Uh oh, dropped half moon seal . . .

[elbles]

No, no, I don't mean anything obscene or profane, heh.

I took the valve cover off my car today, to see how much slack is in my timing chain (after 6,000 miles in 9 months, I'm having a timing chain problem with what was a newly rebuilt engine, and they'll only cover up to $450 in labor costs to do it, don't buy Recon guys) . . . in the process of doing that, I knocked one of the half-moon seals out of its "socket", and of course, with my luck, it didn't go outside the engine, but deep inside, all the way down to the oil pan. Unable to drive my car like that, I "had" to take my dad's S2000 out (heh, the only good part of the day, what a great car) and get another half-moon seal. Well, I got that in, and my car starts and runs OK, aside from the timing chain rattle (which I'll reluctantly take into my mechanic for a $800 fix next week). But will it be OK to run the car with that piece down in the oil pan? I don't forsee it melting or anything, but how detrimental could it be to the engine?

Also, with all the problems I've had with my car (and the expenses of fixing them), I've been going back and forth with the idea of getting something else. Lately, I've been toying with the idea of a FC3S (third generation RX-7 coupe, preferably a S5, made from 1989-1991), which I should be able to get for a very decent price (less than $4,000 easily), and there happens to be one around me with "42,000 original miles" supposedly. If anyone could chime in with some comments there, I'd appreciate that too . . . I know about a few of the common rotary problems, and I've checked a few sites about them, but personal experience would help too. :-)

[IvoryJ30t]

the only detrimental affect i can think of is it clogging the oil pick up. but there is a screen on it, so that shouldnt happen.

im psyco about things like that, and if i were you, i would remove the oil pan and retrieve it.

[elbles]

Hehe, thanks for the reply. I went nuts when it dropped down there, as it didn't go to the bottom right away, but in the process of trying to retreive it, I knocked it out of the ability to get to it easily. :-( I don't forsee it doing much damage, but any idea how much of a pain it would be to drop an oil pan on a Sunday (i.e is it a one day job for the average do-it-yourselfer?) And any idea what you would use in place of the cutting tool? Thanks again for the reply . . .

[IvoryJ30t]

you could do it in a day.

to seperate the pan, i would use a very thin metal blade, like a paint scraper or a plaster knife. try not to scratch the bottom of the block or the pan. i dont know if that motor uses a sealant, a gasket or both.

just take your time, dont rush, and obviously drain the oil first.

you should have a fsm or an idea of how to do it if you knew you need a cutter, so just follow the instuctions step by step.

[elbles]

Well, I guess I'm coming up on an oil change anyway . . . ;-)

Actually, I've been debating whether or not to do the whole timing chain job on my own, so if I do it myself, it will just be part of the process . . . in the short mean time, I hope it won't matter too much.

Oh, and just as a note, on the KA24E, there is no gasket, just the RTV. :-)

[IvoryJ30t]

you might want to consider doing it all at once then. gets stuff out of the way.

just take it one step at a time and dont get ahead of yourself. its all in the fsm, you gonna have to take all the belts off and the front cover and everything. if your gonna go that far, you might as well do the water pump as well, and replace all the belts and coolant hoses.

USE a torque wrench!! if you dont have one get one. there like $100 dollars and worth every penny. trust me, if your going to do your own auto work, you would much rather shell out for a torque wrench than helicoil a stripped bolt hole.

[elbles]

Thanks for the ideas, I really appreciate it. I have a copy of the FSM and everything, but I don't have a pulley puller, nor do I have much patience, so it might be better left to a mechanic, even if I have to pay a portion of it out of pocket (the warranty I have only covers up to $450, estimated cost ranges from $800-900). Thanks again for the helpful words!

[D1SR240]

werent FC3S second generationsand how did it fall all the way from the head down to the oil pan? how do you know it is all the way in the oil pan?

[IvoryJ30t]

no, hes considering the rx7, this happened to a 240.

[elbles]

Yeah, I was wrong, the FC3S is the 2nd generation RX-7, but I'm specifically looking at a S5 model, which is sort of like the change in 1991 for the 240 (i.e same model, different engine and other changes too).

And the half-moon did fall down in the 240 (thanks Ivory, :-)). The timing chain caught it for a while, but in my attempts to recover it, it fell down all the way . . . I can't even see it anymore, so I have to assume it's in the oil pan . . . the car runs OK, so I have to assume it's not a problem. Thanks for the replies!

[IvoryJ30t]

i just realized its most likely in the front timing cover. i got to caught up in the "taking the oil pan off" to realize its most likely not in there. its probably wedged in between the lower timing cover and the oil pump.

[D1SR240]

no, hes considering the rx7, this happened to a 240.

I know that this happened to the 240, i was just refering to waht he said about the rx7 : )

how could the half moon thing fall all the way down to the oil pan, i don't see how it could go all the way down there

[IvoryJ30t]

its not, its in the lower timing cover. see above post.

[elbles]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's in the lower timing cover . . . the only thing the FSM lists is the front cover (which is what I think you mean, or at least the lower portion of the front cover), but it definitely is not there. It was originally caught between the two sides of the timing chain, but fell further down upon my attempts to get at it. :-) I can't picture it being jammed between the front cover and oil pump, especially after having a look at the FSM . . . the car runs fine, or at least as well as the car can run with the timing chain rattling at idle. I'm just saying what appears to be listed in the FSM . . . if you have any comments/ideas, feel free to chime in. :-)

Oh, and on another topic that should probably be another thread, but when the timing chain starts to rattle, what is the usual/most common culprit? The tensioner seemed to work fine, though upon first removing the valve cover, there was quite a bit of slack in the chain on the driver's side of the engine, almost enough to hit the other side of the chain. I also saw bits of some sort of black material on parts of the chain, which I would imagine are pieces of guide, but I can't be sure on that. I didn't/haven't gotten the front cover off yet, so I can't comment on what's "down there", but if anyone has any ideas/comments on this, I'd appreciate it too. Thanks!

[NeverEnuff]

if you want an fc rx7 i wouldent recomend 89-91 thay have a bit more power but the motor doesent last as long ether and if you want a car to mod ether stick with the 240 or git a t2 rx7 if you wish to go that way

[NeverEnuff]

oh and 1st gen rx7s are also alot of fun

[elbles]

Thanks for the reply NeverEnuff . . . I read that the rotors in the S5 were done differently than those in the S4 (made them smoother in surface and lighter, IIRC), not to mention the 14 HP advantage. Why would the motor not last as long?

I don't really anticipate on modifying either the 240 or a FC, if I were to get one; I have heard the FC is a much better handling car, and it has the power advantage over the 240. There's a 89 S5 NA around here with 42,000 miles, which I think would make a good canidate for my next car, and you (as an owner of Rex's) would be qualified to offer some commentary on these cars . . . comparisons to the 240 in all areas, especially reliablility, would be appreciated. Thanks for the info!

[elbles]

Oh, and though I bet 1st-gens are a lot of fun, I'm not a fan of their looks as much as I like the FC's. :-)