old $75 collection account from a parking ticket which I had refused to pay (I can be very stubborn) on matter of principle. Apparently they now report that to the bureaus and that is really killing my score.

There are no inquiries other than through Midway. I would not let Pinnacle or anyone else run my credit. Also, all inquiries incurred within a short ten day period are treated as one and only affect your score by about 5-10 points or so (best guess).

Everything else is paid on time, for the last decade.

The finance manager at Midway said there is something screwed up with my score. He thinks it should be at least 680, based on what he has seen in other credit apps.

Oh well. Nothing can be done at the moment. Part of this is the blatant discrimination a non-married couple that own property suffer versus a married couple, because of the joint property laws in marriage situations we have in Arizona.

Assuming I cannot secure financing to buy the car outright, then AZHitman has first dibs on those shiny chrome wheels. If he declines, then I'll let that "vulture" Rob have a peck at them.

--don

[J-Owner]

Don,I would contact the credit bureaus and find out why the score is that low because that is not correct. You can pay your bills on time and still have your credit cards maxed out and that will drastically lower your score.

Again, I do not know your situation and I am not saying that your cards are maxed. I am just saying in that instance then that could be why your score is low.

If you carry low balances on your cards and the only negative aspect on your report is a $75 collection for an unpaid parking ticket then yes, the bureaus have screwed up your reports somehow and you should definetely have at least a 680 FICO. I would check into it ASAP and try to get it cleared up.

Oh, and inquiries reported within a ten day period do not always count as one. If you have several from the same company then what you are saying is correct.

If you have one from Citibank, MBNA, AMEX, Discover, FIrst USA, etc. on different days then you are dseperate to get a credit card. If it is several inquiries for like differetn mortgage companies, insurance companies, car dealerships, etc. then it is sometimes obvious to everyone you are shopping for the best deal. Again, depends on the situation.

Best of luck to you on everything.

[don85259]

You cannot complain about your FICO score to the bureaus. Only inaccurate accounts such as late pays you were not late on, or wrong party information, can you contest.

Considering I paid the ticket in December (and that's what the reports reflect), I have a hard time believing that is the "serious recent delinquency" they are talking about in the reports, but there is nothing else that could be.

They also claim "credit history insufficiently short" which makes no sense, as I have had car loans going back to the late 80s and credit items since the mid 80s.

FICO scoring sucks, plain and simple. It can be flawed and there is nothing I can legally do about the scoring process right now.

As for my other debts (besides the car and my mortgage), I have about $12,000 in total revolving credit, all of it paid perfectly for the last decade. I'm at about 80% of my limits. All of it paid timely and generally always more than the minimum payments. There are married people here at the firm that make half of what I do and have three times as much debt, yet have FICO scores well over 700, and they are nearer to their limits than I.

None of this scoring stuff makes any sense. I've been in my relationship for over ten years now, and I've had three car loans (all paid perfectly) during that time. I guess paying your bills on time and paying more than the minimums does no good. I have half a mind to stop paying anything and just tell my creditors to kissoff. My score would not be much worse than it is now.

--don

Oh, and the kicker: When I bought the Q45 five years ago, I was still showing a bankruptcy filing discharged in 1992. That has since gone off the report and yet my score is lower now than then. WTF?

[PalmerWMD]

I decided this would also be a good thing to have in our showroom forum, so I copied it to this forum.

Fred...

[J-Owner]

Hey Don,You are right you can't complain about the FICO score to the bureaus just the info that effects it. I wasn't saying that. I also agree with you that credit scores are bull@#$%! I wasn't trying to justify the score I was just trying to explain how it works. I too hate them with a passion and if you could legally bomb business' I would drop one on Experian. Unfortunately, there is nothing any of us can do about it, just figure out how to beat them at there own game if possible, if not then suck it up and live with it.

As tempting as it would be to tell your creditors to kiss off that wouldn't solve your problems. Hang in there.

I have no idea why your score is so low but you are more than justified in being pissed. I hate that you have to go through all of that but I am sure if you dig alittle you can find out why it is what it is and perhaps how to get it straightened out.

I don't know what to tell you but I wish you the best in getting it fixed.

Take care.

[Jeff Williams]

Some POS computer, somewhere is keeping you from getting a new car. Man, that is screwed up!:mad:

Although, suffering in a sweet ride like yours, is bearable.

[PalmerWMD]

Although, suffering in a sweet ride like yours, is bearable.

hear hear.

Fred..

[Tgvince]

Hey Gang... There is also a fourth credit agency that boosts being the "secret" Credit agency. The name alludes me at the moment but ill find out what the name is agian and post it here for all to see.

Terry97 Q45

[J-Owner]

If there is a fourth credit bureau then you are the only one in the country that knows about it because there is no fourth in the finance industry.

If you find out the name of it please pass it on because it is news to me.

Thanks.

[Tgvince]

OK gang here it is the name of the fourth agency its called Innovis. They brag that they are the "Secret" credit agency.

Terry

[J-Owner]

I checked out this website that Terry mentioned Innovis. I have to say that being in the finance industry I would not order a report from this site. Based on the information they are rquesting to order your report it appears that they are a company that builds databases of your information that they then sell to companies that distribute mass mailings to you.

With the info they ask for, Copy of your driver's license, copy of utility bill, last two mailing addresses you have lived at, I would not order a report from these people. That infomation alone is enough to commit identity fraud. This could even be a fraudulent site because they are just two small write-ups on two pages. There is no in-depth description about what the companies does or how they report or anything.

Seriously, in my professional opinion I would urge everyoe not to purchase a report from these people. I will see if I can investigate them some more and see what I can dig up but I assure you that there are only three consumer credit bureaus that everything is tied to in this country from a score aspect and that is Experian, Equifax and Trans Union.

If you order a report from Innovis do so at your own risk.

[Tgvince]

Thanks for shedding light on Innovis. I had a friend mention them. I have had no personal experience with them.

Terry

[Tgvince]

Hey Gang, I did a little research on this myself...I can say for a fact that this was at least an up an up company from 97-99 as I work for First Data and if they owned it then then there for real. How it is now i have no idea. So I dont think its a scam or anything like that. Matter of fact there data is stored and proccessed at my facility here in AZ. Which is a large Data Center operated by First Data Corp. How Ironic....LOL

Terry

[RobHakari]

hm.. vuluture you say??? ok... i'll go with that title:)

i'm also kinda keniving(no clue how to spell it, just spelt it like it sounds, so say it phonetically, or whatever), so i'm sure i can find a way to kill AZ and get those from you